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Old 02-25-2011, 02:57 AM   #1
S.R.G.
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info Will this CARBON FIBER UM fly?

Ok guys, I am currently on a project to create a carbon fiber ultra micro P-51. Below is the math calculations:


35 grams by stock

Wing = 5.8 grams
Body - 5.4 grams (1.6 top + 2.8 bottom + 1 'bulge')
Tail = 1.1 (.4 vertical + .7 horizontal)
Total = 12.3 grams



Rectangle - 16 in L, 4 in W
64 square inches
~.05 square yards

2.4 oz/yard
.12 oz
3.4 grams dry

.73 oz/yard
.04 oz
1.13 grams dry

4.53 grams dry total
.
.
1:1 = ~10
1:1.2 = ~11
10 - 11 grams for wing

Difference against original part: 4.2 - 5.2 grams



Cylinder - 12 in L , 2 in D
82 square inches
.064 square yards

2.4 oz/yard
0.1536 oz
4.36 grams

.73 oz/yard
0.04672 oz
1.33 grams

5.69 grams dry total
.
.
1:1 = ~11.38
1:1.2 = ~12.52
11.4 - 13 grams for body

Difference against original part: 6 - 7.6 grams



CF total low = 11.4 + 10 + 3 = 24.4 grams
CF total high = 11 + 13 + 3 = 27 grams

Difference low = 24.4 - 11.2 = 12.1 grams
Difference high = 27 - 11.2 = 14.7 grams

Added weight due to CF = 12.1 - 14.7 grams

Powerplant:

AP05
XP-3A
1 cell



I really don't know if it will fly . I added 8 grams to my P-51 and did some test flights…but 5 grams more?

Thinking to cut down weight downsize the body (top half…maybe lessen the canopy size). Any ideas?

If impossible, direction will change and this thread will be deleted. Instead, I will just make some jets. Not my cup of tea but want to make an RC plane out of CF :p

Anyone have links to buy a 30 mm EDF airframe?
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:04 AM   #2
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sounds like a interesting project but I think CF just weights to much for a micro plane with the resin and all, foam or balsa is the best way to go with a micro or even paperstock, but i really think CF is to heavy in building a mirco plane. Just my 2 cents worth, Take care, Chellie

BTW, 50mm is about the smallest cf fuselage I belive you will be able to find, 30mm is just to small and weights to much

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:10 AM   #3
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Thanks for the feedback! Did you see the calculations above, with focus on the weight differences? My main concern is whether it will fly or not. For the first build, I plan to just create the tail and wing only entirely out of CF.

And all materials but CF and fiberglass is out of the question. I have over 3000 square inches of CF ready to go...just need to get it down to a fly or not.

The concentration is not on building one out of some material, but rather make one out of CF
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:22 AM   #4
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http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...ight=cf+funjet

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:32 AM   #5
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And purpose of that link was not stated...but I see the guys build...reason for link?
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
And purpose of that link was not stated...but I see the guys build...reason for link?
to show a size of a plane that will be compatable with cf and its weight

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:05 AM   #7
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What is the wingspan on that jet?
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:07 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
What is the wingspan on that jet?
31-1/2" wingspan, 28-3/4" long, 233 sq. in. wing area, 22 oz. flying weight. Multiplex introduces the easy way to fly fast with the FunJET. Blazing across the sky has never been more fun! Gone are the days of the hard to launch, hard to land, fragile jets. The FunJET goes from launch to super ballistic in a flash yet is docile at slow speeds making landings gentle. Multiplex ELAPOR Foam construction gives the FunJET unparalleled durability and strength. Recommended Equipment: 300 watt 28mm inrunner brushless motor, 35 - 40 amp speed control, 4.75 x 4.75 prop, 3S 2500 mAh LiPo battery, 2 HS-65HB servos, Mini 6S or Neutron 6 receiver.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:12 AM   #9
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here is a nice fiberglass plane that looks a little like a p51 at a great price too, one could build this from CF too

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14417

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:23 AM   #10
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I am looking to make a F-16 50mm EDF. Estimates showing 100grams for the body and wings only...that light enough?
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
I am looking to make a F-16 50mm EDF. Estimates showing 100grams for the body and wings only...that light enough?
depending on the wing span and wing area, and wing load, it should work Great you might like this S.R.G.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243359


Wingspan:31"Wing Area:200 sq. in. not counting fuselageWeight:less than 4 lb.Length:43"Wing Loading:~30 oz/sq. ft.Servos:JR micro digitalBattery:16-c 1700mAh NiCdMotor:Custom, built into fan, includedESC:Jeti 70A, includedLaunch system:bungee, includedManufacturer:JePe

The Jepe F16 is an all fiberglass and carbon fiber model made by Jean-Paul Schlosser in the Netherlands. My 16-year-old son Adam learned of this model by word of mouth and searching the internet; we haven’t seen any ads in any magazine nor ads on any website. The reputation of this model, as described by other modelers, was exceptional. More research indicated that this high-quality kit came with a high-quality price tag; the kit, along with the custom-manufactured motor, fan, a matching Jeti speed control and a special bungee launch system would cost more than $1,500.00 (Canadian funds)!
Adam decided that a summer job would earn enough money to purchase the complete kit (and he’d be able to put some away). I told him that if he worked and paid for the kit, I’d pay for the needed 16 cell battery pack. We already had proper servos and a receiver.
Other people who have dealt with JePe warned us that we should not expect overnight delivery. It took 3 months for the kit to be delivered! When we finally received it, it was packed in a large protective box, and all components were in good condition. Closer examination revealed that the kit was of exceptional quality. The fuselage was a combination of very light fiberglass and carbon fiber. The wings, stabilizer and fin were of an extremely light composition sandwich of fiberglass, end grain balsa and another layer of fiberglass. All components had fine detail work in relief -- panel lines, rivets, etc. The kit also included a perfectly fitting canopy, a scale styrofoam pilot, ultra-thin nylon decals, and a detailed instruction manual.

Assembly

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Old 02-25-2011, 04:55 AM   #12
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some links

http://www.ductedfans.com/Jepe_F_16_Jepe_USA_.com.html

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Old 02-25-2011, 05:13 AM   #13
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Hmmm, this would make a nice pattern for your F-16 CF project, its designed for a 55MM EDF.

http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_inf...roducts_id=555




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Old 02-25-2011, 05:13 AM   #14
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Ok...help me on this...I cannot get an accurate area on the wings...nor a wing load...

Let me say not an experience flyer, rather a builder. I want to build the plane and know if it is doable...
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Hmmm, this would make a nice pattern for your F-16 CF project, its designed for a 55MM EDF.

http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_inf...roducts_id=555



Nice!!!

What about the one I posted?



Would it work? MUCH cheaper airframe.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
Ok...help me on this...I cannot get an accurate area on the wings...nor a wing load...

Let me say not an experience flyer, rather a builder. I want to build the plane and know if it is doable...
Hi, I use this web site/Link a lot, it has helped me to build my planes

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ders/index.htm

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ng_loading.htm

http://adamone.rchomepage.com/

http://www.ehow.com/how_5868257_figu...-airplane.html

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:40 AM   #17
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I am getting a rough 6.77260069 oz./ft2...flyable?
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:51 AM   #18
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Wow...that is off...idk what I am doing...
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:59 AM   #19
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I REALLY DONT GET IT...

I did the wing load for this plane:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186897

It is around 14 oz per square inch...

What I did it for the mini F-16 plane and have some super rough estimates:

plane wing area...120 square inches
weight estimate...150 grams=.331 lbs
It is around 7.6 oz per square inch...

So this tells me? Sorry I am dumb on this and brain toasted from lack of sleep (need the weekend).
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
I REALLY DONT GET IT...

I did the wing load for this plane:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186897

It is around 14 oz per square inch...

What I did it for the mini F-16 plane and have some super rough estimates:

plane wing area...120 square inches
weight estimate...150 grams=.331 lbs
It is around 7.6 oz per square inch...

So this tells me? Sorry I am dumb on this and brain toasted from lack of sleep (need the weekend).
the wing loading is not all that easy to figure out I have trouble with it too,

wing loading is the loaded weight of the aircraft divided by the area of the wing.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:47 AM   #21
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Lol, thanks!

By the way, between these two, which would YOU use as a mold?

Also one has the wing load and flying weight listed and let me say that flying weight is a lot!!! I should be in good shape (talking about the second one here).

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=12614

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14346
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
Lol, thanks!

By the way, between these two, which would YOU use as a mold?

Also one has the wing load and flying weight listed and let me say that flying weight is a lot!!! I should be in good shape (talking about the second one here).

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=12614

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14346
I like the first one better, it looks a little more realistic, and it comes with a 55mm EDF and ESC either one will work well for a mold and your going to be making it super lite, so they both should be fine to use.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:59 AM   #23
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Well, I am buying the airframe only...

And I was also looking at wingspan vs length and everything.

With that in mind, the first or second one? Buying AIRFRAME ONLY.

Thanks by the way for all your advice!!!
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:05 AM   #24
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That one for sure! I like it better. Will have to make a full mold of it I guess to get my two halves...going to be nasty!

Anyways, here is a swarm link for it if you want to help a guy out

http://www.hobbyking.com/SwarmSale.asp?id=177006

Thanks!
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by S.R.G. View Post
Well, I am buying the airframe only...

And I was also looking at wingspan vs length and everything.

With that in mind, the first or second one? Buying AIRFRAME ONLY.

Thanks by the way for all your advice!!!
We are All always glad to help out here on wattflyers If we can, Gee, I have been in this wonderful Hobby for over 40 years, yes i know, i look 29 in my pic you can always make the wing a little wider/bigger to help with the wing loading, and still have it look original, that will help with the wing loading.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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