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Off Topic Chit Chat Get to know other eflight modelers in the WattFlyer community here in this off topic forum. NO politics or religion discussion please (Holiday well wishes are ok)

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Old 12-19-2010, 04:12 AM   #1
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Lightbulb Power/Electric Savers, they work Great

Hi Everyone I stumbled on to these power savers, and decided to give them a try, nothing to loose with a money back Guarantee, except a little time to install it, Well, they worked for me and my neighbor across the street, he said that his mother had one installed and she is saving about 25% on her electric bill I saved from last months bill of 416 kWh in Oct/November/, to 305 kWh for Nov./ Dec. Bill Cycle, thats a little better than a 25% Savings the electric company thought that their meter might be bad, and installed a New Digital Electric Meter on my house LOL.

I know that there are some people that think that these Power savers are Snake oil and dont work Everyone is entitled to their own Opinion, Right ,Wrong or Indifferant, Thats Ok, but they are just hurting themself to what could be a big savings on their Electric Bill, they are working for me and my neighbors, and i am saving money I Just wanted to Share my Experience with these Power savers, Take care and have fun, Chellie


PS. if anyone is interested in a power saver, here is a link to get them. I like them because it has a money back guarantee, they are made in the USA, and they use UL tested parts to be safe.

BTW: Power Savers are a Surge Protector too, and will help to save your Delicate Computer Electronics in case of a power surge.

http://www.electricsaver1200.com/

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Old 12-19-2010, 04:22 AM   #2
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stay away from the Cheapy power savers to be on the safe side


I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 12-19-2010, 05:41 AM   #3
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Doesn't appear to be UL approved. Maybe it works, but without the coveted UL label I will stay away.

I figured it was a cap switch, I think it would benefit people more who share heavily loaded lines (in city)

Edit.....Chellie, is it UL approved? I couldnt find anything on the website.

Edit again...I see the video saying it uses UL parts, they are a bit deceiving since the complete assembly is not UL approved. There is no safety assurance from a 3rd party to qualify the complete unit...


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Old 12-19-2010, 06:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by aviatordave View Post
Doesn't appear to be UL approved. Maybe it works, but without the coveted UL label I will stay away.

I figured it was a cap switch, I think it would benefit people more who share heavily loaded lines (in city)

Edit.....Chellie, is it UL approved? I couldnt find anything on the website.

Edit again...I see the video saying it uses UL parts, they are a bit deceiving since the complete assembly is not UL approved. There is no safety assurance from a 3rd party to qualify the complete unit...
I know that all the parts used in the powersaver 1200 are UL approved, I dont know if the complete unit is UL approved or not, you will have to check with the MFG on that, as far as i am concerned, as long as all the parts to make the unit are UL approved, thats good enough for me I feel safe knowing that, and I have my Powersaver on a Stand Alone, double, 20 amp, 220 volt breaker Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 12-19-2010, 03:11 PM   #5
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I work with UL and CSA. I realize they may have a decent thing here, but even though the components are UL listed it doesn't really mean that they ultimately work together. Kind of like if the unit would be subject to a short circuit you wouldn't want parts discharged outside the enclosure as well as flames. Without testing the assembly as a whole it just puts the consumer at risk. Getting a UL label on the complete assembly would involve test time at an accredited laboratory in the presence of UL. That alone could cost $20k.

The caps are made in Mexico and China after some research (not really made in the USA like advertised). The box is legit, NEMA 3R. The conduit and wire are from unknown sources. Here is how it works (Movs are for surge suppression):



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Old 12-19-2010, 09:33 PM   #6
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Hi Dave the Kvar and the Electricsaver 1200 are two different units, the Kvar is the one made in China, and i belive thats the one that the parts are not UL approved, one Dist. was trying to Discredit another Mfg. in the video the cap is enclosed in a metal box, that looks to be fire proof to me, and my powersaver is on its own circuit breaker, so its well protected against fire and shorting out IMHO, I trust it more than having a bunch of Christmas lights strung up all over my House LOL Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 12-20-2010, 02:52 PM   #7
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Out of curiosity Chellie, what do you usually get charged for Electric? Say like last months bill? Mine was $125, but I dont remember my KW used or KW rate.

I'll have to look when I get home.

(I knew it was a KVAR unit, but they are wired the same )


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Old 12-20-2010, 05:35 PM   #8
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Jeff/LAX
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:09 PM   #9
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I need new tinfoil for my hat, but I've been informed that aliens now use a much higher frequency: anyone know of a better product?
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:15 PM   #10
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No, the ailiens realized that the new, improved BERG Power/Electric Savers were superior in all ways to the old units, so they switched away from the high frequency ones.

Then they ate Cleveland.

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Old 12-20-2010, 08:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by spad View Post
I need new tinfoil for my hat, but I've been informed that aliens now use a much higher frequency: anyone know of a better product?
Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
No, the ailiens realized that the new, improved BERG Power/Electric Savers were superior in all ways to the old units, so they switched away from the high frequency ones.

Then they ate Cleveland.

You guys are Funny Thats what I love about Wattflyers, Lots of people have a sence of humor here Take care and have fun, Chellie

BTW: get some Orgon Generators to keep the Aliens Away and to save Electricity too There is no need for the tin hats when you use these Hope that makes you feel Safe and sound

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=org...erators&_rdc=1

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Old 12-20-2010, 08:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by aviatordave View Post
Out of curiosity Chellie, what do you usually get charged for Electric? Say like last months bill? Mine was $125, but I dont remember my KW used or KW rate.

I'll have to look when I get home.

(I knew it was a KVAR unit, but they are wired the same )
my Dec. bill was $123.00 down from my Nov bill of $157.00 a savings of $34.00, my power saver will pay for its self in 3 months at this rate

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
my Dec. bill was $123.00 down from my Nov bill of $157.00 a savings of $34.00, my power saver will pay for its self in 3 months at this rate
Do they have last years consumption on there?


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Old 12-20-2010, 08:46 PM   #14
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This looks like a simplified attempt to achieve some of the things that the "Nola" power factor controllers try to do.

Many of the higher power loading devices found in homes are motors, nearly always induction motors. Induction motors, especially when delivering less than their maximum rated horsepower present an electrical load to the power line which is "inductive" in nature. That means that the current lags behind the voltage as the voltage swings up and down 60 times per second. Since power is the product of voltage and current, if these are out of phase the power is reduced. In fact the current can be quite high while the power is nearly zero. This phase difference is expressed by a number call "power factor".

These devices with big capacitors across the lines will "correct" the power factor presented to the utility by offsetting the inductive load presented by the motors in your house. It's not a great fix to the problem but I suppose it can help some. The large currents are still flowing, but they flow between the motors in your house and this capacitor box instead of all the way out to the utility companies transformer.

Nola's original patent is #4,052,648 and the abstract says "A power factor control system for use with AC induction motors which samples line voltage and current through the motor and decreases power input to the motor proportional to the detected phase displacement between current and voltage to thereby provide less power to the motor, as it is less loaded."

Nola was an engineer working for NASA in the '70s. He developed and patented a technique for lowering the voltage feeding an induction motor runner under less than maximum load. This caused both the power factor to be improved and lowered the current. Both of these reduced wasted energy. As a side benefit the motor ran quieter. These "capacitor" devices, like Chellie referred to in this thread, for improving the power factor can help some but a "Nola" controller on each motor would help even more. Nola controllers are sold commercially for industrial applications, especially in situations where the load on the motor is variable, such as elevators, escalators and conveyor systems. I remember when the Nola controller idea was first introduced to the public in the form of a DIY project in one of the hobby electronics magazines.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by aviatordave View Post
Do they have last years consumption on there?
I moved in to this house recently, so i dont have a last years bill for Nov of 2009

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MustangMan View Post
This looks like a simplified attempt to achieve some of the things that the "Nola" power factor controllers try to do.

Many of the higher power loading devices found in homes are motors, nearly always induction motors. Induction motors, especially when delivering less than their maximum rated horsepower present an electrical load to the power line which is "inductive" in nature. That means that the current lags behind the voltage as the voltage swings up and down 60 times per second. Since power is the product of voltage and current, if these are out of phase the power is reduced. In fact the current can be quite high while the power is nearly zero. This phase difference is expressed by a number call "power factor".

These devices with big capacitors across the lines will "correct" the power factor presented to the utility by offsetting the inductive load presented by the motors in your house. It's not a great fix to the problem but I suppose it can help some. The large currents are still flowing, but they flow between the motors in your house and this capacitor box instead of all the way out to the utility companies transformer.

Nola's original patent is #4,052,648 and the abstract says "A power factor control system for use with AC induction motors which samples line voltage and current through the motor and decreases power input to the motor proportional to the detected phase displacement between current and voltage to thereby provide less power to the motor, as it is less loaded."

Nola was an engineer working for NASA in the '70s. He developed and patented a technique for lowering the voltage feeding an induction motor runner under less than maximum load. This caused both the power factor to be improved and lowered the current. Both of these reduced wasted energy. As a side benefit the motor ran quieter. These "capacitor" devices, like Chellie referred to in this thread, for improving the power factor can help some but a "Nola" controller on each motor would help even more. Nola controllers are sold commercially for industrial applications, especially in situations where the load on the motor is variable, such as elevators, escalators and conveyor systems. I remember when the Nola controller idea was first introduced to the public in the form of a DIY project in one of the hobby electronics magazines.
Thats very interesting thank you for sharing, Yes some motors already have a cap on them, these power savers help to make the motors run better and cooler extending there life which is a added bonus, they are a surge protector and they help to save energy, so you cant go wrong using them, it will take a while before people catch on and understand how and why these devices work, I am into electronics and understand how electricity works, i have worked with milliamps up to 440 volts-3 phase I wont work with the Primarys, that scares the heck out of me Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 12-20-2010, 11:55 PM   #17
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Based on aviatordave's diagram I did some parts shopping. Capacitors are available for $5 to $10 (for US made) each, the surge protectors are $0.77 each, and a box is $20 to $50. So say $25 to $75 for parts. A rule-of-thumb I once heard quoted was retail price = 4x parts cost. So that means $100 to $300 retail price.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Thats very interesting thank you for sharing, Yes some motors already have a cap on them, these power savers help to make the motors run better and cooler extending there life which is a added bonus, they are a surge protector and they help to save energy, so you cant go wrong using them, it will take a while before people catch on and understand how and why these devices work, I am into electronics and understand how electricity works, i have worked with milliamps up to 440 volts-3 phase I wont work with the Primarys, that scares the heck out of me Take care and have fun, Chellie

Could you explain it to me? I read the website and it looks like smoke and mirrors and yet another snare for the credulous. They might as well have said: "It's all ball bearings nowadays!"

Okay, I'll stop being coy - this is a sham. how do I know?

An organization like NIST - (the S and T stands for STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY - these cats are big on FACTS) has penned a few words on the viability of these devices as advertised -- Or, rather, the complete lack thereof:

http://www.nist.gov/pml/quantum/power_121509.cfm

And for the as yet unconvinced, the physics behind the debunking:

http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=903669



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Old 12-21-2010, 12:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Could you explain it to me? I read the website and it looks like smoke and mirrors and yet another snare for the credulous. They might as well have said: "It's all ball bearings nowadays!"

Okay, I'll stop being coy - this is a sham. how do I know?

An organization like NIST - (the S and T stands for STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY - these cats are big on FACTS) has penned a few words on the viability of these devices as advertised -- Or, rather, the complete lack thereof:

http://www.nist.gov/pml/quantum/power_121509.cfm

And for the as yet unconvinced, the physics behind the debunking:

http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=903669



cheers,
GRU
Hi GRU, Just try one, you have nothing to loose, money back Guarantee, how can you loose, test it, then you will know. if it does not work for you, send it back for a full refund, what more can anyone ask for there are a lot of people that want to discredit these devices, Mainly the power company, because they will loose money, its all about money, there may be some cheapy units that dont work, but my power saver is the real deal, i paid $97.00 for it, saved 111 kWh the first month using it, the proof is in the Pudding 416 Kwh down to 305 kWh in one month, Please dont knock them untill you have personally tried them, that is the fairest way to judge them. I bought one, tested it, it works for me.


please read
http://www.electricsaver1200.com/testimonials.html

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Old 12-21-2010, 12:42 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MustangMan View Post
Based on aviatordave's diagram I did some parts shopping. Capacitors are available for $5 to $10 (for US made) each, the surge protectors are $0.77 each, and a box is $20 to $50. So say $25 to $75 for parts. A rule-of-thumb I once heard quoted was retail price = 4x parts cost. So that means $100 to $300 retail price.
well they cost $97.00 each from the Mfg, what a Steal and free shipping too

http://www.electricsaver1200.com/residential.html

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Old 12-21-2010, 07:50 AM   #21
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I really want to know what lab they tested this in and how they got this data (I know it is PF):



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Old 12-21-2010, 08:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by aviatordave View Post
I really want to know what lab they tested this in and how they got this data (I know it is PF):

Hi Dave Give Glenn a call or e mail him, I have chatted with Glenn a few times on a Commercial 3 phase 800 Amp power saver for a public storage facility that wants one for their business, Great guy to do business with, here is his contact info :

Need Help or Have a Question?

Call Glenn on his cell phone (863)634-1664 (Monday-Friday 9am-9pm EST) or Email us! at Sales@ElectricSaver1200.com

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Old 12-21-2010, 12:22 PM   #23
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Here's how the company says it works..

When a motor in your home starts, it asks your utility company's transformer for power. The demand of electricity from your motor runs through the wiring in your home, to the panel box, traveling to your meter, finally reaching its destination of the transformer and back down to your home again. Throughout this process, the lines/wiring heats up and strains the motor and wiring. The heat generated is called watts.

During a normal electrical process, there is lost energy that you are being billed for by your energy company but are not able to use.

The Electric Saver stores (otherwise lost energy/watts) and releases energy to your motor when needed to function properly. This reduces the amount of heat on the wires and the motors in your home. Reducing this heat will lower your electricity bill and increase the life of your motors in your home. Inductive Motors are in your Refrigerator, Freezer, Washer, Dryer, Ceiling Fans, Air Conditioning Units, etc. If you use the old T-12 Fluorescent Lighting, the ballast is also an inductive load. Anything with a copper winding that creates an electromagnetic field is an inductive load, just like your inverter that turns DC current into AC current.

Using methods from large industrial complexes, The Electric Saver reclaims wasted energy and recycles electrical energy. It protects against power surges and increases the capacity to your electrical panel by causing it to run cooler. By doing so, this saves you money $$$$$!
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:21 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Could you explain it to me? I read the website and it looks like smoke and mirrors and yet another snare for the credulous. They might as well have said: "It's all ball bearings nowadays!"

Okay, I'll stop being coy - this is a sham. how do I know?

An organization like NIST - (the S and T stands for STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY - these cats are big on FACTS) has penned a few words on the viability of these devices as advertised -- Or, rather, the complete lack thereof:

http://www.nist.gov/pml/quantum/power_121509.cfm

And for the as yet unconvinced, the physics behind the debunking:

http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=903669



cheers,
GRU
This is my favorite quote from the second document. And by the way they do work! It is how much they work that is the issue......

Therefore, installation of the capacitor reduces the energy from the utility by 4.4 watts multiplied by the running time of the air conditioner. If the air conditioning unit runs for 12 hours each day, the energy savings will be about 52.8 watt-hours per day. At 20 cents per kilowatt-hour, the money saved by the utility would be approximately 1 cent per day. Since in most parts of the United States air conditioners only operate for less than six months of the year, the utility’s annual savings would be about $1.80 for a single residence.
So for me here in TX where AC does run a great deal of the time and we use fans for helping keep cool, and we have a fridge and washer dryer, all combined I might save $10 a year in juice! So 10 years to recuperate my investment.

And sadly you can't just say my electric bill change X amount from Nov to Dec. My electric bill in Aug = ~$450 but Sep = ~$300 and Nov = $125. That is simply due to temps and how much we run the AC here (and how many batts I charge LOL!). For many of you the numbers are backwards if you have electric heat in the cold areas your winters are expensive and summers fairly cheap. Here where we fluctuate so dramatically on temp (yesterday was 75 today 80 and tomorrow 55!) it is almost impossible to detect savings as the temperature is so variable.

At any rate - they do work - no question. It is how much they work that is the issue. Just plan on taking about 10 years to recuperate your money. And then the next year you have an extra $10 in your pocket - hey howdy!

Again, in life, my daddy taught me a few things:
  • If it seems too good to be true - it very likely is
  • There is no miracle weight loss pill
  • There is no cure for cancer or the common cold
  • You don't have to send someone money, before they can send you a big check because when you win money it is free!
  • And he also taught me nothing in life that is worthwhile is free - how true it is....
Life is good - glad you are happy with your purchase! Me thinks I will get a new Alfa airplane with that $100 savings - in 10 years.

Mike
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:55 PM   #25
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Yes, but I need a safer and more efficacious tinfoil for my little hat....

The aliens ate Cleveland? OMG, my aunt lived there.
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