Will this CARBON FIBER UM fly?

[S.R.G.]

Awesome! And my overestimate gives like 150 grams for the airframe...then 150 grams for the wrest...and still under 325 g flying weight! This is the same weight rated on Venom's website! Sweet.

By the way, use Gmail at all for email/chat? Would like some live feedback and tips.

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by S.R.G.

That one for sure! I like it better. Will have to make a full mold of it I guess to get my two halves...going to be nasty!

Anyways, here is a swarm link for it if you want to help a guy out

http://www.hobbyking.com/SwarmSale.asp?id=177006

Thanks!

DONE

[S.R.G.]

Now just verify that bad boy By the way, if I make a CF airframe would you be interested in one for shipping cost? All I want is testers and feedback Then I will compensate for shipping to and from.

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by S.R.G.

Now just verify that bad boy By the way, if I make a CF airframe would you be interested in one for shipping cost? All I want is testers and feedback Then I will compensate for shipping to and from.

sure that sounds great, I would love to test one out, BTW I made a swarm sale Thread, so you should get your e mail code soon from HK, i know a lot of people are going to want one of these for $17.40

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60430

[CHELLIE]

S.R.G. what RC planes do you have and have flown, EDF Jets take a lot more rolling area to get airborn because they have a small wing and EDF are not all that powerful, most of my planes have a 2 to 1 power ratio I like to go fast

[S.R.G.]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

S.R.G. what RC planes do you have and have flown, EDF Jets take a lot more rolling area to get airborn because they have a small wing and EDF are not all that powerful, most of my planes have a 2 to 1 power ratio I like to go fast

NEVER flown an EDF. I want to make them as light as possible and same or lighter than original. I would love to learn to fly them, but never had the chance. Where did this come from? haha

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by S.R.G.

NEVER flown an EDF. I want to make them as light as possible and same or lighter than original. I would love to learn to fly them, but never had the chance. Where did this come from? haha

I was just wondering if you have flown EDF jets before, because they are a lot different than a plane they take a little getting used too, even the Pusher Funjet took a little getting used to, I made a Trainer Funjet to get used to flying my original funjet to learn its flying traits, My funjet goes 103 MPH
just a suggestion, you may want to buy 2 F-16 and learn to fly the foam edf, to learn the traits of a edf jet, here are a few, longer faster roll off the ground, faster landing speeds, go up before turning, jets dont turn flat very well keep the jet close to you, they go fast and get small real real quick and they dont respond very fast to the throttle being pushed to full throttle so you have to keep your speed up at all times.

[CHELLIE]

Hi S.R.G. I was studing your original post and I dont think the original CF plane will be able to fly, to heavy and not enough power IMHO, but with a 2 cell 240mah lipo, maybe, it took me a little while to study this.

35 grams by stock

Wing = 5.8 grams
Body - 5.4 grams (1.6 top + 2.8 bottom + 1 'bulge')
Tail = 1.1 (.4 vertical + .7 horizontal)
Total = 12.3 grams



Rectangle - 16 in L, 4 in W
64 square inches
~.05 square yards

2.4 oz/yard
.12 oz
3.4 grams dry

.73 oz/yard
.04 oz
1.13 grams dry

4.53 grams dry total
.
.
1:1 = ~10
1:1.2 = ~11
10 - 11 grams for wing

Difference against original part: 4.2 - 5.2 grams



Cylinder - 12 in L , 2 in D
82 square inches
.064 square yards

2.4 oz/yard
0.1536 oz
4.36 grams

.73 oz/yard
0.04672 oz
1.33 grams

5.69 grams dry total
.
.
1:1 = ~11.38
1:1.2 = ~12.52
11.4 - 13 grams for body

Difference against original part: 6 - 7.6 grams



CF total low = 11.4 + 10 + 3 = 24.4 grams
CF total high = 11 + 13 + 3 = 27 grams

Difference low = 24.4 - 11.2 = 12.1 grams
Difference high = 27 - 11.2 = 14.7 grams

Added weight due to CF = 12.1 - 14.7 grams

Powerplant:

AP05
XP-3A
1 cell

maybe with a 2 cell 240mah lipo it might be doable. and make the main wing a little bigger and wider for more area, to carry the extra CF and battery weight. just my 2 cents worth. see video below of a PZ P-51 micro on 2 cells


micro p-51
Specifications
Wingspan: 15.8 in (401mm)
Overall Length: 14.3 in (363mm)
Flying Weight: 1.22 oz (34.6 g)
Motor Size: 8.5mm brushed motor (installed)
Radio: ParkZone with Spektrum 2.4GHz DSM2 and Spektrum AR6400 reciever (installed)
Servos: Spektrum 1.5-Gram (SPMAS2000)
CG (center of gravity): 35mm from leading edge of wing at the fuselage
Prop Size: 130mm x 70mm
Recommended Battery: 3.7V 120mAh Li-Po (included)

[CHELLIE]

your CF p-51 @ 53 grams or 1.87 oz and 64 sq inches, working with mircos is kinda new to me but the wing loading is all the same

[StephenW]

A little extra advise ,if you do go carbon then be aware that it does effect radio reception its called carbon shadow . 2.4 Ghz does have trouble because of the whisker antenna and over here its 36mhz but 72mhz will be affected in the same way . The RX antenna must be clear of the carbon or you will have shadow and loose contact . This is not conjecture or a wives tale this is fact
Cheers
SteveW I fly carbon mouldies

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by StephenW

A little extra advise ,if you do go carbon then be aware that it does effect radio reception its called carbon shadow . 2.4 Ghz does have trouble because of the whisker antenna and over here its 36mhz but 72mhz will be affected in the same way . The RX antenna must be clear of the carbon or you will have shadow and loose contact . This is not conjecture or a wives tale this is fact
Cheers
SteveW I fly carbon mouldies

Hi Steve you are so right about the CF and receivers, thank you for the heads up Take care and have fun, Chellie

[CHELLIE]

Parkzone Micro P-51

and a 2 cell 240mah lipo on a champ, I am not sure if the lipos are hooked in series or parallel, I am checking with the planes owner, i will get back to you when i find out more info.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1360582

[Bill G]

Maybe not quite what you are thinking, but the Guillows 17" P51 can build very light, especially when they give you lighter wood. I built one from a kit with good wood as a rubber plane some years back. My dentist now has it, but if I had used lighter covering, I would have kept it and converted it. It is a very light built-up type fuse design.

By nature, I like to build strong, but the free flight folks finally got me onto the idea that micros should be built so lightly, that the lightweight makes them damage resistant. At the small sizes, you really need a discrete spec to work toward, and have a really good idea of how to achieve it. The best way is obviously to build enough different types of planes with various materials, so that you know off top of head, how to hit a target weight. The little planes can fly great at a certain weight, and not fly at all, when only several grams heavier.

I have a deep respect for those who get planes to fly on 5gm outrunners and single cell lipos. My solution to to throw more power at them. My 4 30mm EDF jets are all 3 cell, and would not fly on 2 cells. The best low power micro I've achieved so far has a 5gm outrunner without adding any additional noseweight, as any ballast would defeat the purpose. With ballast, you may as well just use a 10gm motor instead and have massive power, reducing the chance of being underpowered. It has a 2 cell lipo however, and I'm sure it would not fly on a single cell. Maybe the new bl Spektrum unit with bl ESC is 2 cell compatible, which would be idea. I had to modify the older AR6400 for 2 cell bl use.

[S.R.G.]

DIRECTION CHANGED!!!

MAKING A JPOWER 50MM EDF *see link above

Think it should fly what about you?

And addressed the antenna thing 100 times...satellite...thanks!

[S.R.G.]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

, it took me a little while to study this, the Ap05 is a brush motor, and not very powerful, a 2 cell lipo will help a lot, but a Brushless motor will be much much better.

Just noticed this again...did you read the description? The AP05 is a brushless motor and used in probably 90% of all brushless conversions of the UM. Where did you find it is not brushless? I am confused...i it isn't then over 5 dealers I have found and 9 threads are wrong!!!

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by S.R.G.

Just noticed this again...did you read the description? The AP05 is a brushless motor and used in probably 90% of all brushless conversions of the UM. Where did you find it is not brushless? I am confused...i it isn't then over 5 dealers I have found and 9 threads are wrong!!!

I did a few searches and it came up as being a brush motor, OH well Typo Errors I went to HK and it described it as a brushless motor, I was Confused too for a while that ap05 motor can also use a 7.4 volt 2 cell lipo. cool

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9662

[S.R.G.]

No problem!!! Also, I am working up some rough 50mm EDF calculations for the mini F-16...looking ugly.

[CHELLIE]

trying to correct some mis information i got on the web here

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by S.R.G.

No problem!!! Also, I am working up some rough 50mm EDF calculations for the mini F-16...looking ugly.

get together with Don, he is the Guru of the EDFs

http://www.donsrc.com/cart/index.php...d&productId=99

[S.R.G.]

I emailed him and by the way, I have my calculations done. They are confusing...but tried my best to make them easy to read. These are for the Jpower/SkyAngel/Venom/etc F-16 50mm EDF airframe. I was unable to get the exact measurements on the parts and don't have my parts ready. Trying to formulate an attack plan for the build. However, with the given information and three separate photo translations (pixels to mm, then measuring each item), I get the following information..AND please excuse the following as it may be confusing, just wanted to display my information I calculated and gathered. Short version of data read the bolded text:

Given information from website:

Length: 680mm
Wingspan: 530mm
Flying weight: 325g

---------------------
---------------------
---------------------

Photo 1 test:

GIVEN:

Wingspan is 530 mm.

530 mm/975 px=0.543589744 mm/px

---------------------

wing:
~975 px=530 mm

wing l/r:
~385 px * 0.543589744 mm/px = 209.282051 mm

Body:
~200 px * 0.543589744 mm/px = 108.717949 mm

---------------------
---------------------
---------------------

Photo 2 test:

235 px body length

680mm given from specifications/235 pixels measured in image = 2.89361702 mm/px ratio

------

186 px wingspan from tip to tip with body
2.89361702 * 186 = 538.212766

70 px per wing half length
2.89361702 * 70 = 202.553191

60 px per wing half width
2.89361702 * 60 = 173.617021

Wing treated as a rectangle:
82844 square millimeters = 0.0990805994 square yards
0.0990805994 * 2.4 = 0.237793439 oz
0.237793439 ounces = 6.7413306 grams dry CF

6.7413306 * 2 = 13.4826612 total grams dry for the wing CF

0.0990805994 * .75 = 0.0743104495 oz
0.0743104495 ounces = 2.10666581 grams dry wing FG
2.10666581 * 2 = 4.21333162 total grams dry for the wing FG

----

43 px per tail half length
2.89361702 * 43 = 124.425532 mm

38 px per tail half width
2.89361702 * 38 = 109.957447 mm

Tail treated as a rectangle:
35804 square millimeters = 0.0428212276 square yards
0.0428212276 * 2.4 = 0.102770946 oz
0.102770946 ounces = 2.91350731 grams dry per tail wing half CF

2.91350731 * 2 = 5.82701462 total grams dry for the tail wings CF

0.0428212276 * .75 = 0.0321159207 oz
0.0321159207 ounces = 0.910471037 grams dry per tail wing half FG
0.910471037 * 2 = 1.82094207 total grams dry for the tail wings FG
----

46 px height of vertical strut
2.89361702 * 46 = 133.106383 mm

36 px width of vertical strut
2.89361702 * 36 = 104.170213 mm

Vertical strut treated as a rectangle:
32156 square millimeters = 0.0384582559 square yards
0.0384582559 * 2.4 = 0.0922998142 oz
0.0922998142 ounces = 2.61665572 grams dry for vertical strut CF

0.0384582559 * .75 = 0.0288436919 oz
0.0288436919 ounces = 0.817704911 grams dry for vertical strut FG
----

130 mm body max

2.89361702 * 38 = 109.957447 mm for 38 px small

75 mm made the radius
680 mm is length by specs

Body treated as a cylinder:
355 785.36801904405 square millimeters = 0.425515759 square yards
0.425515759 * 2.4 = 1.02123782 oz
1.02123782 ounces = 28.9516052 grams dry for the body CF

0.425515759 * .75 = 0.319136819 oz
0.319136819 ounces = 9.04737663 grams dry for the body FG
-----

14+6+3+30=53 grams dry total for CF
4.5+2+1+9=16.5 grams dry total for FG

16.5 + 53 = 69.5 grams dry total for CF and FG

69.5 * 2 = 139 grams total for a 1:1 fabric:resin ratio

Let's just call it 150 grams total for the airframe

-----

10g - 1 x HK DSM2 Receiver
10g - 1 x APC 8x3.8SF prop
20g - 2 x HXT900 servos
30g - 1 x HK SS 25A ESC
30g - 1 x HXT 3000kv Outrunner
80g - 1 x Turnigy 2s 800mAh LiPo

180 grams - Total combined weight of equipment

-----

150 grams for air frame + 180 grams for equipment = 330 grams total!!!


I just wanted to present all my calculations Proud of them since it took me over an hour to find the images with a straight down shot, measure everything in three different photos, then from there do the lengths, surface areas, weights, etc. A bit of work. I tried to over compensate, and hope I did so.

So from calculations and data, or personal knowledge/experience/opinion, will she fly? Looks like a yes!

[CHELLIE]

330 grams, thats about 11 oz. yes that should fly very well BTW what part of the country/world are you from I am in So. Calif. USA, Good job on the calculations, it would have taken me forever to do that Take care and have fun, Chellie

[CHELLIE]

Since you like working with CF, Check out this Plane thats being built

LP1 Aircraft Tour with David Algie of Algie Composite Aircraft from STIHL Â

http://airpigz.com/blog/2010/11/29/a...0-145-gph.html

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59577

[S.R.G.]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

330 grams, thats about 11 oz. yes that should fly very well BTW what part of the country/world are you from I am in So. Calif. USA, Good job on the calculations, it would have taken me forever to do that Take care and have fun, Chellie

Sweet! And I am in Arkansas...haha.

And thank you for the complement They are rough of course and over compensate, but fairly close to the true plane after comparing results to given specs and also working with other photos.