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Old 06-26-2006, 09:06 PM   #26
Taz Rose
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Unhappy Take off assistance/trouble shooting

Hello

My names Taz and I am new to RC flighing.

I love flight and this hobby realy appeals to me.

I can't seem to get my plane into the air.
It is a RTF 3/4 channel, highwing trainer.
I am aware of balancing the plane and how to test its balance (fingertips 1/3rd from leading edge of wing, model should be staight or slightly inclinded at the nose? is this right?) and pre-flight checking. I have thosands of questions though.
I wondered why the transmitter/radio needs to be activated prior to connection of the battery to receiver inside the plane.Or is this just with some RTFs?
My particular sticking point is that i cant seem to get airbourne. I understand the physics of flight and the flight surfaces, how they work and what they do etc. but everytime i launch my plane by hand, it just nose dives after a second of forward flight, barely covering 3 meters.
I adjusted the planes C of G back, thinking there must be too much weight up front but the same thing happened.
Whilst at work today, giving advice to members of the public about Planning Permission, as i am a planning advice officer for my local authority, iam pondering away the problem. Is it me or the plane? What could it be about the plane, not wanting to believe its me (I have no experience with these things).
Maybe its the propellor, dragging the nose down? I wanted to test this today but it was raining when i came in from work and although its stopped, the grounds all wet, so here I am seeking help.
Sorry this is so long winded.

I asked the retailer about this, from where i purchased the model, an arrogrant sounding man with 40 years experience as he says and an unwilling/can't be bothered/ go away attitude. I wish Id gone somewhere else i think, but we live and learn hey?
Anyway, he told me my model was easy to fly, high wing for a good flight characteristic and that I should trim the model for more lift. I had read some of the initial posting here and have started thinking its me.
Any suggestions are realy welcome.

Many thanks in advance

Taz
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Old 06-26-2006, 10:00 PM   #27
AEAJR
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Originally Posted by Taz Rose View Post
Hello

I can't seem to get my plane into the air.
It is a RTF 3/4 channel, highwing trainer.
Any suggestions are realy welcome.

Many thanks in advance

Taz
First suggestion, is tell us what plane you are trying to fly. And what is a 3/4 channel plane?

If it is RTF, unless the manual said to balance it, it may come balanced and anything you do may hurt it.

This thread may be helpful.

Six Keys to Success
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208

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Old 06-27-2006, 01:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
First suggestion, is tell us what plane you are trying to fly. And what is a 3/4 channel plane?

If it is RTF, unless the manual said to balance it, it may come balanced and anything you do may hurt it.

This thread may be helpful.

Six Keys to Success
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208
I would also like to know what the name of the plane is? I have been in the same position as far as having a bad hobby man. Untill he was no longer the only one in town, now I have a great place to get all my hobbu stuff, and all the answer's I need to fly. Plus the guy will go out side with me and try it!!!
Good luck
Bry
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:38 PM   #29
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Question about GWS formosa. When it says CG at95mm from leading edgw+-. how far out from the fueselage do you go, is it right at the fuse or a few inches out. I am using a CG machine and can't figure where to put it on the wings
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:02 AM   #30
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I measure as close to the fuselage as possible when figuring CG.

Take care and thanks for posting at WattFlyer!!

Don
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:06 AM   #31
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Okay, thanks. I have done this(measured close to the fuse)with my formosa per their direction 95mm +-1. I set mine at 95 when in the air and I let off the throttle the plane nose dives, do I need to take some wieght of the front?
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:05 PM   #32
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Either the nose is too heavy or you have a trim problem at the h-stab/elevator.

I would suspect the tail. While you might want to move the CG back a bit, it should not dive on throttle release, it should glide.

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Old 07-05-2006, 08:34 PM   #33
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GWS give a range of 80mm to 100 mm from the leading edge of the plane. Lets say I get the formosa balanced within this range and when I let of the throttle it dives at a 70° angle. The horizontal stabilizer is straight and the elevators is straight , the H stab and elevator would not make it dive would it?......
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Old 07-05-2006, 08:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by goflyhighrc View Post
GWS give a range of 80mm to 100 mm from the leading edge of the plane. Lets say I get the formosa balanced within this range and when I let of the throttle it dives at a 70° angle. The horizontal stabilizer is straight and the elevators is straight , the H stab and elevator would not make it dive would it?......
Having the elevators straight and having the pitch be in trim aren't necessarily the same thing. Several of my planes like a little up elevator to fly trim. I'd focus more on the behavior in flight than the visual appearance of the control surface. BUT, if you have to crank in a lot of elevator to fly level, then I'd look at CG being too far forward...

The problem is that these things all work together, and it can be tricky sorting them out. In addition to pitch trim and CG, for some models (especially light foamies) any wind at all can dramatically change how it flies. It has taken me 4 or 5 flights to get my Funny Park trimmed right -- I think I had the CG a bit forward (my Multiplex planes fly better that way), and I think I didn't have the elevator centered well, and most of my first flights were in 3-5 mph winds. First few flights it would dive at 45 or 50 degrees when I pulled the power off. I tweaked the CG, tweaked the elevator trim, messed with the control linkage, and just got used to how a new plane flies (I just doesn't glide as well as the Multiplex high wings), and eventually sorted it all out, and now it flies great...

~~~~~~~~~~ let's go carve some air ~~~~~~~~~~
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Old 07-14-2006, 07:48 PM   #35
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As Instructor and coach, the new flyer will often come to you for advice on equipment. Often we tell people how they can save money on their first set-up. Sometimes used equipment is suggested. In fact I have purchased used equipment many times.

However I did some study on the subject to see what was the best advice I could give a new flyer in relation to the purchase of a first radio. Not in terms of feature/function, but in terms of cost. What follows is what I learned. You may find this helpful as you coach, advise new flyers.

=========================

New or Used? What should you buy if you are on a tight budget?

To put a plane in the air you will need servos, a receiver, some misc stuff
and of course, the radio. Let's see how the new packages shape up as
compared to buying a used radio and getting the servos and receiver/crystal
separately.

Just a few years ago, all radios were sold with standard servos and big
heavy receivers. One exception was the Hitec Flash 5SX which came with the
HS-81s and the Micro 555 receiver in what they called the glider package.
As a result this radio became very popular with electric flyers. But the
radio makers finally caught on and have started packaging more radios with
micro servos and micro receivers. I am only looking at packages with micro
servos and receivers that can be used in parkflyers or park gliders.

================
First, if you are planning to stay with small electrics/parkflyers, then go
for a Spektrum DX6. No channels pins to worry about, no channel conflict.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...?ProdID=SPM2460

$199 or less - Let's see how much the radio costs if you were to buy the
parts separately.

4 micro servos - perfect for small electrics -- $15 each - $60
1 micro receiver, no crystal required ------------------- $55
Misc other stuff in the package ------------------------ $20

These are all things you will want for you small electrics $135

So the radio, rechargeable batteries, and charger = $64 - That's all!

=============================
Now if you don't want the DX 6 because it won't fly glow or gliders, or
because you can't buy cheap FM receivers, then look at one of these. They
will all work with a short range 4 channel $29 GWS& crystal or a long range
5 channel $40 Hitec receiver & crystal for the next plane.

Futaba 6EXAS - $160
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...I=LXJUV7**&P=ML

3 micro servos--------------------------------$15 each $45
1 micro receiver + crystal for small electrics ------------ $70
Misc other stuff in the package ------------------------ $20

Total for components $135

Cost for radio, charger, battery = $25 for an 6 channel entry level computer
radio - WOW!
====================================
Maybe you like Airtronics better

Airtronics VG 6000 $170
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...&I=LXEUY5**&P=7

2 micro servos ------------------------------- $15 each $30
1 Micro receiver + crystal ------------------------------ $65
1 Electronic Speed Control ----------------------------- $25
Misc stuff --------------------------------------------- $20

$140 for the above - you are going to need them anyway!

Radio, charger, battery = $30 for an entry level 6 channel computer radio.
REALLY!
===========================
Maybe you want a little more feature rich radio

Hitec Optic 6 - $220
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hitec.htm

2 micro servos ----------------------------$15 each $30
Electron 6 micro receiver + crystal ( my favorite)---- $65
Misc other stuff in the package --------------------- $20

Total for components $115

Cost for radio, charger Battery = $105 Not bad for a midrange 6 channel
computer radio!

===================
I wanted to do a JR ,but could not find one with micro receiver and servos
=======================================


Or maybe you are trying to get started for the absolutely lowest price and
have very little to spend. You want to fly a 3 channel parkflyer or a 2-3
channel glider. You will definitely have to go used, right? Let's see.

Hitec Neon 3 channel FM radio, servos and receiver $59.99
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXLGF4**&P=7

The package includes 2 HS-55 servos ---------------$15 each = $30
Micro 05 receiver with crystal ------------------------------- = $40
Misc stuff in the package ----------------------------------- = $10

Contents of the package, if purchased separately - $80

Neon 3 ( uses regular batteries ) = FREE, and you saved $20 on the rest of
the stuff! You can buy the contents and throw the radio away!!!!
=================================================
Now, you can argue $5 or $10 either way with my analsyis, but it won't
change much. If you are looking for an entry level 6 channel computer
radio, these packages are a great value, and perhaps even better than used
prices. Each of these packages includes at least 1 year warranty and you
don't have to worry what someone else did to it. Now try to buy a
comparable radio, used, for less than this.

Any questions?

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Old 07-26-2006, 01:52 PM   #36
Tore Loodin
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Refill that coffee cup, this is a long one, but hopefully worth it.

Teaching Someone to Fly - Tools and Techniques
by Ed Anderson
AMA Introductory Pilot
aeajr on the forums

Help the new guys. Don't wait to be asked, go over and offer. Some people
are shy and most don't want to be a bother. I am asking you to go help the
new guys. They will be very grateful and you will make a new flying friend.
How bad could that be?

But what if you don't feel you know how to teach someone to fly. I can say
that I have seen some unselfish attempts go bad because the "teacher" didn't
really have any idea how to go about it. That was probably me, far too many
times. But after a while, if teaching is something you like, you get
organized and start to understand what the new flyer needs. Here is what I
have developed over time. What method you use may be dictated by your
preference or it may be limited by the equipment and resources you have
available. I will share what I typically do. I invite others to share
their approaches and methods so that more people can feel comfortable
helping new pilots learn to fly.

This is being written with new parkflyer pilots in mind as that is where I
have spent most of my teaching time. Most of them have had 3 channel R/E/T
planes with high wings and electric motors. I have also helped a few pilots
with their first gliders. I don't teach glow or gas, so others will need to
fill into those gaps.

I hope this encourages you and gives you confidence to reach out and help
the new guys.

RTFM

I always encourage new pilots to read the manual or documentation that came
with their planes. This is especially true if they have a plane that I have
not handled before. The manual always have good information and can provide
valuable reference material that can help the new pilot after they leave
your loving care.

If they have it with them I may take the time to go through it with them.
If they come to the field without their manual, I ask them to bring it the
next time. If they don't bring it again, I get annoyed. Usually by the
third time, it shows up, and I go through it with them. So often they are
suffering with a question, and the answer is right there, in front of them.
I have not hesitation to ask them if they checked the manual. After a
while, they know the question is coming, and may come to me with the manual
in hand. I consider that a good sign.

I also direct them to these forums as a source of help. If they are
e-mail users I will e-mail them links to useful sites and sources. I
include a series of links at the end of this discussion.


Terms and Expressions

Throughout your lessons, review terms and expressions. This is a new field,
a new skill and it has new terms and expressions. Some of these have become
familiar to you, but your student will be confused. Review things at every
lesson.

For example, when you say "up" do you mean to push the stick up/forward or
do you mean to pull the stick back to raise the nose of the plane? Tell
them, show them, and explain what will happen on the plane when they do this
on the radio.

When you say left, do you mean the pilot's left, the planes's left ( which
might now be the pilot's left ) or something else? I emphasize that I
ALWAYS mean the plane's left. No matter which way the plane goes, left is
the plane's left. I talk about projecting myself into the pilot seat in the
plane. Once I have that in their minds, then left becomes left all the
time.

What does "give it some down" mean? How much and do they hold it there or
just tap it?

You get the idea.


Check List

I have created check lists that I often give to the students to help them
formalize their routine upon arrival at the field. Full scale pilots use
them, so why not us? If you would like a copy, just ask. I am more than
happy to share them.


Wind

We always launch and land into the wind. I make sure they have a ribbon on
their radio to help them become aware of the direction of the wind. The
wind can be your friend, or it can be your enemy, depending on how you treat
it. I need them to think about the wind.

Always encourage the new pilots to fly in calm air and try to teach in calm
to mild air. Under 5 mph is best. If they have a real floater, even 5 mph
may be too much. Planes like the Slow Stick or the Slo-V, for example, are
great trainers. However, in the hands of a new flyer, 5 mph is practically
a hurricane. Planes like the Aerobird Challenger, the T-Hawk, the Sky Fly
and similar planes can be flown it more wind, but still calm is best. Be
sensative to this and encourage them to wait for calm air if they plan to
practice on thier own. They probably won't, so you can plan on teaching
some repair techniques next time.


Frequency Control and Range Check

I want to be sure we have a clear channel, so we discuss frequency
control, setting or taking of pins and the like. If we turn the radio on to
check the surfaces, I don't want to bring another flyer down. I want to
instill this habit early and reinforce it often.

Then we review the radio to be sure we have a common understanding of its
parts and uses. Many new students do not understand the use of the trims,
so this is often a topic of extended discussion. If all this goes well, we
get ready to fly.

This is followed by a radio range check. A range check must be performed
before the first flight of every plane, every time they come to the field.
Often this is described in the manual. RTFM!


Checking the Plane

I examine the student's plane along with him or her to review the
parts of the plane to be sure we are using common terms. Then we check
alignment, balance and the setting of the surfaces. Anything that must be
adjusted or repaired becomes an important part of the flight lesson. This
usually leads to a discussion about what should be in the student's tool
box.


Test Flight

I then ask the student's permission to take the plane up for a test flight
to be sure that all is working well. If I can't fly it, they certainly
can't fly it. So many times, the first thing that I learn is that they feel
there is something wrong with the plane. If all checks out, and I can
easily fly and land it. There is no more question about where the problem
lies, and that is important. :o

I talk through the process of checking wind direction to that take
off will be into the wind. We talk about preparing to hand launch or a rise
off ground take-off. We discuss preplanning the landing, landing into the
wind, as well as the landing pattern and the landing location.

On the climb out I discuss the importance of altitude. A plane belongs in
the air. My recommendation is that you should be above 50 feet when you are
new, about tree height where I live, unless you are preparing to land. Let's
call that one mistake high. I am normally teach much higher than that, say
3 times that height, or 3 mistakes high. This make some of them nervous.
This is something they must get past. Altitude is their friend and will
save their plane. Make them fly high.

During the flight I test the plane's glide and determine at what throttle
setting it will hold straight and level flight. Throughout the entire
procedure I am talking the new pilot through the flight to explain what I am
doing and why.


The Plane Knows How to Fly

At some point, if the plane is properly trimmed, I will set it on a straight
and level course, then hold my hands out wide to impress upon the student
that the plane will fly itself and that it is not necessary to manage and
correct every little movement of the plane. Assuming this is a trainer type
plane, I often put the plane into a gentle turn using the trims and let if
fly for 15 to 30 seconds with no contact with the sticks. This usually
reinforces the fact that we do not need to over control or over manage the
plane. It knows how to fly if we just leave it alone. I have been told by
my students that this demonstration was a real eye opener!

If it has a good glide, I will get the plane high, then turn the motor off
for an extended period of time to impress upon them that their plane can fly
without the motor. We discuss how it responds with the motor on and with it
off.


Landing

Finally I talk through landing procedures, the landing pattern, then I land
the plane. As we do not have a runway at our field,, planes will be landed
on grass so we discuss how this individual plane will behave when it touches
the grass. Most will not roll out but will hang in the grass. So we
discuss whether to use landing gear or to remove it and belly land the
plane.

After that we prepare for a first flight together where the student will be
involved in flying the plane. Before we launch, I describe how the flight
will go and what the student will be expected to do and how we will work
together to keep the plane under control.

Normally I launch, reach altitude, get it going level and straight then get
them involved. After a time, I land the plane and we discuss the flight. On
each subsequent flight, if they progress, they take on more and more. I
have had pilots progress to take off and landing in as little as an hour. I
had a 7 year old who, after 20 minutes and two flights this chid could
reliably manage a plane in the air after I got it to height. He flew and I
talked to his Dad, while I watched out of the corner of my eye. And, by
the way, he was flying MY plane. He was pretty good!

Gliding

We spend a fair amount of time gliding so that they do not panic if
the motor cuts out. I want them to understand how the plane's behavior will
change somewhat when the motor is off. There is less air over the surfaces,
so the plane will be slower to respond. Best to learn this under my
guidance than when they overfly the battery and suddenly have to land
without the motor. And, being a sailplane pilot myself, I may teach them to
thermal the plane.

That is about it. Anything beyond that is something
the student must request from me or other members of the club. Once they
can do this, they are solo.

My goal is not to make them pattern flyers. It is to get them to the point
that they can launch, climb, fly, glide, keep the plane in front of them,
line up and land safely. I will probably teach them a loop and a tail
stall. Some people need two hours. Some take a whole season. Some give up
and buy an RC car.


SHARING CONTROL OF THE PLANE

I will touch on two methods I have used. I am sure there are others.

Perhaps others will add their own approaches, tools and reference material.
I hope this is helpful both for those who are teaching and those who are
learning.


HAND ON HAND/PASS THE RADIO

Many new flyers are starting on low cost RTF electrics. Many of these
planes fly very well and make good first planes. Unfortunately the radios
don't have trainer/buddy box ports so you can't connect them to a flight
simulator on the computer and you can't connect them to the instructor's
radio to use the buddy system for flying. More on flight simulators and the
buddy system later.

So how do you teach someone to fly without a buddy box?

I am sure there are many methods. Here is one that I have used with adults
and with children as young as 7 years old. Regardless of age or gender, I
follow the same approach.


Hand on Hand

I launch and climb to height. I pull back to about 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.
I get it level and stable and then we begin sharing the flying task.

For adults, I have them stand to my right, off my right shoulder. I have
them reach around my right side to put their right hand on top of mine.

For children and young teens, I will have them stand in front of me. I will
bring the radio in front of them and have them place their right hand on top
of mine. These are usually single stick radios with a slide or lever
throttle. I maintain throttle control to maintain height and have them feel
how my hand moves as I manage the plane. I point out the speed and length
of the motion. I point out when I am controlling and when I am not.

After a minute or two, if they seem to be comfortable, I have them put their
hand on the stick and mine goes on top. I am still in control but now they
feel the stick as we move it. Gentle movement and easy flying is the goal.
If all goes well, I invite them to start to take control.

Once they demonstrate that they can keep the plane level and under control,
I will slowly lift my hand till they have it. I continue to control the
throttle. For some this is a moment of great joy, some panic and some never
even realize I have pulled away.

When it is time to land, I take over and land the plane. Then we discuss
the flight. This is where they usually start to breath again.
Hi folks!
Iám obeying the administrator´s request saying hello.

All of us crash a model now and then modyly of course due to the pilot´s misttakes. When I first time flew electrik using an ARF Coronet 400 I did a clumsy landing. the pinion in the gear loosened and had to be fastened at the motor axis with cyanolit. At the following flights the model spiralled in.
thinking that the radio malfunction I bought a new one. Again the model spiralled in. Then I began to intensly scrutinise the whole installation of the drive line. I then saw that the soldering on one of the motor terminals waws bad and only occational did contact the terminal. After resoldering I have never had any problem with the model, which flies beautifully. so my advice is: have e thoroughly scrutination at the electric installation after every hard "landing"
Cheers
Tore Loodin of Sweden
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:03 PM   #37
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Hi,
I can appreciate your tips on teaching. That is what the hardest part of teaching is to me. Making sure you and the student are on the same page, terminology wise.
I have been teaching full scale since 1977 and flying R/C since 1967.
I would like to share some thoughts with you on the landing if you are open to it.
First I don't consider my self as a no it all in aviation.
I do know that I have never had a student bust on a check ride since 1977.
Landings are my thing.
I decided to find the answer to the landing technique that would allow a landing day or night, one eye closed, where you couldn't feel the touch down. All you can hear are the wheels squeaking and then spooling up.
This same technique works on models to.
If you are interested in hearing, just email me at try-plan-b@tampabay.rr.com
I'm new to this site so till I learn how it works that would be the safest way to get in touch with me.
Thanks,
Ray Henry
User name Fairchild 24
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:33 PM   #38
Tore Loodin
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Default Teaching to fly

Hello Ray!.
I have flown RC since 50 years and tought a lot of people to fly RC. We had not doule control then, so I had standing close to the back of the pupil and push at his right fist to erect a dqngerous tilting model. When I first tried the double control the model went in as both of us thought that the other one waas in control. so ever since I used the stand behind approach! I now is a somewhat elder teenager in my eighties but still flying but now only electric models. What an relief only having to throttle up for starting the engine! And not having to trail an heavy start box. Onlly to carry a reserv prop and a little monkey wrench in the back pocket!
All the best to you all!
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:49 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Fairchild 24 View Post
Hi,
Landings are my thing.
I decided to find the answer to the landing technique that would allow a landing day or night, one eye closed, where you couldn't feel the touch down. All you can hear are the wheels squeaking and then spooling up.
This same technique works on models to.
If you are interested in hearing, just email me at try-plan-b@tampabay.rr.com
I'm new to this site so till I learn how it works that would be the safest way to get in touch with me.
Thanks,
Ray Henry
User name Fairchild 24
I sent you an e-mail.

I would be very interested, but I think the whole community would be interested. Please feel free to post it in the thread, but if you would prefer to send it to me, I would be happy to see it.

This thread is not about how I teach, but how teaching can be approached. I believe there are many paths to success. Mine is only one of them. Perhaps yours is better. Please feel free to share it.

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Old 11-01-2006, 05:39 PM   #40
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As part of the teaching process there are certain concepts the student must master or the whole flying thing ever really clicks.

The first is understanding how the wings lift, the tail turns and the motor, if it has a motor, drives the plane. This link does a good job of overviewing some of these points. It can get technical so it might not be right for all students but I think the instructors may find it helpful.

Forces in Flight
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index4.htm

The second key concept I work on with student pilots is STALL. Stall is not easily understood if you don't understand the concepts of lift. I think this link does a very good job of discussing this key concept. Again it gets technical but the diagrams can be helpful even if you get lost in the forumlas.

Stall and Spin
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index6.htm


I hope that teachers and students out there find these links helpful. Don't get lost in the forumlas. Go for the main concepts. If you are an engineer, there is pleanty of technical stuff to keep you happy. But don't over tech the new pilot or you will scare them off.

Clear Skies and safe flying.

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Old 12-02-2006, 09:38 PM   #41
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The best way to learn, is on the plane of a GOOD pilot.

NOTHING beats that.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:44 AM   #42
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A lot of good advices AEAJR.

I have teatched some newbies through the years, and I think the only relaxing way is the BuddyBox. And I prefer to use one of my own trainers for the first flights. Then I know everything works and my radioes are ready for teaching.
My Profi radioes (MPX) have the ability to choose which controllers the student get. So on the first flights I let the student get control on the rudders but not the engine. This way I can add or reduce power making sure the model don`t stall or worse: gain too much speed! At least for the first few flights until the student begin to do good figure eights.

When the student want to maiden his first plane of course we try to let an experienced pilot do the first flight to make sure it is trimmed and the throws suits. After checking range and balancing of course

The worst stage is when the student starts to do landings... I prefer that these are done from proper height with the engine off. Then I can forget the lefthand stick just keeping a finger on the teacher-switch and continuous correcting with my own righthand stick. If the student seems to loose control I have already began the correction and just flip the switch and glides in for landing.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:40 PM   #43
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Sounds like a very flexible training system. I think my 9C passes all controls or nothing but I never tried to do what you suggest. I can decide whether to pass mixes or not.

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Old 12-15-2006, 10:55 PM   #44
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Just had a look at this thread. Wow, Ed sure gave the message to Bry. THE WRONG MESSAGE. Bry goes to a club for a little advice, gets the get lost message and the best Ed can offer is join the club if you want some advice. Bry obviously went to the wrong club (was it your club Ed?).

What's happened now is Bry is pi$$ed off, teaches himself to fly and flys in a park or paddock down the road with the resulting frequency clash problems. Or does not have success with his model & collects stamps or something. Judging by Bry's polite, reasonable reply to the spray by ED my guess would be Bry would be an asset to any club he joins, an asset the first club he visited has missed out on.

I hope Bry (and others who get short shifted when they visit clubs) take this bit of advice - if the club that you visit does not make you welcome when you are an 'outsider' it's a club not worth belonging to as an 'insider'.
A club should be something that's good to be part of.

Ed takes the (considerable) time to pass on his words of wisdom on 'Helping People Learn to Fly'. That's good. If some of that time was spent making 'outsiders' welcome that would be better.

Considering Ed has moderator status it will be interesting to see how long my post remains posted. - John.
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:37 AM   #45
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John,

I am not sure what post you refer to but I appreciate your sharing your insights. I can certainly see your point of view on first impresssions of clubs. However my limited experience with clubs is that they are made up of people, and some people are very welcoming while other's are not.

In order to get a true feel for the club you need to gain exposure to many of the members before you pass judgement on them. Your first meeting might have been with the club grouch.

My first meeting with one club was pretty negative. I visited their field several times and spoke to several of the members before I decided that they were not for me.

My current club, at first was not all that welcoming because I came in flying electrics and they REALLY wanted me to train on gliders. But I had a friend in the club, so I joined.

Over the last 4 years the experience has been wonderful. I have brought in many new members and spend a lot of time teaching, which, of course, is what lead to this thread.

Clubs are made up of people. Don't judge all the people based on an encounter with one or two grumps.

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Old 12-16-2006, 10:51 PM   #46
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Post 18. Reading BETWEEN your lines I can see that you have been used by time wasters & those who would not join a club but are there for free information with no intention of joining a club anyway.

Don't judge all the people based on an encounter with one or two grumps.
Yes words of wisdom for sure, but worth applying to newbies as well. I'm a believer in human nature & that 90% of people are good people (thank goodness), most newbies will be genuine, need a hand and take up club membership if they feel welcome.

I'm not surprised you were not made that welcome if you turned up with an electric to an I.C. club - if you don't understand something it must be bad! 'Work of the devil', 'white man's magic', the old if 'if you can't see it, can't smell it' line, I've heard it all from the I.C. flyers. So who is using this new found mysterious source of power? Not the stuck in the mud old I.C. flyers. Yep, open minded modellers make up a few but mostly......newbies.
Be gentle with them Ed! John.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
Post 18. Reading BETWEEN your lines I can see that you have been used by time wasters & those who would not join a club but are there for free information with no intention of joining a club anyway..
Nothing between the lines of my posts. What I mean is what I say.


Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
Yep, open minded modellers make up a few but mostly......newbies.
Be gentle with them Ed! John.
Always!

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Old 12-17-2006, 09:11 PM   #48
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I have a copy of an old editorial by Norm Goyer (SRCM) where he points out that the success of the hobby depends on effective beginners programs. He also points out that clubs in Germany are REQUIRED to have a program, or they lose their charter and, likely, their flying field. This is what I have advocated for quite awhile for this simple reason: clubs, and their members, would certainly tune up their attitudes towards beginners!

I know of a number of clubs that welcome a beginner with the same enthusiasm as they would an irate skunk, or a bull moose in rut. Goodbye beginner. Wrong attitude!

Our "club" always had a program, and we had a failsafe trainer: MB's old Dragonfly, designed (if I remember correctly) by Tex Newman. I built one (actually there were 4 more built from the plans), installed an old 09 diesel, and a radio. It taught the basics, it flew EVERY time, and was almost impossible to crash (full-down dive must have been at least 18mph, plenty of time to correct with a gentle word like "No, THIS is up...)

If every club built one of these so that a beginner could try out the hobby before dumping a couple of hundred bucks (or pounds, or lire, whatever), any one of the club members could be the instructor. I taught people from 8 to 80 to fly on the ol' Dragonfly, without it interfering with my own flying very much.

Time to put the egos aside, guys, and invest in this hobby, and stop treating beginners like an infestation.
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Old 01-06-2007, 03:15 AM   #49
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Ed,

I have just read your article, I realize that its main focus is toward instructors and more experienced flyers. But I tell you I have certainly picked up some more information that keeps me on the right path during my learning more about the hobby. ( you know, the "I can't believe I made that mistake again" arrgh.) Thanks for the considerable time you have put into this and the other info we receive.

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Old 01-06-2007, 04:10 AM   #50
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I knew that many new flyers would read the article and pick up tips. Understanding how teachers teach will help students learn. It was intended to work that way.

Glad it is helping you.

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