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Old 01-16-2011, 08:05 AM   #1
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Default Parkzone Sukhoi S26m (Red Bull scheme)

A few weeks ago I won an auction for a PZ Su26m. It was dirt cheap and in ok condition too. I got it back home and replaced the rudder which was more sellotape than depron. I used a takeaway meal tray (butter chicken curry......yum) to fabricate the rudder and filled and sanded until I had a tidy looking plane. I was pretty happy with it except for the lack of color! The red trim didnt do it for me so I decided to do the Red Bull racer finish. I used an airbrush for the paint (acrylics) and Testors decal paper for the all the insignia. The plan now is to get the sim lead for my new Spektrum Dx5e and spend many hours with FMS getting some virtual flying chops before I go to my local paddock. I know this plane is a handful so Im obviously running low rates for now until im more confident.


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Old 01-17-2011, 09:45 AM   #2
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I just made a prop saver from a micro servo horn and it works a treat, so I can try out a few prop combinations. I've also been working on some 'clip on" leading edge extensions to increase the wing area. Ive heard that the wing area mod works great for indoor flyers using limited space and need slower speeds, we'll see I guess!
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:48 AM   #3
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What should the thrust angle for the motor be on this. When i got it the motor pointed a couple of degrees above the horizontal. My other planes motors generally point slightly down, or in the case of my Citabria nearly to the floor!! I presume upward thrust would be countered by more up stick (elevator).
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:23 PM   #4
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Default Red Bull SU 26m

great paint job
Looks like the battery tray has already been made longer so you can mount the battery further toward the tail. I think that was a common mod to get make the stock unit less nose heavy. Most of the people I know flying the plane have also found that the GWS 5043 prop works very well. I also added a couple strips of CF across the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer to make it stronger and add a little more tail weight.
I was very happy with the way mine was flying until I thumbed it nose first into the ground a week ago and broke the prop shaft. Bought a prop adapter that works to get the prop back on without creating a problem with the nose but have not had a chance to fly it since to see if the nose weight addition creates a problem.
I think the thrust angle on mine was the usual down and right when I got it, but with a year plus of repairs etc is a little hard to say exactly at this point.
It really has been a fun little plane. I am trying to decide if it is worth it to tear the motor out and install the stock motor for the SU-26 XP. Was thinking about doing that after I broke the prop shaft, but the LHS was out of stock on that motor when I stopped in.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:02 PM   #5
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Thanks Dumo, Thats what I thought regarding the thrust angles. I re-glued the motor in last night (hot glue), its essentially neutral now and I will see how that goes. Yep Ive also considered the carbon fibre across the elevator too as I can see that the ends of the elevator have been bent previously and I think that when I start running at top speeds i might get "flutter". I already broke the prop shaft as I nose dived the plane before I started modding and broke it. fortunately its easy enough to just CA on a prop onto the remaining shaft. Ive also cured the problem now by making a prop saver, a 10 min job. I cant wait to try out the plane in FMS and am curious to see if the flight characteristics are accurately reproduced. Thanks again Dumo for sharing your experiences. By the way does the SU-26 XP have the p51d motor?
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:01 AM   #6
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Not sure if they are the same motor or not. Different part numbers, I see the UM P51 and T28 share the same motor, but I suspect the SU 26XP may be different.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:05 AM   #7
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Cheers Dumo!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:15 AM   #8
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Hi!
I'm new here, and new to flying. I have bought a few planes, and have a little success on my trainers, and the little micro Albatross bipe. Today, a guy at the field sold me a micro PZ SU-26, bind and fly for $15.00 bucks, including two batteries and charger! Couldn't pass it up.
I'm scared to fly the damn thing, though! The videos show a totally fast, aerobatic plane. It's gonna be a while before I can do any of that stuff!
My question is, can this plane be altered to fly slower and in a more docile manner? Maybe a mechanical decrease ( some sort of thick tape, maybe) for the aileron throw, which is huge right now. Smaller prop?
Maybe another wing to make it a biplane?
Any suggestions?
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:22 AM   #9
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I would try spending some time on a sim with aerobatic planes. Orientation is everyone's main issue with this type of plane (especially me!). Great deal though. Put it away like Ive done and get an intermediate plane with ailerons first. If you want to slow this plane down and create a more floaty ship try increasing the wing area like Ive done- I will post the pics of the mod, which by the way doesn't destroy the original wing.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:38 AM   #10
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Thanks for the quick reply! I do practice on my Clearview sim, and am learning fast.
Looking forward to the pictures of the increased wing area, and how you did it!
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:55 AM   #11
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in my opinion the main challenge with the Su isnt speed, it's actually a very slow flyer due to it's light weight. Videos might make it look faster due to it's small size but in reality it's slow.. The biggest difficulty for anyone with less experience (and for many with lots of experience!) is it's extreme sensitivity to controls. with controls set as per manual with linear movement it's incredibly twitchy and very hard to fly smoothly (or in fact fly at all)

The best way to make the Su more forgiving to fly is to reduce the control throws dramatically.. say 60% or less of recommended values. Then if you have exponential put in abouut 33% expo to soften the control around centre. Once you get used to the model you can increase the throw but even after flying mine fior a while i still find it more pleasant to reduce throws to about 75% of standard values with 33% expo.

Personally I'd not do anything to increase wing area, it's already very lightly loaded and sensitive to any wind when flying outdoors. Increasing wing area will only make the model even more sensitive to wind and will also increase weight thus reducing performance.

Once you are used to the model a brushless conversion is worth considering. as standard the Su doesnt have a lot of surplus power especially after the battery starts depleting (which occurs quickly). A brushless conversion really transforms the model and if you do it with the lightest components you hardly impact flying weight so slow speed handling isnt compomised.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:18 PM   #12
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Default

I agree strongly with JPF's thoughts on the control throws, if your transmitter has a high rate low rate set up you can set the high rate for 100% for futrue use and set your low rates at 50-60% with expo for both. The SU still wil be twitchy the first few times you fly it and can be difficult to see especially when you turn it back towards you.
Is your SU still in the stock configuration? Two of the most common mods that I think help a lot are to change the prop and move the CG back some. The prop change is pretty easy but you need to get a GWS 5043 prop and buy or make some type of adapter. The original prop will unscrew from the shaft. To move the CG back I enlarged the battery tray about 1/2 inch or so to allow the battery wire to stretch out to its full length in the tray. I also added a couple CF strips across the bottom of the horizontal stab; adds a little tail weight as well as makes the stab stronger for those occasional less than picture perfect landings.
Sorry I do not have access to any pics right now, can post some of mine when I get home later if you can not find similar is other postings.
It really is a fun little plane to fly. When you first start with it is very easy to overcontrol. I just finished rebuilding mine from a major mid air at an indoor fly a week ago. Thought about putting the bigger SU-26XP motor in it, but the motor and gear box per se were still OK so just glued them back into place and repaired the rest of the carnage, will find out how it flies the weekend.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:23 PM   #13
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Default Su-26

That's what the guy who sold it told me about the plane being extremely sensitive to the controls, especially ailerons. My TX (and I!) are older; it's a DX5e, and it has a 'Hi' and 'Lo' switch for the throws.
Will setting it on 'Lo' make it appreciably less of a maverick? Also, I asked in my original post, if there was a way to mechanically restrict the aileron travel distance.
Thanks for all the help. I'm re-entering this world, after a 45 year break to raise ungrateful kids! It was all free flight, rubber, and CL back then.
RC is fascinating to me.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:05 PM   #14
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'Lo' rates will help but it depends just how much the throws are reduced. I'm not familiar with the DX5e.. can you program in the degree of throw reduction?

'standard' low throws would likely only reduce movement to about 80% and with no option for exponential then the Su will still be a handful to fly. A Tx with expo is highly desirable for the Su26, many would say compulsory.

Reducing throws mechanically is not straightforward because the servos are linear travel so no option for using a shorter arm. Reducing throw at the aileron horn is not easy either due to the peculiar lever arm arrangement used.

I dare say with practice you would grow accustomed to the extreme sensitivity but the first few flights might be hair raising. When I first tried my Su after a while off RC I honestly thought I'd forgotten how to fly, it was that hard to control. With the controls set up properly and plenty of expo dialled in it's transformed.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:12 PM   #15
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The low rate on the DX5e will help a lot, it sets all of the control throws to 70%, if it were a programable radio I would go for 60, but 70 will help a lot also. The 5e does not offer expo, but there are a lot of people who fly without that so should be OK

The rudder and elevator control arms have multiple holes so you can adjust the physical control throw, moving the arm in closer to the control surface will reduce the amount of surface travel, but the aileron does not have that. I have my rudder and elevator control points set at the second in from the outside, which I think is the stock position. I would try the low rate in the stock positions and see how it works for you, adjust them in as you need to if it is too twitchy.
I do not know of anything I would do to try to limit the physical travel of the ailerons independent of the servos.
I attached a picture of mine showing the battery position and the CF on the tail.


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Old 02-01-2011, 07:14 PM   #16
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Default SU-26

You're right. The DX5e throw switch doesn't do a lot for this plane. The seller told me that, even with the 'exponential' on his expensive TX, it was hard to control the roll on this extremely cute, but increasingly irritating little plane!
I think I might have to break down and buy a 'real' transmitter. Maybe...
I will have to wait for a warmer, windless day to try it out. Not too sure I will be successful indoors at first. Too much for my already frazzled old nerves.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:17 PM   #17
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Default wrong picture

meant to put this picture up
I agree with JPF it will be a handful at first, the more sim time you have the better and a lot depends on what you have flown before.
What sim are you running? I have a couple plans I use on Real Flight that are pretty good tp practice with.


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Old 02-01-2011, 07:24 PM   #18
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Default SU-26

I found the Clearview simulator to be excellent for the price of $39.95.And their recent free upgrade ahs inproved it even more. I'm using a cheapy TX controller from ebay, but looking desperately for the right cable (DX5e to USB) to get more 'professional' results.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:29 PM   #19
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Default SU-26

Clearview has a lot of great planes and landscapes, too. There are a bunch of user created planes and fields you can download, and I already downloaded the micro SU-26 model.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dumo01 View Post
The rudder and elevator control arms have multiple holes so you can adjust the physical control throw, moving the arm in closer to the control surface will reduce the amount of surface travel,
just to clarify and prevent anyone making the situation worse...

Moving the pushrod onto a hole position closer to the surface will INCREASE throw, not reduce it. to reduce it you need to move the pushrod outward on the horn. Opposite applies on the servo end, but that's not an option with linear servos.

Here are some photos of my Brushless converted Su. Notable features:
  • 5g brushless motor.
  • 2cell lipo mounted in an extended belly slot.
  • Carbon stiffeners in both elevator and rudder.
All up weight with brushless conversion and carbon stiffeners is 38g, only a couple of grams up on stock... flies like you would expect

Steve


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Old 02-01-2011, 07:43 PM   #21
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Default SU-26

Someone suggested a brushless motor. What would that change about the planes, and ( ignorance alert!) what is in the plane now?
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
just to clarify and prevent anyone making the situation worse...

Moving the pushrod onto a hole position closer to the surface will INCREASE throw, not reduce it. to reduce it you need to move the pushrod outward on the horn. Opposite applies on the servo end, but that's not an option with linear servos.

Here are some photos of my Brushless converted Su. Notable features:
  • 5g brushless motor.
  • 2cell lipo mounted in an extended belly slot.
  • Carbon stiffeners in both elevator and rudder.
All up weight with brushless conversion and carbon stiffeners is 38g, only a couple of grams up on stock... flies like you would expect

Steve
My bad, Steve is absolutely correct on the arm adjust. I thought about that twice when I typed it and still got it backwards

Steve: very nice motor conversion, yours should fly like what people were hoping for when it came out. Are you still using the stock receiver/ controller?
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:36 PM   #23
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The Rx is stock but a small brushless ESC is added. The standard Rx is made with inbuilt functionality to allow it to be re-programmed to disable the onboard brushed controller and enable an external brushless ESC.

All the bits can be picked up separately but it worked out much easier and probably cheaper to pick up a complete conversion package from Dan Scharlach: dblove98@myfairpoint.net

Steve
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ib42 View Post
Someone suggested a brushless motor. What would that change about the planes, and ( ignorance alert!) what is in the plane now?
As stock the Su26 and the new 'XP' version have brushed motors with a reduction gearbox. Brushless conversion, as noted above, requires a new speed controller and if you want a serious gain in performance then you need to up the voltage by going to a two cell battery. The easiest way to do it is buy the kit off Dan.

Give it a go as standard first.. plenty of fun to be had with the standard motor.

Steve
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:22 AM   #25
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Yeah nice conversion Jet! Ive put all the throws to the outer holes for less movement. As for the increased wing area idea some local guys did it to their SU26s for indoor flying and this made them floaty
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