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Old 01-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #1
CHELLIE
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Talking Beginners, You Will Crash

And Thats the Truth Now why did I say That Ok here is Why, I want to let you know that when you start out with RC Aircraft, you are going to Crash, and Crash Alot, Untill you get the Hang of Flying, Soooo with that in Mind, Your First RC Plane should be a Plane thats as Crash worthy as possible, and one great Plane to get is a Easystar, Why because its made of a very Durable foam that in most cases will absorb a crash, and if it does break, it can be glued up again and flown real quick to keep you in the air, its a power Glider, and it flies slow, giving you time to think of what your doing, it has the motor in the back and up out of the way, so that protects your prop from breaking, If you buy a plane, and are afraid to Crash it, and make it not look so Pretty Anymore this Hobby is not for you your first plane is going to be your THRASHER PLANE, its going to take the abuse of Learning, its Going to Look Like HELL-O when your done Learning its going to teach you a lot about how to make repairs It will be your Flying Instructor and after your done with Her, give her a Good Toss in the Round File your second plane can be a little nicer, but its going to Crash too, and hopefully not as much as the first Plane Did you will have about 4 to 5 Planes under your belt as they say, before you get good, and are able to take your plane back home in one Piece Its It Worth it You Bet it is, when you are able to take off, fly and Land, You will have a Big Grin from Ear to Ear that not even a 2x4 can smack it off your Silly Mug Its Called Earning your Wings you have to want it Bad and go for it, like you did to your Girl friend or Wife or Both and before you try to Take off into the Wild Blue Yonder, get and Use a Simulator and if your lucky, get some help from a RC Club or anyone who is into RC in your area, OK, I will get off this Soap Box Now Take care and Have fun, Chellie

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Old 01-29-2011, 10:41 AM   #2
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The good news is that once you crash them to death, you can always rebuild them into something new, thanks to the twin miracles of bamboo skewers and Gorilla Glue.

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Old 01-29-2011, 01:23 PM   #3
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Very good point Chellie.

I might add just one thing. Even after 4 or 5 planes and you can take them up and bring them down in one piece, smiling the entire time, you're still going to crash every once in awhile.


These things all have life spans.


The only original piece I have left on my first plane is a servo. Everything else has been replaced at least once.

Cheesy poofs are what Yankees get when they eat Southen Food!! bub, steve
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:36 PM   #4
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We have a brand new flyer late summer, yes we were there on the first landings etc till he soon got the feel for flight, then landed etc on his own. Infact his Super Cub is nearly intact, other than a little crack on his cowling.

Point I'm making is seek an experienced pilot, your likely to keep the original model flying and less stress on the learning curve.

Infact have a brief video clip on his earlier take off just missing a low tree, and then starting to stall over midfield, then he levels off and flys ! Perhaps luck helps as well, flys much better now and actually still in disbelief how well he's done, great Job there Jim ! Was fighting some winds as well !

Clip Jim's early flights:

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:38 PM   #5
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I think Chellie is being a little pessimistic about the follow up ... but generally I agree.

I used to teach nearly every visit to flight site ... making my day extremely rewarding ... about 50% my time getting another into the air. Not only the 'in-air' but also 'on-ground' stuff as it was the days when glow engines dominated the scene.

I pride myself that most who I taught kept their first machine reasonably intact and second model usually was only damaged due other factors. No joke - I had a knack I suppose of getting people up and running quite quickly. If it was a 3ch trainer ... usually after first day - I had them looking to modify to 4ch ... not being a believer in wallowing about the sky !

A learn it alone person of course is going to have a lot of heart-ache getting through the process .... and I know very well - as I tried it ... then got the message that help was needed. I learnt my flying on slope / ridge soarers where you were keeping the craft aloft by use of the air flow - not power. It helped me a lot. I still to this day reckon a lot of power flyers should try it ...

I can remember my first day launching out ... skimming the slope ... rising up ... shallow dive and up .. over in a nice loop ... skimming along slope again ... after a few more turns, loops, rolls ... nice wide flat turn in behind and let her softly sink to ground just a few feet to side of me. Heart in mouth ... smile so wide I could swallowed an elephant ! Guy who taught me just smiled, little nod of the head and said ... now you can fly - go practice .... there's more yet.

That was the final touch to 'school' - that it doesn't stop ... no matter how well we learn - we still have more to learn.

Sadly John passed away some years ago and I lost a very dear friend, a friend who I never knew until I needed help to fly. There's more to this than just flying a model ...

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:53 PM   #6
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Default Crash? What crash?

I have no idea what you're talking about! :-)


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Old 01-29-2011, 03:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by NJSwede View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about! :-)

" Just a flesh wound " LOL. little epoxy, maybe some tape and good as new.
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Old 01-29-2011, 04:15 PM   #8
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I have a HZ Champ that I have flown about 20 times now. That is after I tried my bigger Cub with no success! Last week I did my 1st loops and this morning, very early - calm wind, I did my 1st rolling takeoff. Did 3 of them in fact. Hand launches are much easier. Why? Is it because the a/c is already flying when it leaves your hand? That is what I presume. I also did my 1st few landings on a hard surface. I did maybe 5 landings and only 1 was a nose over. Got the flair finally, I had been pulling back a bit too much and stalling with a 3 point thump ... but UPRIGHT and on the wheels. The last few were rolling out and taxiing back to me. BTW, that tail wheel steering is touchy! I suppose I'll have to relearn the landing again because I'll have forgotten what I did right! I was doing them on the full rate on the controls. Trying to prepare myself for the bigger Cub. Now the breeze is up a bit so I can't go back out.
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wrongway-Feldman View Post
" Just a flesh wound " LOL. little epoxy, maybe some tape and good as new.
Oh yeah, it's back to prime condition. It took me a while to fix it though, since I had to do some reconstructive surgery around the battery box. If there's one thing that's bad quality on the HZ SC, it's the way they've fitted the battery box. One hard landing, and the whole thing comes out and shatters the foam around it so there's nothing to hold it.

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Old 01-29-2011, 06:08 PM   #10
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Repair examples - I like foam - its so easy to repair compared to my old days with balsa etc. :

Refit different motor mount etc. :





back on and ready to clean up ...





Tail needed sorting as well ...





That plane has been hacked, crashed, mod'd, rebuilt .... you name it and today looks like this :






I agree that she could look better, but to be honest as it's not a true concourse machine and it's for flying not standing ... it suits me ! At least when others see it - they know its a working model - not just a show-piece.

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Old 01-29-2011, 07:08 PM   #11
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When I started in model airplanes, every thing was balsa & tissue, when you had a crash, you needed a shopping bag to pick up the 100-200+ pieces that were blown all over the place. I had a control line combat plane, built super light, it hit the ground so hard, the cloud of pieces was 8' diameter. all that was left after the wind blew the dust away was the motor, bellcrank & wires, and some of the larger pieces of balsa. a lot of the plane simply drifted away.

Today with foam planes, from kits or ARFs they just don't break up like that. These planes are so easy to repair it is amazing, I have blown my 3D foam trainer into 30-40 pieces about 5 times, and had it ready to fly again the next day. I can't even count the times I have done minor damage, and fixed it at the field, and kept flying.

Beginners will crash just like Chellie says, it is simply part of learning, like falling down when kids are learning to walk, or falling down learning to ride a bike. If they think they are so gifted that they won't crash, they are only fooling themselves.

If you can't stand the crash, get off the runway.

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You become a master at repair.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
When I started in model airplanes, every thing was balsa & tissue, when you had a crash, you needed a shopping bag to pick up the 100-200+ pieces that were blown all over the place. I had a control line combat plane, built super light, it hit the ground so hard, the cloud of pieces was 8' diameter. all that was left after the wind blew the dust away was the motor, bellcrank & wires, and some of the larger pieces of balsa. a lot of the plane simply drifted away.

Today with foam planes, from kits or ARFs they just don't break up like that. These planes are so easy to repair it is amazing, I have blown my 3D foam trainer into 30-40 pieces about 5 times, and had it ready to fly again the next day. I can't even count the times I have done minor damage, and fixed it at the field, and kept flying.

Beginners will crash just like Chellie says, it is simply part of learning, like falling down when kids are learning to walk, or falling down learning to ride a bike. If they think they are so gifted that they won't crash, they are only fooling themselves.

If you can't stand the crash, get off the runway.
It was normal to have a supermarket plastic bag in pocket just in case !! Know it well ..... I had a beautiful Royal P51D which I had brought back from US to UK ... Spent loving care building the model from the kit. Flaps, retracts ... cracking model.
3rd flight - Rx battery pack failed where a cells tag broke away cutting power to Rx. She went in with throttle still open ... (IC glow HB51) .... spreading wreckage far and wide.

I find it amazing the crashes I have with foam now and still fly next day ... longest time to repair incl. glue time was 2hrs. That was ripped out wing bolt fixing area in fuselage, centre part of wing T/E from aileron rods back torn out, fuselage split at fwd part of cockpit, motor mount split, wing L/E fixing / alignment pins snapped of .....
Only reason I didn't go back out flying same day was sun had set !

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Old 01-29-2011, 10:29 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
It was normal to have a supermarket plastic bag in pocket just in case !! Know it well ..... I had a beautiful Royal P51D which I had brought back from US to UK ... Spent loving care building the model from the kit. Flaps, retracts ... cracking model.
3rd flight - Rx battery pack failed where a cells tag broke away cutting power to Rx. She went in with throttle still open ... (IC glow HB51) .... spreading wreckage far and wide.

I find it amazing the crashes I have with foam now and still fly next day ... longest time to repair incl. glue time was 2hrs. That was ripped out wing bolt fixing area in fuselage, centre part of wing T/E from aileron rods back torn out, fuselage split at fwd part of cockpit, motor mount split, wing L/E fixing / alignment pins snapped of .....
Only reason I didn't go back out flying same day was sun had set !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aGBXrJ6e34


Ahhh yes, the good old times with a Plastic trash bag to pick up the pieces
I have crashed a lot at first, so i know others will crash too, and i had a instructor helping me a little, but i mostly learned with a 2 meter glider with a power pod and a 049 engine, many a time i picked up small pieces of balsa, then i went to foam planes, and there were fewer pieces to pick up I still do crash from time to time, but most of my crashes now days are due to mech. failure like a servo locking up, that was my last crashes problem, aileron servo froze on me, if i would just have left the ailerons alone and used the rudder to get it back in Maybe that would have saved it Take care and have fun, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:57 PM   #14
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The last time i crashed, i did not charge my hanger 9 - 80 inch crop duster up for the reciever and put it on a fast charge at the field. It charged for a little bit and then my charger beebed to let me know it was full. I started it up and flew 2 turns around and was doing a touch and go with flaps down ,then coming in at a not to steap angle every thing froze on the plane and hit the ground pretty good . It knocked the motor out and took off part of the fire wall. I check the batteries and they were dead. I then took the battrie out and hooked it up to my charger and it charged for a bit then it beebed, but it beebed to tell my that my 12 volt batterie was dead and could not charge any thing ,daaaaa. from now on i test them before i fly and dont listen to my charger. I put the plane in the closet for a time out and its been there ever since, but i will repair it soon.lol joe
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:05 AM   #15
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I am a newb and entirely self-taught. No sims. No mentors. Just chuck it up there and try to fly it.

I've had surprisingly few crashes (I'm not counting the occasional nose-over on landing...) but yeah - if you're gonna fly 'em, you're gonna crash 'em. I love foamies cuz I can fix 'em again when I do.

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Old 01-30-2011, 02:01 AM   #16
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I think it's harder to convince a newcomer to the hobby, especially one who's young and not well rounded enough to accept that they will be inept at first. I remember when I was in my mid teens, and very resistant to advice. I think it takes practice to listen and learn just as it does to fly the planes.

Tom
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:29 AM   #17
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Default Everybody will crash

Everyone will crash, even the experts do. One of the new guys at the flying field and he would not fly without a buddy box for fear of a crash. Two of the experts at the field crashed that morning and he suddenly got it, everybody crashes!!! Now he is really doing well. As for me, I have been in trees, done wingtip rolls and even broke the nose off my EasyStar. Everybody is right, some CA or epoxy and she is good as new. If you don't want to crash then don't fly. Also get very comfortable with your first plane before moving on to the second. You can go out and buy the second but don't fly it until you feel that you are really ready to fly it.
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:35 PM   #18
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I concur with everyone that even Masters at the hobby will crash, but only with an act of God!

I too am a self taught RC modeler. I started this hobby way out on left field. What I mean is, I bought a used Airtronics Super Radio for 70 bucks New... I figure I will use it on many airplanes at the same time.. I also bought 3 RX for it.. I bought a handful of servos.. Started collecting .pdf plans here and at rcgroups. I build my very first model and guess what it was? It was a mid prop pusher--- Golem's Plane-Blu F-22 Link--- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Blu+F+22

My first model was home built with free plans..







My very first Kit was E-Flight Funtana 300 I bought on ebay for 20 bucks
The reverse engineering of the Funtana 300
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1108238


Many other profile builds and plenty of crashes later, I venture into the Ducted fan area..

My second kit was a Sapac 70mm Ducted Fan Gripen.. Yes, that was my second store bought kit.... has 5 flights on it..



I must have saved hundreds by learning to fly with home build models!!

Just chuck it and punch it!

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Old 01-31-2011, 03:34 PM   #19
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Mmm... Me being a Swede, you know how bad I want that JAS-39 Gripen. Unfortunately, it'll probably be a year (or more) before I'd be ready to fly it.

I was there when a full size one crashed during the Stockholm Water Festival in front of a million spectators back in the 90s. The pilot overcompensated and stalled the aircraft in a way the computer hadn't been programmed to handle, so it pretty much shut down, with is a bad thing in a FBW aircraft. It went into a flat spin and crashed only feet away from the 10,000 spectators standing on the Västerbron bridge. An absolute miracle no one got hurt, as the city was so crowded with festival visitors that it was hard to find a single unoccupied square foot. But the sound of a million people cheering and then suddenly turning silent was an interesting experience...

I'd be interested in knowing how the RC version of it flies, since the full size is inherently unstable and 100% fly-by-wire.

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Old 01-31-2011, 04:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by NJSwede View Post
Mmm... Me being a Swede, you know how bad I want that JAS-39 Gripen.
I'd be interested in knowing how the RC version of it flies, since the full size is inherently unstable and 100% fly-by-wire.
I have one. Its not my favorite, but it is interesting. It fly's "High Alpha" quite impressively. Agreed, mine is factory stock and lacking in the power department, with the small battery compartment its not real condusive to dropping in a larger pack for more than a 3 minute flight either.

Here is a review on the version I have:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43987

The Gripen is a looker, gets attention, but fly's marginally with the factory power. It does not impress, but it does fly nicely.

Outfit it with a better power set, improve the battery size, and you'd have a much more fun plane IMO.

Electricity... It's not just for light bulbs anymore.

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Old 01-31-2011, 10:21 PM   #21
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Angry Could you pass me the glue, please?

Aaargh!!! Just when I though I had gotten past the phase of really stupid crashes, I go and do something idiotic. After and absolutely delightful flight with the SuperCub I come in for what seems to be a perfect landing. Nicely lined up, perfect speed, lots of runway left. Then, when I'm about 6' off the ground, I pull of the most moronic fumble and slam the plane into the ground, nose first. I can't even tell you what I did and why. (Can I blame really frozen thumbs, maybe?)

Thank God for glue! I'll get her airworthy in less than 30 minutes once I get some time...

Moral of the story: I guess Chellie is right. Beginners *do* crash their planes!

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Old 01-31-2011, 11:07 PM   #22
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I'll still cast my vote for pod-boom construction with V tail and pusher prop configuration and rubber band attached high foam wing. Much less damage when nosing in compared to Supercub or Champ. Original challenger or AB3 from HobbyZone was a great plane to learn on. (and with a 3S1200 mah lipo it had lots of power and a great glide)

Clint

Current - Ventura, HZ SuperCub-Freedom-Swift-AB3, PZ Typhoon, T-28 Trojan, Radian, AeroAce Biplane
Maiden - F-27C Stryker
10 years Ago - ElectroSoar 2M Glider, 2M Foam Glider, Mirage 550
Retired - Sky Fly, Red Hawk, Extreme, Challenger
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:46 AM   #23
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When I started to fly I crashed a lot but it was on a flight sim. After a few winter months of sim practice I flew my brand new balsa Hobbico Electristar just like I had flowen before. That was 5 years ago and the Estar is still going strong always landing on its wheels or floats. It wasn't until I thought I was a good pilot that I started crashing. I bought planes beyond my ability and tried to do dumb things to impress fellow pilots. My foam planes are easy to fix but they always look fixed. My balsa planes take a lot longer to fix but when they are done they look like it never happened. I like the way balsa flys much better.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:05 AM   #24
road king 97
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They made a plane about 20 years ago or more that was called a dura plane .lol It was made out of pvc and metal . It had the glide path of a brick and looked bad sitting or flying. I flew one once and you had to fly it fast or it would not fly and you could hit a fence and fly it again. joe
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:28 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
They made a plane about 20 years ago or more that was called a dura plane .lol It was made out of pvc and metal . It had the glide path of a brick and looked bad sitting or flying. I flew one once and you had to fly it fast or it would not fly and you could hit a fence and fly it again. joe
Ahhh Yes the duraplane, it looked Ugly as heck, but it flew very well that was the first plane that taught me how to fly in 25 MPH wind, it had a 40 nitro engine in it, and i could land it like a heli when the wing was up, it was a lot of fun, and took a lot of abuse, Take care, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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