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Old 05-16-2010, 06:11 AM   #126
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These guys have an EPP flying wing design they use as a trainer. They claim it's almost indestructable.
http://www.utahflyers.org/index.php?...tpage&Itemid=1

Visit my homepage! Have A Good One!

Robert
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Old 05-17-2010, 03:54 PM   #127
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I wanted to add this link to the Ragland method for teaching. This is the basis of what I use.

Teaching using the Ragland Method - Hand on hand
http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/..._technique.htm

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Old 11-11-2010, 11:26 PM   #128
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Default the learning curve continues......

Been teaching a 15 y.o to fly recently using my "uglystar" type trainer that I made from spares including a set of radian wings. He's been doing quite well considering he's never flown before, and has to learn to fly in 20 knot winds.The wind, as I've mentioned in previous posts, is just a never changing constant, because of where I live. This purpose built trainer has been adequate for basic instruction and learning fundamentals, but because of it's inherent "trainer" nature, it is still a struggle in these conditions. Hence the "two pronged" approach. So after three flights, I gave him the controls of my favourite combat plane, a near scale EPP tailless model of the Junkers EF128, a last ditch luftwaffe jet fighter. Being basically unbreakable, it seemed a logical choice. Reducing the throws, and slowing it right down, he quickly got the hang of it, and was far more comfortable and confident straightaway. In the constant wind, this plane can soar with the power off, and climb vertical with it on, and flies as well inverted as right way up. He said it felt so much easier to fly, and responded much better to the controls. He actually landed it on his first attempt, and on the subsequent ones. There is along way to go yet, but it was practical proof that this style of plane really instilled confidence. I would be hesitant to start off on this plane with a complete beginner, but this young fellow graduated quite easily to it. This is the second time I have used a combat plane as a trainer, and its ability to fly in wind with impunity is the major factor in it's success. Learning to fly is tricky enough without the constant battle of buffeting, ever changing gusts and gales. The radian based trainer flies quite well in calm weather, and I can manage it in 25-30 knots with extra nose ballast, but it is hardly inspiring. The EPP fuse also stands up much better than the standard one as well. I realise they are not made for these conditions, but I have yet to find a trainer that is. Still, it fulfills its intended function very well; basic orientation and fundamentals, and I do like specking it out to show a student what it CAN do. So the two pronged approach seems to be working using both planes The other good thing is the more I teach, the more I learn... more later
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:08 AM   #129
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That was a great post.

Sounds like you have real challenging conditions. To teach successfully really marks you as a great teacher.

Congratulations to you and your student.

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Old 11-12-2010, 01:14 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
That was a great post.

Sounds like you have real challenging conditions. To teach successfully really marks you as a great teacher.

Congratulations to you and your student.
Thanks for that Ed. I've found your thread inspirational, so you deserve some of the credit
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:01 PM   #131
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Thanks for the training story. When I was learning to fly radio it was a challenge. We didn't have buddy cords then. I have been a CL flyer since the early 50's. I was one of the club instructers until I left the club. I too agree trainers that are/were made at the time had not been set up right to begin with. Most saying to use a 6 pitch prop on you name the diameter. When I started using 4 pitch props it made it easier to teach. The speed envelope was narrower between high and low speed. Got a lot of gaff about using low pitch props, but to me they pulled better. They also landed a lot slower. Lost count of how many students soloed in three or two sessions of learning.
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:40 AM   #132
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Default just to add....

This young fellow did really well in learning the basics, so I built him a flying wing pusher along the lines of my combat planes. Full EPP construction and all the crash proof techniques I learned through countless dogfights paid off. He crashed a couple of times in the 25 knot crosswinds, but who could blame him When he saw the plane could just get back in the air, his confidence just continued to grow. Really pleased to say that he is very happy with his first plane, and it should continue to serve him well for a long time to come. The local hobby shop, sad to say, was not all that helpfull, and it would have been down right neglectfull of me not to step in and offer to build one for him. He ended up with a virtually indestructable plane that flies in all weather, at less than 1/2 the cost of the awful ARFs that would have lasted him about 10 seconds. All going well, he'll teach some one else to fly one day
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:40 PM   #133
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Jeez Ed, does your brain EVER slow down?

As usual, you have produced the definitive document on this (or a dozen other) subject(s). You are amazing and a priceless asset to our hobby.

Thank you very much... The Bum
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:17 PM   #134
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LEARNING THERMAL SOARING

While this is the electric plane forum, there are a growing number of electric pilots who are getting involved in thermal soaring through the Radian, Easy Glider Pro, the Radian Pro and a variety of other gliders. Here the challenge is not how to fly the plane as much as how to hunt for thermal lift.

A new training aid I have come accross is the Thermal Scout.

THERMAL SCOUT – Full scale glider pilots have devices that help them know when they are in thermal lift. You can also get such devices for RC gliders, however they can be expensive costing over $150.

The Thermal Scout came out about a year ago. I was reading about it on the forums and decided to order one. The Thermal Scout has one purpose, to notify the RC pilot that his plane is probably in lift.

It has an altimeter that can detect a change in altitude and a control that will swing the rudder left and right in order to rock the wings so that pilot can see the signal that the glider is in lift. http://www.wingedshadow.com/thermalscout.html

The unit only weighs a few grams. It is inserted between the receiver and the rudder servo. Then a second connection goes to any free channel so that the Thermal Scout can be turned on and off during the flight. In my Radian I have it installed next to the receiver. I have the second lead going to the gear channel which I operate from my DX5e with the top left switch.

You want the thermal scout turned off during launch, when in lift and when landing. You only want it turned on when you are in level flight and actively hunting for thermals.

When it is off, the signals to the rudder are passed through to the rudder servo. When on, the rudder continues to operate normally, but the Thermal Scout is watching your plane’s altitude, looking for a sudden and steady rise. When it detects this, it wags the rudder telling you that you are likely in lift. From the ground you should be able to see this wag or wing rocking motion.

When you see the signal you flip the device off and go work the lift. It is simple to use and, compared to fully functional variometers, very reasonable in price.

I installed one in my Radian, which is my primary trainer plane, and it works as advertised. If you are flying a thermal glider and having trouble finding lift, try the Thermal Scout. It looks like it should be a good training tool. And if you are an instructor, this could help your students become successful thermal pilots all that much faster.


Video of action produced by Thermal Scout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-2hhtXUIAU

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Old 05-11-2011, 05:00 PM   #135
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Here is an excellent video on doing a preflight on an RTF airplane. This is a lesson that should be part of any training process.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycirn27zXTk&feature=player_embedded

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Old 05-13-2011, 04:49 PM   #136
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In general a great video, but at about 50 seconds he cuts off three fingers when his radio receiver malfunctions and runs the motor at full throttle while he's holding the plane in a completely unsafe manner. Okay, in fairness, his radio and ESC functioned as advertised, but it wasn't because of following proper battery hookup procedure that he avoided being an object lesson.

Batteries should always be hooked up with all parts of your body behind the plane of propeller rotation. If that puppy goes off, you want it to harmlessly zip off and crash so the next words you say will be simple good-natured four letter epithets, not "Call 911."

I call that a major error. We need another video.

Edit: Ohhhhh Noooooooo! At 5:59 he's repeating the same error. There are only two kinds of people who handle their planes like that: those who have been severely cut by a prop and those who will be severely cut in the future.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:18 PM   #137
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If I were him, I wouldnt be as worried about cutting off fingers, the prop was inches away from "below the belt line" area and the a/c was pointed in that "general direction". You would think that engineers could create access to battery from top of plane, IMHO it would solve alot of "dangerous" encounters. In my short tenure with RC, I have had it happen twice, once it was only twitching maybe two revolutions, the other was my mistake.

have a good one
cr
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:29 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
If I were him, I wouldnt be as worried about cutting off fingers, the prop was inches away from "below the belt line" area
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:09 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
In general a great video, but at about 50 seconds he cuts off three fingers when his radio receiver malfunctions and runs the motor at full throttle while he's holding the plane in a completely unsafe manner. Okay, in fairness, his radio and ESC functioned as advertised, but it wasn't because of following proper battery hookup procedure that he avoided being an object lesson.

Batteries should always be hooked up with all parts of your body behind the plane of propeller rotation. If that puppy goes off, you want it to harmlessly zip off and crash so the next words you say will be simple good-natured four letter epithets, not "Call 911."

I call that a major error. We need another video.

Edit: Ohhhhh Noooooooo! At 5:59 he's repeating the same error. There are only two kinds of people who handle their planes like that: those who have been severely cut by a prop and those who will be severely cut in the future.
You had me going there for a minute about these cuttings. Clearly they did not happen but your point is very well taken.

Frankly, as an instructor I would make use of those mistakes to point out to the student the danger of handling the plane in that manner. I think the video is fine when used by an instructor, coach, friend, to help a new pilot.

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Old 05-13-2011, 09:16 PM   #140
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Sorry about the red herring there Ed. I was a bit sensationalist there, wasn't I?

Maybe it's better than fine. It shows how easy it is for an experienced flier who really knows better to fall into complacency. This isn't some newbie making that mistake. He's doing it as a qualified professional, representing a company which has a lot to lose if he gets it wrong.

It has nothing to do with being new. Safety is more important than that. Even old-timers can be caught by these flying Ginsu knives. I think that lesson would be retained and not forgotten easily after watching this video.

So I yield my point. He does it dead wrong. And this video is the perfect way to get the job done, teaching new fliers that this is going to be a continuing concern for as long as they fly.

Here's the back of the label card on the APC 11x4.7 SF prop I just bought:
Failure to properly use, maintain, or operate this propeller may result in serious injury. Refer to engine manufacturer for proper size propeller. Install flat side of prop toward engine..... Keep all fingers, hands, hair and clothing out of the path of prop. Make all adjustments from behind engine. Keep all spectators 20 feet from path of prop. Do not start engine in loose dirt or gravel. To stop engine, shut off fuel supply. DO NOT THROW ANYTHING INTO PROPELLER TO STOP ENGINE! Discard props with fractures, nicks, or signs of wear. Do not repair or modify this propeller in any manner.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:27 PM   #141
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So glad I found this forum I will be putting all of the links in my bookmarks and having a good read through!
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:20 AM   #142
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How are you using flight simulators as part of your teaching routine?

Which sim do you recommend and why?

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Old 01-18-2012, 01:17 AM   #143
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My son's been learning to fly for about a year now. Probably only 5-10 minutes every couple of weeks, but he's made great progress and has started to relax while flying and even do a few tricks (loops, 'death spirals').

I started teaching by standing behind him, with my hands on his shoulders so I could apply pressure right or left and help him steer when needed. He's moved on, and we haven't done that for months.

Yesterday was the first time he felt relaxed enough to let me fly a plane at the same time - I was unavailable if he got into trouble (which he rarely does.)

I put the camera on my light Stryker and captured a little footage of the event.




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Old 01-18-2012, 03:29 AM   #144
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Congratulations! You both graduate. He as student a you as instructor. You should both be very proud!

Now he will bring his friends to have you teach them too.

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Old 01-18-2012, 03:52 AM   #145
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very cool video I enjoyed watching great job by you both.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:58 PM   #146
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Thanks. Ironically, that little cartwheel on landing is the first time in the last dozen or so flights that he didn't land it perfectly. Of course!

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Old 04-12-2012, 08:10 PM   #147
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I'm curious if most instructors prefer to teach using a 3 channel (throttle on left stick, rudder and elevator on right), or 4 channel (throttle and rudder on left stick, aileron and elevator on right)? It seems easier to learn on a 3 channel, but then when the student wants to eventually transition to a 4 channel, there is the challenge of learning how to fly with different inputs.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:53 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by paul8 View Post
I'm curious if most instructors prefer to teach using a 3 channel (throttle on left stick, rudder and elevator on right), or 4 channel (throttle and rudder on left stick, aileron and elevator on right)? It seems easier to learn on a 3 channel, but then when the student wants to eventually transition to a 4 channel, there is the challenge of learning how to fly with different inputs.
Different inputs? How so? Not on my planes.

Pitch and roll on the right stick
Yaw and speed on the left stick

2 channel, 3 channel, 4 channel, 12 channel. Always the same.


The ONLY difference is if you are doing runway operations where you need to steer on the ground. Now you have a shift because ground steering is normally done with the left stick.

However, if you have a computer radio you just mix left and right sticks so that you get rudder on both and it doesn't matter.

Take a look at this article. See if it answers your question.

What Goes on Which Stick?
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

If you are flying an RTF electric plane, your radio and servos are already set-up for you. However if you are setting up an ARF or finishing a kit, you will be installing your own radio equipment. So, which stuff goes on which stick, and why?

We usually talk about what surface is controlled by what stick. However,
that is not really the right way to look at it.


First, the control axis:

Pitch - nose up/nose down - usually controlled by the elevator or elevator function of elevons

Roll - rotation of the wings around the fuselage - controlled by ailerons or the aileron function of elevons.

If the plane does not have ailerons or elevons, then roll can be controlled by the rudder or the rudder function of a V tail rudervators, depending on the design of the plane. On rudder only planes the rudder works with dihedral in the wings, the upward slant of the wings, to roll the plane.

Yaw - movement of the nose left or right - controlled by rudder or the rudder function if V tail ruddervators.

Speed - throttle control

If you are in a different part of the world, you may be flying mode 1, 3 or 4. I live in North America where Mode 2 is the standard, so the rest of this post will be referencing mode 2 control positions.

Note that I mention Mode 2, which is marked with the * below.

Left stick ...............Right Stick ..................Mode

Pitch and Yaw .......Speed and Roll ..............1

Speed and Yaw*......Pitch and Roll*..............2*

Pitch and Roll ..........Speed and Yaw ...........3

Speed and Roll ........Pitch and Yaw .............4

For a power plane, landing gear, flaps and other such functions are assigned
to switches, buttons, dials, sliders or levers, but are not defined as part of the mode definitions.

For a two stick radio, used in mode two format, the standard format in North
America, pitch and roll are on the right stick with roll ALWAYS being your
primary turning control. Yaw and speed control are on the left stick.

Based on mode 2 it is very easy to move from a dual stick to a single stick radio as the right, or the only stick, always have has your primary fight controls if pitch and roll.

Primary Speed control

Since this is written for electric flyers, we will assume you have an electric motor. On a two stick radio, the speed control is on the left stick and is controlled by the motion that goes toward you to turn the motor off and away from you to give full throttle. For a single stick radio the throttle control is usually on the left side and will be a slide, switch or lever.

Where does the rudder go?

Confusion often exists around where to put the rudder. Depending on the design of your plane, the rudder can play different roles so its placement can change. On a three channel electric plane without ailerons, the rudder is your primary turning surface. It provides both roll and yaw control so it goes on the right stick for roll control, as the primary turning surface. This stick also has pitch control provided by the elevator. The rudder will work with a feature of the wings, called dihedral or polyhedral, to roll or bank the plane when you want to turn.

What if there are ailerons, or elevons?

Primary flight controls of pitch and roll are always on the right stick, or the only stick. If this is a 3 channel plane with throttle, aileron and elevator controls only, like a flying wing that has elevon controls (combined elevator aileron in one surface), now where do I put things? Think of function rather than surface and you will know immediately. Which surface provides roll control? In this case it is the ailerons, so they go on the right stick with the elevator which provides pitch control.

If this is a 4 channel plane that has ailerons and a rudder, the ailerons are your primary roll control, so they go on the right stick. The rudder moves to the left hand stick to provide yaw control, which helps the ailerons turn the plane smoothly.

If you are flying off a runway, the rudder can be very valuable as it helps control your path down the runway during take-off and landing. If you have a steerable ground wheel it is usually attached to the rudder or the rudder channel. The rudder, in this configuration, also plays a valuable part during landing when we may wish to redirect the nose of the plane without tipping the wings using the ailerons.


Moving from single stick to dual stick radios

Some people feel it is confusing to move from a single stick radio to a dual stick, radio, however, if you are flying mode 2, it really isn't confusing at all. If you think of your radio and your controls in this manner, there is no confusion moving back and forth between single stick and dual stick radios or between three channel R/E/T planes and A/E/T planes or planes that are A/E/R/T.

On a single stick radio, pitch and roll are on the single stick, which happens to be oriented to the right side of the radio. If this is a dual stick radio, pitch and roll are still on the right hand stick. It doesn't matter if it is a rudder/elevator plane or an aileron/elevator plane. Pitch and roll are on the right stick, or the only stick.

Think of your controls this way and there is never a doubt what goes where or which controls to use when you switch between radios and planes.

I hope this was helpful.

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Old 04-12-2012, 09:08 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Different inputs? How so? Not on my planes.

Pitch and roll on the right stick
Yaw and speed on the left stick

2 channel, 3 channel, 4 channel, 12 channel. Always the same.


The ONLY difference is if you are doing runway operations where you need to steer on the ground. Now you have a shift because ground steering is normally done with the left stick.

However, if you have a computer radio you just mix left and right sticks so that you get rudder on both and it doesn't matter.

Take a look at this article. See if it answers your question.

What Goes on Which Stick?
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

If you are flying an RTF electric plane, your radio and servos are already set-up for you. However if you are setting up an ARF or finishing a kit, you will be installing your own radio equipment. So, which stuff goes on which stick, and why?

We usually talk about what surface is controlled by what stick. However,
that is not really the right way to look at it.


First, the control axis:

Pitch - nose up/nose down - usually controlled by the elevator or elevator function of elevons

Roll - rotation of the wings around the fuselage - controlled by ailerons or the aileron function of elevons.

If the plane does not have ailerons or elevons, then roll can be controlled by the rudder or the rudder function of a V tail rudervators, depending on the design of the plane. On rudder only planes the rudder works with dihedral in the wings, the upward slant of the wings, to roll the plane.

Yaw - movement of the nose left or right - controlled by rudder or the rudder function if V tail ruddervators.

Speed - throttle control

If you are in a different part of the world, you may be flying mode 1, 3 or 4. I live in North America where Mode 2 is the standard, so the rest of this post will be referencing mode 2 control positions.

Note that I mention Mode 2, which is marked with the * below.

Left stick ...............Right Stick ..................Mode

Pitch and Yaw .......Speed and Roll ..............1

Speed and Yaw*......Pitch and Roll*..............2*

Pitch and Roll ..........Speed and Yaw ...........3

Speed and Roll ........Pitch and Yaw .............4

For a power plane, landing gear, flaps and other such functions are assigned
to switches, buttons, dials, sliders or levers, but are not defined as part of the mode definitions.

For a two stick radio, used in mode two format, the standard format in North
America, pitch and roll are on the right stick with roll ALWAYS being your
primary turning control. Yaw and speed control are on the left stick.

Based on mode 2 it is very easy to move from a dual stick to a single stick radio as the right, or the only stick, always have has your primary fight controls if pitch and roll.

Primary Speed control

Since this is written for electric flyers, we will assume you have an electric motor. On a two stick radio, the speed control is on the left stick and is controlled by the motion that goes toward you to turn the motor off and away from you to give full throttle. For a single stick radio the throttle control is usually on the left side and will be a slide, switch or lever.

Where does the rudder go?

Confusion often exists around where to put the rudder. Depending on the design of your plane, the rudder can play different roles so its placement can change. On a three channel electric plane without ailerons, the rudder is your primary turning surface. It provides both roll and yaw control so it goes on the right stick for roll control, as the primary turning surface. This stick also has pitch control provided by the elevator. The rudder will work with a feature of the wings, called dihedral or polyhedral, to roll or bank the plane when you want to turn.

What if there are ailerons, or elevons?

Primary flight controls of pitch and roll are always on the right stick, or the only stick. If this is a 3 channel plane with throttle, aileron and elevator controls only, like a flying wing that has elevon controls (combined elevator aileron in one surface), now where do I put things? Think of function rather than surface and you will know immediately. Which surface provides roll control? In this case it is the ailerons, so they go on the right stick with the elevator which provides pitch control.

If this is a 4 channel plane that has ailerons and a rudder, the ailerons are your primary roll control, so they go on the right stick. The rudder moves to the left hand stick to provide yaw control, which helps the ailerons turn the plane smoothly.

If you are flying off a runway, the rudder can be very valuable as it helps control your path down the runway during take-off and landing. If you have a steerable ground wheel it is usually attached to the rudder or the rudder channel. The rudder, in this configuration, also plays a valuable part during landing when we may wish to redirect the nose of the plane without tipping the wings using the ailerons.


Moving from single stick to dual stick radios

Some people feel it is confusing to move from a single stick radio to a dual stick, radio, however, if you are flying mode 2, it really isn't confusing at all. If you think of your radio and your controls in this manner, there is no confusion moving back and forth between single stick and dual stick radios or between three channel R/E/T planes and A/E/T planes or planes that are A/E/R/T.

On a single stick radio, pitch and roll are on the single stick, which happens to be oriented to the right side of the radio. If this is a dual stick radio, pitch and roll are still on the right hand stick. It doesn't matter if it is a rudder/elevator plane or an aileron/elevator plane. Pitch and roll are on the right stick, or the only stick.

Think of your controls this way and there is never a doubt what goes where or which controls to use when you switch between radios and planes.

I hope this was helpful.
I agree that if you have an airplane with dihedral in the wing, then the rudder acts similar to aileron inputs. However, if you have a wing without dihedral, if you bank using aileron, the plane will not turn unless you add some elevator.

I guess in most cases beginner planes have some dihedral, and it's probably easier to learn on a trainer that has more dihedral because they will come back to a wings level position on their own.

thanks,

Paul
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:12 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by paul8 View Post
I agree that if you have an airplane with dihedral in the wing, then the rudder acts similar to aileron inputs. However, if you have a wing without dihedral, if you bank using aileron, the plane will not turn unless you add some elevator.

I guess in most cases beginner planes have some dihedral, and it's probably easier to learn on a trainer that has more dihedral because they will come back to a wings level position on their own.

thanks,

Paul
I would not train on a flat wing plane, ailerons or not.

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