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Old 05-18-2012, 02:37 PM   #151
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Any new ideas out there about teaching people how to fly? Best trainers? Best techniques?

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Old 05-18-2012, 04:04 PM   #152
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As someone who returned to the hobby after a 30 year absence, I think there's a plethera of information here on Wattflyers for the new RC pilot.

Before actually getting to the field, I think it's important to spend some time helping a student understand what he/she's getting into as you're bringing on another addict.

Almost info overload being new to the electric world. Done right, it will be fun and rewarding for the student. Done wrong, and they get frustrated after the first crash and leave the hobby faster than you can say: "I never saw that tree."

They've been on Banana Hobby and Nitroplanes and seen all the cool looking high performance edf's . Stop em there. They need a high wing trainer. A good first plane would be the HZ Super Cub with 2.4. or an E-flight Apprentice. When they show up with their AF Cessna 182 with flaps tell em its not a good first plane.

I tell newbies to check their budget. Do they want to do this on the cheap? If so, there are alot of options.

Assuming they have their AMA card I would have them spend time on a simulator. Real Flight/ Phoenix are both good.

If it's a club situation, most clubs have an instructor and a trainer ( gas or electric) to learn on. The buddy box helped me enormously. Most memberships are more than willing to help.

Like full scale, the one thing that still resonates is: " Fly the plane, don't let the plane fly you !! "

Have them read through all the beginners forums here including all of the great sticky's. AEAJR , you're a mentor to many of us. They'll get a crash course on Electrical and Aeronautical Engineering that will help them better understand what is going on with their plane and electric airplanes in general. w=v*a

Tell them to have fun !

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Old 05-18-2012, 10:02 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Assuming they have their AMA card I would have them spend time on a simulator. Real Flight/ Phoenix are both good.
Why in the world would they need their AMA card to play with a sim?

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Old 05-18-2012, 10:34 PM   #154
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Not to start on a Sim but just a general starting point before actually flying. Doesn't matter if they fly on a farm. If they hit the neighbor's cow at least there's insurance.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:32 AM   #155
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So far, I,ve taught 3 people to fly in the last 2 years, mostly because there is a very real lack of interest in R/C where I live. What I have found though, is that a number of people have tried sims, then been totally unprepared for wind, sun in your eyes, and the real responses of real planes, trees, and fences. I know many thousands out there will swear black and blue how great sims are etc, etc.....it just has not been my experience. Happy flying anyway.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:33 AM   #156
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Sims don't teach you to fly, they prepare you to learn to fly. Sims ARE great for getting used to sticks, hand eye coordination and the like. Sims are great for practicing take-off and landing routines. That is what I have new pilots do. Beyond that, you need real stick time on a plane in the air.

Get them in the real world and they still freeze up, they still get "reversed" and they still fly right into objects... Only now there is no reset.

I find sims valuable also for giving homework assignments. work on this or work on that.

Frankly many people get on the sims and put themselves in the plane. Or they fly and crash and feel they are doing well because of what they did in the air, ignoring how many times they hit the reset button. But used as a learning tool, rather than a toy, they are very valuable.

That is why they need us. :-)

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:03 AM   #157
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The HobbyZone Stratos is a remarkable trainer. I recommend starting with it. I have been flying for 4 years, love my Radian and bought a Stratos on a lark. it is incredible! Check it out...and stay away from EDFs at first..
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:43 AM   #158
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What is a Sticky???
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:20 AM   #159
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A 'sticky' is a 'sticky thread;' one that is tagged by the forum so that it stays at the top of the list of threads at all times. Usually threads of continuing general interest such as Forum Rules.

Go to the main page of this forum, for example, and at the top you'll see 'sticky' threads such as 'Helping People Learn to Fly' (this very thread); Everything You Wanted To Know About Electric Powered Flight; etc.

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Old 12-10-2012, 04:43 PM   #160
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I have put a website together for people who are trying to make their own way in the hobby, I know from experience it's not easy. take a look see what you think http://rcplanes4beginners.co.uk/
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:01 PM   #161
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Great thread. I started flying rc in 1989 and after about 5 or 6 years felt like I had gotten about all I could get out of the hobby. Then I discovered teaching new flyers and it was like re-living the fun all over again!
Gene
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:11 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by flyer103 View Post
Great thread. I started flying rc in 1989 and after about 5 or 6 years felt like I had gotten about all I could get out of the hobby. Then I discovered teaching new flyers and it was like re-living the fun all over again!
Gene
So True, and well said ,, Bubsteve


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Old 02-27-2013, 09:39 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
So True, and well said ,, Bubsteve
Those look like some happy kids!
G
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:54 AM   #164
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Awesome information loaded with valuable content. I have never seen a more detailed information on beginners flying, I have found your tutorial very helpful. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:23 PM   #165
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Thanks for the good words for my article and the contribution of others in the thread. We all want to help the students AND the instructors/coaches to be successful.

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Old 04-08-2013, 06:54 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Any new ideas out there about teaching people how to fly? Best trainers? Best techniques?
There are always new trainers...

I still like to point at variations of the Piper Cub and the Cessna 152/172/182 series.
Anything that looks a lot like those will probably work.

The Dh Tiger Moth is also usually a good choice... Its the only biplane I would ever recommend as an RC trainer.

I have given lessons using (my own) aircraft as extreme as a Great Planes 60 inch Fokker Dr1 and Pattern competition grade models. You can get away with it. I don't recommend these for general training.

There are also many methods for training. Mr Ragland's, buddy-box, pass the box...
Whatever helps the student the most is what you need to use. This varies from student to student.

Our club's instructors will also "pass the student"
If one instructoris having trouble getting the student to understand a concept then another will usually be able to explain it in a manner that helps the student

Helping the student the best we can. That's our job as instructors.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:23 PM   #167
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For those willing to teach others how to fly, build, help with A/C setups, maidens etc, you can volunteer to be a Model Aviation Mentor. Just let me know and I can add you to our map.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...fa6f42a3de34bc

Thanks,

Frank

Let's Help Newcomers! << Click Here
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:15 PM   #168
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We have entered the age of flight stabilization. In your opinion, will this help or hurt the new pilot training?

Flight stabilization has been in existence for many years but it is now being incorporated into more RTF and BNF models. And you can now buy receivers with flight stabilization built in. This has made some very small and light weight models much more flyable than would have otherwise been possible.

The new umx Radian, micro Radian, is a good example. This 1.5 ounce micro glider flies great even in windy conditions that would have made it nearly impossible to fly without stabalization.

So, is flight stabilization a good thing that will become more and more common, like automatic transmissions on cars? Or is it a bad thing that will deny the new pilot the skills to fly models that don't have stabilization, just as most people can't dive a manual shift car.

As an instructor/trainer, what is your opinion?

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Old 06-17-2014, 06:31 PM   #169
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As an old beginner (learn again after 40 year absence) I might have a different take from instructors but I think it would be dependent on the situation. I am re-learning with my club's instructor so I have the support of someone and I have a nice big field/paved runway/people will to cut me some slack as I learn as long as I don't endanger anyone or anything. Given this I am not sure the flight stabilization is needed or desired because I need to learn the results of my actions as I progress. This will serve to make me a better flyer-IMO.

On the other hand if I were trying this without the support mentioned I think it help folks stick with the hobby since they/we would not be crashing so much. The drawback is that they/we would also not be sure why the stabilization kicked in and what to be done to prevent the need for the future. I could see where this might also give a false sense of security which could have dangerous results later. On the other hand it should boost sales which means the potential for more folks to enjoy RC flight.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:08 PM   #170
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I agree with everything Mr.Winkle said. Very well said!

I will add that I see stabilization as a tool, and like any tool can be useful or harmful if not used correctly. Some will use it forever as a crutch and never care to learn the details of flight, others will understand what it's doing and use it to expand their flight capabilities. You can't just paint it with a broad brush of 'good' or 'bad'

One thing that concerns me is that it will enable people to learn to fly on their own with less or no outside instruction. In which case they may learn the hard way about safety with lipos and electric motors and propellers, things like that.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:22 PM   #171
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For years, I've read, heard, and been told that it is nearly impossible to teach yourself to fly, and that you would certainly wreck your plane trying How ever; I did teach myself to fly R/C, with no help from anyone, and certainly without any kind of stabilising device. I still have the plane I learned on, and still fly it regularly. It is an S&B Me 163 Komet. EPP, pusher prop, combat capable and general all rounder. Its' sheer indestructability combined with pure flight characteristics made it a perfect trainer, and all weather plane as well. BUT....I crashed a lot, made mistakes that would have wiped out a squadron of pz planes, and basically got good enough to land that Komet at my feet. In hindsight , I would not advise anyone to do the same, unless they also lived in comparative isolation and had a bullet proof plane as well

Anything that helps a novice get airborne, like a stabilising device, is simply another way of achieving the same end without taking the scenic route, or getting totally disheartened. Maybe my age is showing, but hard earned rewards are the ones that I cherish, and having it made safe and easy does not bring the same sense of achievement. Instant gratification and success is a symptom of modern life, so I expect we will see more of these anti crash gadgets as time goes by. Happy flying
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:37 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
I agree with everything Mr.Winkle said. Very well said!

I will add that I see stabilization as a tool, and like any tool can be useful or harmful if not used correctly. Some will use it forever as a crutch and never care to learn the details of flight, others will understand what it's doing and use it to expand their flight capabilities. You can't just paint it with a broad brush of 'good' or 'bad'

One thing that concerns me is that it will enable people to learn to fly on their own with less or no outside instruction. In which case they may learn the hard way about safety with lipos and electric motors and propellers, things like that.
I agree completely on all points.

I am all for training wheels, automatic transmissions and flight stabilization. What I would encourage, after proficiency with the stabilization is to turn it off or learn to fly a plane without it. If nothing else this will teach the skills needed should the stabilization fail.


For thermal glider pilots this may actually work against thermal soaring as it looks to keep the plane/glider flying in a stable fashion and it is the destabilization caused by thermals that we use to read the air.

But, overall, I think it is a good thing and will be helpful to getting new pilots in the air. Regardless of the aids, whether it be stabilization, radio mixing or other conveniences, I believe all pilots should learn to fly without them. But that does not have to be how they initially learn.

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Old 06-22-2014, 04:51 AM   #173
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I must confess, my earlier thoughts on training with SAFE were just that. I didn't experience it personally until this morning. I must say I'm having a few 2nd thoughts about the whole thing.

1st, my buddy was using a Dx6i with a brand new BNF Apprentice, not the 5e that comes with the RTF version. So the 6i did not have the 3 position switch to select trainer modes. We decided it's best to bind it to my tx first, a Dx18g2, and I could trim it out and get the feel of the SAFE system so we'll have a better idea of what to expect, which brought up the 1st problem. Other than the dip switches being set for the 2 modes we desired (Based on the constraints of his tx), I didn't really know what mode I was taking off in. An uncomfortable feeling. Not that I thought it would be hard to fly, but just being in an unknown situation doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

So now we're buddy boxing, we discover that for some reason I have control of the training mode. Maybe I had something set wrong on my tx, but I think every channel was set to transfer to him when I gave him control. We set up the tx's per the manual. Not a huge deal, but...

Lastly, I can see how the training modes can almost 'un-train' someone before they even learn to fly! It turns out even with his previous extensive RC boat and car experience, he had to keep it on beginner mode. (The pretty strong winds were probably a factor.) And the dreaded 10 acre turn radius reared it's ugly head! But we discovered holding full aileron and rudder together helped with that. So back to the 'un-training' part, to make the plane turn, and you almost constantly had to turn it to keep it reasonably close, you just hold full aileron and rudder constantly in the direction you want to turn, because if you let go it rights itself. I reminded him a LOT that this is not normal, and to not think this is how you would usually fly. I reinforced getting a sim and practicing in there with what he learned out at the field.

And what do I think he learned at the field? I talked to him about 'keeping ahead' of the plane, planning your turns in advance and such. A must with the huge turn radius. He even shot a few approaches and did pretty well considering the wind. (It was strong enough I was having to work a little to get it down nicely, and we couldn't taxi well due to the wind trying to flip it over.) I had to take over a few times due to approaching the flight line too close or almost getting into the sun. Once again, this may have been made worse due to the strong winds in our faces. And I think just having stick time is good to get used to just doing it, as he was pretty nervous before starting.

So this reinforces my feelings that it could become a bad crutch for some. But it is a great tool for learning if used correctly.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:08 PM   #174
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Appologies for not offering something new.....but, outside of the SAFE or equal stabilization stuff coming out for planes now.......is there really any "new" methods or techniques out there to train a beginner on RC planes........Not Really.....!

Since I'm old school flight trained and practiced.....still to this day (bring them up on high-wing, 4ch, introduce rudder early and often, buddy box floater)...it always depends on the student.....regardless of our own expertise. Recognizing the students strength, weakness, aptitude, engagement, patience and providing the proper method and craft, will go miles in developing a happy, wanting more student.......especially if it's a wanna-bee heli interest.....

I can now speak to the SAFE technology with some experience, be it on quads only:

Had this tecnology been around, refined and afforable 8-10 years ago when I got into CCP heli's..........I'd still be there now........the advent of the whole multi-rotor stablization thing has changed the game for entry level RC flying.......I'd go as far as to say....If anyone interested in getting into RC flight (planks, helis, quads, has the a few bucks and is willling to stay disciplined), could learn to fly damn near anything basic (even without SIM experience) on a well tamed, 200 size quad...

The SAFE system is just simply amassing on quads...no other words I can find do it justice....!......and it still has enough challenge and learning curve to stimulate the student since it often employs three levels of performance one can grow into.......the complete "agility" mode will challenge even the most experienced pilots on most "above basic average" craft.

I've only flown one plank, the UMX Pitts S1-S, with the (SAFE) AX3X....only lacking the "hover" yaw, elevator aspect on winged craft......although that model does not fly at all like a true Pitts, the stabilty aspect, for it's size, is just the definition of KISS for flight managment....so much so, it kinda takes the whole nerves and thrills out of throwing around a normal, small 3D foamie that makes you work to think 3 moves ahead of it......

I'd have to agree with others, today's SAFE type intro models will most definitely entice those new RC'ers and bring more interest into the hobby....be it over confident and reckless "I got this down" wanna-bees, which will ultimately get weeded out due to social influence, reality of continued "learning" studying (repair/build/modify/adjust) to advance past anything more than a go & throw advanced beginner......

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Old 06-22-2014, 07:24 PM   #175
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Pizzano, great input, but I think you're confusing SAFE, AS3X, and other stabilization systems. The Pitts doesn't have SAFE, only AS3X. You can read about SAFE here.
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