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Old 07-31-2009, 10:18 PM   #101
pattern14
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Default some thoughts.......

Hi Aeajr, interesting thread, lots of opinions and good advice. Self taught, then taught my son's to fly The nearest club is quite a distance, and we live in semi isolation in NW Tasmania, so lots of things are done in a self sufficient way. The nearest town has the same problems most rural towns face- unemployment, limited interests for the young, and opportunities that seem to be gradually diminishing. While I am a health professional, I am no social engineer, but I have had a seed of interest slowly germinating. Creating an informal group to teach and encourage flying would surely attract some people to the hobby, but to go about it the best way is still eluding me. Money would be the biggest barrier, as just getting started would be daunting for a lot of young prople with low income families. I thought about a school programme, but the red tape is hideous. and combining with some already organised sporting club involves politics, and the inevitable dealing with council for accessable flying areas i.e indemnity, noise regulations etc. The only real alternative at this stage would be allowing people to use my planes and radio's to learn on, and seeing if it takes off (ha ha) I also considered using my own design epp trainers solely for instuctional purposes, and teaching others how to build from foam. Most locals would not have $500.00 to fork out on the arfs they sell in the LHS (something that could be destroyed in 10 seconds), but they could afford to fly and crash and fly again on a home made epp pusher- and maybe the manual arts dept. could be involved.......it is still just a thought right now.....cheers


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Old 08-02-2009, 05:38 PM   #102
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Your problem seems to be universal in scope. There is no easy solution. I live one way 25 to 40 miles from the nearest lhs and flying field and have problems with getting info let alone answers that I need on clubs. I have invested in (both electric fliers) a Cub J3 from parkzone and a Hobbico Beechcraft Staggerwing which I promptly crashed on first flight. I have repaired the Staggerwing and have had great support from Hobbico.
The problem with starting out seems to be that there are no vendors / manufacturers / sponsors that want to offer help to the beginners because of the need for them to get a return on their investment in a new venture. Sponsering even a world class pilot has a lot of involvement by all parties and sometimes it just is not pretty to watch.
So I guess that there is only the support from other people that would wish you well and I hope that there is something that can be done to help except for a GOVERNMENT BAIL OUT or such I would hate to see this passion for the hobby/ lifestyle get snarled up in any red tape or rules that enslave the pilots!
I will be thinking of you and offering my support even if it is not financial.
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:42 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Hi Aeajr, interesting thread, lots of opinions and good advice. Self taught, then taught my son's to fly
Those are lucky boys to have a Dad who takes an interest in them and recognizes how much can be learned by spending quality time with them.

Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
The nearest club is quite a distance, and we live in semi isolation in NW Tasmania, so lots of things are done in a self sufficient way.
Start your own club. It can be informal. The best way to have your boys invite a friend. You help them to learn. Drag the Dad or Mom down and see if you can get them interested.

Clubs don't have to be big or complicated or expensive. A club is just a bunch of people who have a common interest.


Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
The nearest town has the same problems most rural towns face- unemployment, limited interests for the young, and opportunities that seem to be gradually diminishing. While I am a health professional, I am no social engineer, but I have had a seed of interest slowly germinating. Creating an informal group to teach and encourage flying would surely attract some people to the hobby, but to go about it the best way is still eluding me.
Well, let's face it, this is not the cheapest activity around. If your area is this depressed, with everyone hanging on by the edge, then promoting RC is probably not a good idea. Even if you get them interested there will be no ability to sustain. Now you have frustrated kids. Under these circumstances I would not suggest trying to start up a program. Find some less constly activity. Most sports are cheaper then RC Flying. Soccor/football is about as cheap as you can get.

But if you still want to pursue this, then let's explore some options.


Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Money would be the biggest barrier, as just getting started would be daunting for a lot of young prople with low income families. I thought about a school programme, but the red tape is hideous. and combining with some already organised sporting club involves politics, and the inevitable dealing with council for accessable flying areas i.e indemnity, noise regulations etc.
If you give up before you try then you never give people the chance to say yes. You can talk to the clubs and schools and have a chance of success. Or you can chose not to try and be guranteed of failure.

Your choice.


Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
The only real alternative at this stage would be allowing people to use my planes and radio's to learn on, and seeing if it takes off (ha ha) I also considered using my own design epp trainers solely for instuctional purposes, and teaching others how to build from foam.
Have you ever considered gliders? No motors, no battery chargers, not motor batteries. Cheap to build. 2 channels is all you need so the radios can be dirt cheap.

I started on a 3 channel Aerobird. Today I spend 90% of my time flying gliders, no motors at all.


Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Most locals would not have $500.00 to fork out on the arfs they sell in the LHS (something that could be destroyed in 10 seconds), but they could afford to fly and crash and fly again on a home made epp pusher- and maybe the manual arts dept. could be involved.......it is still just a thought right now.....cheers
I don't know the translation of your $ to the US $ or what things cost there but if it cost me $500 to get started I probably would not be flying today either and I am not financially disadvantaged. I don't know where you get your numbers but they don't make sense to me.

I start people off for $100 to $150 US all the time, including everything. If they have the money, then about 275 really gets them started well.

That includes EVERYTHING!


So, if you live in a deep poverty area, then I strongly suggest you avoid RC flying as a project for the area. However if you area is like most, with some poor, some rich as most being somewhere in between, then it might be worthwhile to start a club. And gliders are the lowest cost way to get such a club started.

Again, I will quote US$ with some examples.


Tower Vista - $59 ( often on sale )
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXLGM5&P=ML
Futaba 3 channel radio - $55
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXAAD7**&P=7

$114 Per pilot +$10 for batteries for transmitter/receiver.


Hi-start - $65 - Only one needed for a bunch of pilots.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE636&P=7


Now you have a complete set-up. Add a few AA and AAA batteries and you are all set. No battery chargers. No motor batteries, no noise.
Now you are all set for thermal soaring or slope soaring.



Or go electric

Sky Fly 2 - complete RTF - $99
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ly%3C%2FB%3E+2
Spare battery - I think this will fit - $17
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGLP7&P=7

Per Pilot - $116.

So I don't know where you get this $500 ARF from. But perhaps this is a currency conversion thing.

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Old 08-03-2009, 11:24 AM   #104
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Default to clear a few points up.........

Hi AEAJR, Thanks for the input- a few Ideas was what I was after. I obviously gave a poor Impression of Tasmania- what I said is endemic of most rural areas. If farming communities had full employment, diversity and cultural centres, no-one would leave for the cities. It is a little hard to use the term "depressed" for one of the worlds most pristine and uncluttered area's. But to the point....... What we do not have is an established aero modeling scene. Prices are vastly inflated and there is little back up for someone starytng out. Sure you can buy cheaper than $500.00 aud but it is generally the poor quality junk from Taiwan. You know what I mean- glitchy radio's, servo's that strip, airframes that are not straight etc. Read my thread on "perseverence pays off". The price I quoted is what someone I know paid for an easyglider ( "learn on a glider" he was told) with a 1/2 way decent radio and electronics, batteries and a proper charger (plus the exorbitant postage and handling from mainland Australia). Tried to learn to fly in the atrocious weather around here and literally destroyed it. Repaired the plane, but another $100.00 plus for busted electronics, motor etc. Very disheartening for a novice with no instructor. So what i would like to do is build some pusher type epp planes, with the couple of spare Futaba radio's I have and some spare electics etc, and see if I can do something to help.. If "Failure" was in my vocab, I would NOT have been self taught, and then taught my son's, learned to build from foam, drawn plans and so on. You in the U.S have a vastly more established and comprehensive R/C scene, with a massive array of competively priced and available aircraft. If Frustration comes from not being able to afford a plane, what does paying out hundreds for flying eggshells come under? As this thread stated, I just want to help people learn to fly I will let you know how I get on ....Regards, Michael
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:22 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Hi AEAJR, Thanks for the input-

snip.....

As this thread stated, I just want to help people learn to fly I will let you know how I get on ....Regards, Michael
Thanks for the clarification Mike.

Your discussion would fit better somewhere else. This thread is about instructional techniques. Whether one uses a buddy box or not. What order in which to teach skills, and the like. What do you do when a new guy shows up at the field with a plane. How do you approach teaching him to fly.

From the first post:

Help the new guys. Don't wait to be asked, go over and offer. Some people
are shy and most don't want to be a bother. I am asking you to go help the
new guys. They will be very grateful and you will make a new flying friend.
How bad could that be?

But what if you don't feel you know how to teach someone to fly. I can say
that I have seen some unselfish attempts go bad because the "teacher" didn't
really have any idea how to go about it. That was probably me, far too many
times.


I think you have a worthwhile project in mind but you have placed your question in the wrong place. So I suggest you start a new thread. Call it "starting a club" or "looking for help in designing a foam trainer". I am sure there are many who will be glad to help.

But this is not the right place for your question.

Good luck with your project.

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Old 08-03-2009, 09:38 PM   #106
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Default on a brighter note...

Hi AEAJR, no problemsThis thread got pretty sidetracked a few pages back with the "us and them" thing regarding clubs and learning to fly etc. It actually did appear to be the most appropriate thread to voice something I had been thinking about. And to give a positive note, the organiser of the local "Steamfest", an annual country fair, asked me in the last 24 hours if we would be interested in giving a display at the next show. Insurance and council regulations are covered. That would give me the opportunity I have been searching for-providence or what?All that aside, I am paying close attention to the instuctional techniques discussed, as it is something I will need more knowledge in to apply on a practical level. Learning never ends And Gofer303, thanks for your input also, and good luck with your flying....cheers...........
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:38 AM   #107
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smart...
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:45 AM   #108
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Don't get lazy.

As the instructor/coach, the new pilot depends on you for guidance and inspiration. But as we become settled in our ways we can get sloppy. I did and it caused a crash. Not only was my new Radian broken but I had upset and discouraged my student. Let my failure be your warning.

I got a new Radian electric glider. This plane is so easy to fly and so stable that it is now my primary introduction airplane. It has plenty of power, but can be flown with the motor off most of the time. The benefit is that the pilot gets LOTS of stick time. You can keep a Radian in the air for over an hour on a single 1300 mah pack.

Because you can glide along with the motor off the student has lots of time to think and to react. The stress of a plane moving along at 30 mph is taken away by a slow moving glider that floats along at 10 mph. And you can use less space because the plane can fly so slowly. And it will practically land itself if there is little wind.

The plane is so easy to fly that I failed to properly prepare my student. I got lazy.

I did not thoroughly go over all the details of how the radio works, what the surfaces do and how to handle the plane. I gave a very brief intro and then launced the plane. I got it up to 100 feet, did some quick demos then handed over the radio. I did not do my usual hand on hand work. Big mistake.

The student did fine for a while. He was very comfortable and was doing well, till he stalled the plane. I had let him get too low, around 50 feet. When the nose dropped he panicked, hit the throttle and pushed the stick forward to take the plane up. OOPS, wrong way.

The plane did a power dive into the ground and tore the nose off the plane. It was ugly.

The Radian, being foam, took it in stride. The repair took about an hour in my home workshop. Most of that time was spent checking alignment and fitting pieces of foam before I glued anything. CA and kicker did the trick.

Sure, my plane was damaged, but more importantly I had shaken my student's confidence. It was my fault, not his. I gave him too much responsability too soon.

Fortunately I had another plane and insisted he go back up. But this time I did it right. I gave him full preparation. I took him through all the steps and I made sure he never got below 100 feet.

I also made if VERY clear that the mistake was mine, not his. I explained what I had done wrong and the steps I had skipped. As the instructor it was my job to see he was properly prepared and that he did not get too low. It was my mistake, not his.

As instructors it is our responsibility to be sure they are properly prepared. And if we fail to meet our obligation, we can end up with a broken plane. But more importantly we can end up discouraging a student who looks to us as their guide and mentor.

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Old 10-08-2009, 01:14 AM   #109
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Default Responsibility and confidence

Hi Ajear, inspirational to see someone shoulder the blame when things go wrong. Far too many of us try to blame something or someone else when this happens. When I taught my first son to fly, I did it with an S and B "Komet", a near scale delta warbird. This incredible plane would appear, on paper, to be a poor choice, as opposed to a cub or traditional glider. However, it's flying characteristics and near indestructability made it a perfect choice in retrospect. I know they are not common in the U.S, but you can build them as a slope soarer, brushed, brushless, and even rocket powered Slow or as fast as you can go. They have school programmes on the Australian mainland, where groups of Children/teenagers build and fly these planes with phenominal success. My son's confidence has a great deal to do with the planes ability to hit the ground while attempting the next skill level, and not spend the rest of the day fixing it. I am not pulling your leg- it just bounces 40 crashes and still going strong. My youngest crashed an electric sailplane once, and broke a wing, then crashed a generic arf with similar results. It was not until I made him a flying wing pusher in the same style as the Komet, that he shook off his nerves. I am not a parkzone fan at all, but it is really ignorant to rag someone elses's choice of planes. Good to hear the Radian was easily fixed though, but it is very disheartening when the plane crashes AND breaks. Threw in a picture of his Trainer for good measure... all the best, Michael


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Old 11-13-2009, 01:20 PM   #110
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I have a new student, a young man of 9 years. I am using an RTF Radian to teach him to fly. After my sloppy performance as an instructor, documented two posts ago, I did this one right. And my student is doing very well.

His Dad, an experienced pilot, has worked with him a bit, but come over to me later and said that maybe it is best if a non-family member do the inital teaching. So now Dad watches, with great pride, as his son becomes a pilot, like his Dad.

Last session I had the young man land the Radian himself. Dad asked him how he felt about it.

The boy wants his own Radian! Dad is pleased.

Man I enjoy this!

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Old 03-10-2010, 04:26 PM   #111
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Default What the heck am I doing wrong?????

I cant get my new PZ T-28D up. It is balanced, trimmed, control services look good. I can fly my radian and BNF Super Cub pretty good. I always do ground takeoffs to monitor its behavior as it goes airborne. It always goes up 3 feet, goes inverted and crashes upside down....ugh!


I want to get this faster aileron plane going!!

What the heck am I doing wrong?




Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Pass the Radio

After 2-4 flights, typically, I can climb, level, set the throttle and then
pass them the radio. When it is time, I land. By the third flight I want
to start to teach them how to control altitude with the throttle rather than
the elevator. For many this is easy and for some it is very hard. Unless
we are doing stunts, I teach very gentle use of the elevator except to
recover from mistakes.

Recognizing and recovering from stalls is next. What is a stall, why the
plane stalls and how to handle a stall becomes a key lesson. Many have
trouble with this, but many get it quickly.

These are light planes and a head wind can push the nose up leading to a
stall. This can often be followed by too much up trying to recover, leading
to a worse stall. I try to teach them to be proactive in this situation
and not wait for the plane to stall. The phrase I use is "push to level"
if the nose comes up too much and a stall in imminent. If they do stall, to
use a little down elevator, gain some speed, then "pull to level". I don't
want them depending on the throttle to handle stalls.

Most of the trainers will recover nicely if you let them. So, if they get
into trouble, I teach them to pull back on the throttle and center the stick
to give the plane a chance to recover. In most cases the planes will
recover and they can resume flying. But if the plane is going to crash, cut
the power, Cut the Power, CUT THE POWER!

They can reduce the damage of the crash by about 75% if they hit with the
motor off. For most foam or plastic planes, this is enough to avoid
extensive damage or the need for extensive repairs. This is a good place to
discuss tape and epoxy. For balsa planes or Elapor planes, if something
breaks, we learn about CA.

From this point on we pass the radio as needed. I try to stay close, but
more and more I want them to recover from the bad situation. Mostly I have
to help them if they have trouble keeping the plane up wind. If the plane
gets down wind, then I may ask for the radio to get the plane back over the
field. No need to teach them about searching for a plane in the woods.
That lesson will come on its own.

Take offs are usually hand launch and landings are usually glides or 1/4
throttle affairs into a belly landing as we have no runway. Loops and
tail stalls are the last thing, then they are on their own. For some, this
whole process is two hours. For others it takes a few more sessions.

I try to have a lesson that lasts at least two hours and I have done 4 hour
sessions. In 30 minutes to 1 hour, too little is retained and too little
gets practiced. My goal, and frankly my joy, is to get them flying on their
own. For that they need supervised stick time. With two hours, two
chargers, theirs and mine, and at least 3 battery packs, sometimes also
mine, we can get in a lot of flying. I have had students go totally solo in
two hours. It is rare, but it does happen.

These three channel, high wing planes are pretty easy to fly. If it is a
pusher design, they can take some pretty serious hits without going to the
building table. These quick learners just need a little guidance. They
pick it up quickly and can then go off on their own to practice. We will
usually meet again and again at the field and I am always available for
help.

However most need more than one session and some still need help after five
sessions. That's OK, but at some point either they will get it or I will
try to hook them up with another instructor. Sometimes it is not the student
but the teacher that needs changing. That's OK with me. Not everyone can
work with me or my style and another coach is really the best thing I can do
for them. Usually I put this in the context of "being ready for more
advance lessons". I want them to see this as graduation, not rejection.


THE BUDDY BOX

Probably one of the greatest developments for teaching new flyers is the
buddy box system. I am only going to touch on the difference from this to
the method above. The lesson content is the same.

This is a method by which the instructor's radio is
connected to the student's radio. In typical fashion, the instructor will
take off and get the plane to height. Once the plane is stable, the
instructor flips a switch or holds a button and the student's radio now has
control of the plane. If the student gets in trouble, the instructor
releases the switch and takes control of the plane.

The advantage of this method is that the student can actually fly their
plane with a real radio under real conditions and the instructor has the
opportunity to save the plane, thus avoiding crashes. This is a very
effective tool and is commonly used as part of club training programs.

Typically it is best to have the instructor's and student's radio be of the
same brand. This way you can use a buddy cord/trainer cord that is
defiantly compatible between the two radios. However there are combinations
of brands that will work, if you use the right cord. For example, Futaba
and Hitec radios can generally be used in combination, if you use the right
cords. I have seen Futaba/JR cords as well. Whatever you use, be sure that
it is approved by the radio makers, otherwise you risk damaging the radios.
If you have a buddy/trainer port on your radio, the manual probably lists
approved cords.

There are also dedicated buddy boxes. These are not operational radios, but
rather shells of radios. Their sole function is to be the second control. Using one
of these the student will often retain the radio and the buddy box so they can
present it to whichever instructor is available.

If you are adventurous and willing to explore the make up of buddy cords,
this is a resource I have seen many people reference:
http://users.belgacom.net/TX2TX/somr-gb.htm

This FAQ from Futaba may be helpful in learning more about the buddy box
approach to flying.
http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/faq-training.html

I am not going to go into an further detail on the buddy boxes and training
methods as I have rarely used this method. The reason is that most of my
students don't have radios that were capable of using this method. So we
had to use the hand on hand and pass the radio method above.


THE FLIGHT SIMULATOR

A flight simulator, running on a personal computer, controlled by the
student's actual radio system has go to be one of the best aids available for
learning to fly. It is not a teaching method in and of itself, but it is a
great practice tool. It allows the new pilot to get a feel for the radio
and to begin to establish the hand/eye coordination needed to fly an RC
plane. I am not going to go into flight sims except to
encourage all new pilots and trainers to get a flight simulator and use it
as part of your learning/teaching process.

Here is a thread on getting started with FMS, a free flight simulator:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3893

In Conclusion

So, broadly speaking, that is the approach I use. There is a lot more
content that is shared with the student, that is not my point. The approach
and methods are what I was trying to share. But, of course, your mileage
will vary. Whatever you do, please take time to help the new pilots. Offer
your time and your good council. You will enjoy the experience and make a
new friend in the process. So, what could be so bad about that?

Clear skies and safe flying!



Resources:

6 keys to Success for New Flyers
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18

Tips for instructors
http://www.palosrc.com/instructors/teachrc.htm

AMA Tips
http://www.modelaircraft.org/0703_4.asp

Suggested steps to be taught
http://www.arcconline.com/flight-instruction3.htm

Teaching by Mike Lynch
http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/BegInfo/TeachRC.html

Teaching others how to fly
http://www.buckrc.com/html/teaching_guide.html

Flight Schools
http://www.rockcityrcflyingschool.com/

Learning Tips from Hobby-Lobby
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/howto.htm

BOOKS

Basic Flight Instruction Book
By: Andrew S. Rosz
http://www.radiocontrolmodelaircraft.com/bfibook/bfibd.htm

The RC Airplane Instructor & Student Handbook
Lt. Col. Robert A. (Bob) Morris
http://home.earthlink.net/~colbobmorris/
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:43 PM   #112
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Default

Are the ailerons going the correct direction?


My routine before flying EVERY battery.

1) Stand behind plane
2) Look a left aileron and say left while moving the aileron stick left. It should rise toward you. glance at the right aileron and make sure it's doing the oposite of the left.
3) look at the right aileron and say right while moving the aileron stick right. it should rise toward you. glance at the left aileron and make sure it's doing the opposite.
4) look at the elevator and say up while pulling back, it should go up.
5) look at the elevator and say down while pushing forward, it should go down
6) look at the rudder and say left while pushing left, it should go left.
7) look at the rudder and say right while pushing right, it should go right.
8) look at the motor and say throttle while quickly bumping the throttle up just enough to get the propeller spinning.


This procedure has caught reversed ailerons more than once for more than one pilot who wasn't doing it right.

Don't just check that the surfaces move, check that they move the right direction on every battery.

Always do it in the same order, while SAYING the direction. It does prevent mistakes.

I wanna be a pirate. Arrrrr

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Old 03-10-2010, 04:44 PM   #113
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Also make sure your not stalling it out, it sounds like you might be stalling, try for a shallower takeoff path.

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Old 03-10-2010, 05:18 PM   #114
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When I crash like that I find that my transmitter was setup for the wrong plane. Reversing the controls will cause instant crashes. Normal flying has you jam the controls to try to advert the crash, but in reality you are making it worse. Wham, it happens so quick.

I try to remember to look at my control surfaces as a preflight check.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:12 PM   #115
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Thanks everybody....I had the ailerons backwards, after check three times. The checklist is very helpful those new to ailerons. Is it possible to over accelerate
? Or go full power?
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:53 PM   #116
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Full power? Well it depends. If things are amiss full power will make it happen faster. Wham is quicker and more inetense with full power. But if I just took the controls from someone who's about to crash my plane I usually give it plenty of power to make sure I give my control surfaces plenty of air to bite in to. Without full power I could not swoop out of some near fatal crashes.

Full power? My eyes and reactions are getting so bad that when my brother's jet goes full brushless power my reactions are just too slow for the high speed. :o
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:59 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by constantCrash View Post
Are the ailerons going the correct direction?


Always do it in the same order, while SAYING the direction. It does prevent mistakes.

Oh how wise thou are. Oh how I did crash and spend on repairs because of not heeding this piece of flying lore.
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:42 PM   #118
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Just a quick follow-up.....Got the ailerons right and up it went, so effortless. About 1/2 throttle got it up. Very stable at low speed. That brushless motor can really go and so quiet. I ended up hitting a tree but I am happy none the less. Thanks Again.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #119
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Glad to hear you got it figured out.

You really have to be careful of trees. they HATE planes, they do everything they can to reach out and grab them. I think trees are envious that planes can fly and they can't.

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Old 03-11-2010, 10:52 PM   #120
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Let's get this discussion back on topic.

The topic is the methods and techniques for teaching people to fly.

I like the check list. That looks like a very useful tool.

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Old 03-12-2010, 12:09 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by constantCrash View Post
Are the ailerons going the correct direction?


My routine before flying EVERY battery.

1) Stand behind plane
2) Look a left aileron and say left while moving the aileron stick left. It should rise toward you. glance at the right aileron and make sure it's doing the oposite of the left.
3) look at the right aileron and say right while moving the aileron stick right. it should rise toward you. glance at the left aileron and make sure it's doing the opposite.
4) look at the elevator and say up while pulling back, it should go up.
5) look at the elevator and say down while pushing forward, it should go down
6) look at the rudder and say left while pushing left, it should go left.
7) look at the rudder and say right while pushing right, it should go right.
8) look at the motor and say throttle while quickly bumping the throttle up just enough to get the propeller spinning.


This procedure has caught reversed ailerons more than once for more than one pilot who wasn't doing it right.

Don't just check that the surfaces move, check that they move the right direction on every battery.

Always do it in the same order, while SAYING the direction. It does prevent mistakes.
Yes,
I think that checklist is a good idea for any of us. Especially me!

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If it ain't broke, I'll fix it till it is.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:18 AM   #122
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Default Another issue with the same T-28D

I repaired the plane just out of the tree. I was testing everything and found a problem with the throttle. I do the checklist and when I get to the throttle it wont start some of the times. It puts off a high pitch sound. And sometimes when it is going, I back the throttle to zero and the prop still spins at low speed.

The reason I ended up in the tree was that the T-28D would not slow to a stop after landing. I thought it was me. The plane landed and kept going skimming on the ground. As it headed for the curb I gave it throttle and climbed very steep. Just as I got under control couldnt avoid the tree.

So it might not be me.

Is the esc defective?

thanks
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:46 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by MUDGE View Post
I repaired the plane just out of the tree. I was testing everything and found a problem with the throttle. I do the checklist and when I get to the throttle it wont start some of the times. It puts off a high pitch sound. And sometimes when it is going, I back the throttle to zero and the prop still spins at low speed.

The reason I ended up in the tree was that the T-28D would not slow to a stop after landing. I thought it was me. The plane landed and kept going skimming on the ground. As it headed for the curb I gave it throttle and climbed very steep. Just as I got under control couldnt avoid the tree.

So it might not be me.

Is the esc defective?

thanks
Mudge,

I realize you are new to the forum so the idea of being on topic may not be clear to you. Just something that you need to learn.

If you look at the title and the first post of this thread you will see that the topic of this discussion is about methods for teaching people how to fly. It is a discussion where instrctors discuss and exhange ideas about how we teach people to fly.

Your posts are completely off topic and really don't belong here.

I suggest you start a new thread that addresses your specific questions.

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Old 04-01-2010, 07:03 PM   #124
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SARG5, From NC, Kansas
Two subjects going on here. One is getting an airplane and learning to fly.
The second is a RC field to fly at.
Let me deal with the second. The flying field
I know that I am out here in what we love to call FLY OVER COUNTRY. Other words, no one cares about us anyway.\
My local flying club has [like many cluby]. Had a problem keeping a place to fly. Something is always comming up. The causes are many. You know most of them.
So -- I went out here on MY FAMILY farm. Along with several of the local RC flyers. Found an good looking flying location just off a very good road on my farm.
1. Got the big BRUSH HOG MOWER out and mowed the tall grass down.
2. We do not have trees to deal with on this location
3. Raked the high grass off the field
4. Got the 54 in. riding mower out and mowed everything down to about 1 in.
5. Every thing looked great.
6. The area was 120 yards long. 90 yards wide main runway with a 90 yard by 60 yard cross runway.
7. Having to haul in some good dirt to fill in some of the low spots.
8. Built a good metal gate. Off set the gate about 40 feet off the roadway, for safety. NOTE; GATE DOES NOT HAVE A LOCK.
9. Built two wood run up stands
10. Found two large round wood cable spools for flyers to work off of
11. Put up a wind sock
REQUIREMENTS
THERE WILL NOT BE A ORG. FLYING CLUB.
YOU MAY FLY BY INVITE ONLY
YOU MUST BE A CURRENT MEMBER OF AMA
COME, FLY AND HAVE FUN
[You see, I am a Retired Army 1SG, 28 years., and an Retired KANSAS HIGHWAY PATROL SGT. 28 years. You see. I do not have a problem with showing someone who is not helping out or flying unsafe, or just being an A HOLE, where the gate is.

EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THESE RULES. NOTHING IN WRITING.

To this point in time everyone is helping out. The RC field is still work in progress. Planting more grass and a little more dirt filling in this spring. Looking great. Yes, we are in the pasture. Have two pitch forks to get the cow poop off the field. Still working on the little ground critters. We are having fun.
NOW, NO EVERYONE HAS A FAMILY FARM. Look around. See if you can find a adequate site on a farm that could be used. I know that every farmer will not let you in. But give it a try. You never know untill you ask. I do think the big clue is KEEP IT SIMPLE, Keep it safe, Keep the farmer happy.
AS I said. There is not a lock on the gate. Everyone knows that if the gate is left open and those high dollar bulls and cows get out. There is going to be HELL to pay.
The farmer needs to understand this.
GIVE IT A TRY, SEE WHAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH. Oh yes, I am 11 miles out of a little town of Russell, Puo. 4000.
FLYING AND SEEING THE COUNTRY WE DEFEND.

Follow up note. About 60 miles south of me is the town of GREAT BEND, Ks. They have had the same problem of keeping a flying location. As we speak. They are building a HIGH DOLLAR field. With paved runway. Will be AMA qual.I think. YES, IT IS ON A FAMILY FARM. What more can I say.

Let me know if you have more ideas.
FLYING THE COUNTRY WE DEFEND

SARG 5
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:43 AM   #125
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Default getting there slowly...

Been some months since my last post in this forum, but it is slowwwwwly coming together. The aerial display at the local fair stirred some interest, and lots of people asked questions and were impressed at the agility of the "foam electrics". The vast majority still associate r/c with noisy glow engines and balsa, so it was pretty new to most of them. What is more to the point is my nearest neighbours( on rural adjoining properties some distance away) have now expressed an interest in learning to fly, or "have a go" as they put it. As I may have mentioned before, there is little choice in suitable trainers at a decent price, but i have decided to build something a little different for beginners. The Tasmanian weather is an even bigger factor than the lack of r/c outlets, and effectively rules out Super cub type trainers due to their inability to fly in poor weather. Just my observation. My experimental luftwaffe jets and pushers are the opposite, but tricky to learn on. So I am putting together a slow, flying wing pusher that refuses to tip stall, break, or otherwise self destruct on the first lesson. I know everyone says "easystar", and I understand why, but the wind blows at over 20 knots for 10 months of the year. That effectively rules out trainer planes for a start, and even the few and far between clubs only fly "weather permitting". The epp prototype should be ready in about two weeks ( work really gets in the way of life at times), and I am thinking of making a smaller version as well if successfull. The reality is if you want to fly r/c here, you just have to get used to doing it in the middle of a gale. Teaching my 70 y.o neighbour will be interesting though...........
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