Suggest how to convert 2ch rubbish !

[solentlife]

Ok ... here's a common machine available in a lot of Supermarkets and Toy Shops .... about $25 ..... foam warbird ...

27Mhz, 60m range radio ... split stick 2ch.
Brick Rx that includes ESC for twin brushed motors.

Control system alters motors to turn, both speed to climb or dive.

End result ? Rubbish !









So technical data :

Power pack : 4.8v 250mA NiMh of 27grams - to be replaced with small Lipo increased capacity.
Motors : 2 x brushed with 650mm diam props ... pitch unknown.

All up weight incl. battery pack / Rx : 98gr

Wingspan : 450mm Root chord : 102mm Tip chord : 75mm

Total model length : 420mm

Wing T/E to start of tailplane ... boom length : 110mm

Tailplane span : 225mm TP centre chord : 70mm Tip chord : 50mm

Motor shaft centre from fuselage centre : 60mm

Prop clearance maximum to fueslage : 45mm ( indicating amax prop diam of 90mm but that would touch !)

Fuselage nose length : 100mm

Motor nacelle front section ahead of wing LE ... is 20mm wide and 35mm high


OK - so why all the info ? I reckon that with suitable modification - this baby can fly ... It would mean swap out motors for CD brushless motors and 650 - 700mm suitable props. LiPo battery of 1 or 2S and maybe 500mA ? With twin ESC's of 5 - 10A each ?

I would hazard a guess that micro servos of 3.5 - 6gr would be able to fit nacells under wings to operate aileron ... and a central one in fuselage with rod back to tail to operate elevator.

Now I'm looking for suggestions from others ... even those who might have already converted supermarket toys to actually work ?

It's hanging above my desk .... I bought it thinking I could chuck it around the garden .. but it only dives into the deck after about 20ft. So a project waiting to be sorted.


Given it's size etc. - I'm hoping that

[Heli Jim]

$25? Don't throw good money after bad.
Go get a real plane and actually enjoy
flying.

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by Heli Jim

$25? Don't throw good money after bad.
Go get a real plane and actually enjoy
flying.

I have proper models ..... here's looking above my computer ...









The point about the 2ch machine ... is it's hanging there and I reckon a few changes and mods could actually get it flying. I cannot fly any fixed wing I have at home, as there is not enough open ground for medium / large models - BUT this one may be small enough ...

I think it's an interesting project .... if it works ?

[kenchiroalpha]

Hi
Give it a shot nothing ventured nothing gained
As i said in one of your other threads i have many 2 channel aircraft both RTF and scratch built
I would go simple on your first one, throttle and rudder
Replace the 2 motors with ones a little better and hook up a rudder
Throttle control ascent and descent rudder for direction changes
Heres a few ive set up that way and they fly quite nicely if i do say so my self
Do enjoy
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank

[CHELLIE]

Here is what i would do

1. get rid of the cheapy 2 channel radio and receiver brick assy. into the round file with them
2. get rid of the 2 brush motors, into the round file with them
3. get rid of the 250mA NiMh battery, into the round file with it
4. Ok now that all that Junk is gone get 1 micro 1800kv motor, about $4.99 at HK and mount that in the nose with a stick mount.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

5. cut out ailerons on the wings 1/3 of the width of the wing from the fuselage to the tip of the wing. use 2- 5 gram servos and a y connection.mount the servos on the wing, on each side, cut out the wing so the servos lay flat into the wing.
6. cut the back part of the Stabilizer so its squared off, flat, and add a 3/4" x 1/8" wide piece of balsa for the elevator from tip to tip, use CA hinges cut in half lenght wise so they are not so stiff, use a 9 gram servo for the elevator, have the servo in the body and run a control wire in a plastic tube out to the control horn for the elevator.
7. use a 800MAH 3 cell lipo.
8. use a 25AMP esc.
9. use a 6x5.5 APC prop.
10. use one of your good transmitters for this plane and a decent receiver.
11.Balance the plane at 25% of the wing cord or 1/4 of the wing thickness back from the front edge of the plane, thats your CG point
12. Now that should give you about a 60+ MPH Plane that can just about do it all

Take care and have fun, Chellie

[CHELLIE]

Some of my scratch builds to help you get some ideas when converting your planes, hope that helps, Chellie

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...652#post715652




Example: servos laying flat in cut out wing, put the servo arm on top, and not on the bottom like i did for better protection

[kenchiroalpha]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

Here is what i would do

1. get rid of the cheapy 2 channel radio and receiver brick assy. into the round file with them
2. get rid of the 2 brush motors, into the round file with them
3. get rid of the 250mA NiMh battery, into the round file with it
4. Ok now that all that Junk is gone get 1 micro 1800kv motor, about $4.99 at HK and mount that in the nose with a stick mount.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

5. cut out ailerons on the wings 1/3 of the width of the wing from the fuselage to the tip of the wing. use 2- 5 gram servos and a y connection.mount the servos on the wing, on each side, cut out the wing so the servos lay flat into the wing.
6. cut the back part of the Stabilizer so its squared off, flat, and add a 3/4" x 1/8" wide piece of balsa for the elevator from tip to tip, use CA hinges cut in half lenght wise so they are not so stiff, use a 9 gram servo for the elevator, have the servo in the body and run a control wire in a plastic tube out to the control horn for the elevator.
7. use a 800MAH 3 cell lipo.
8. use a 25AMP esc.
9. use a 6x5.5 APC prop.
10. use one of your good transmitters for this plane and a decent receiver.
11.Balance the plane at 25% of the wing cord or 1/4 of the wing thickness back from the front edge of the plane, thats your CG point
12. Now that should give you about a 60+ MPH Plane that can just about do it all

Take care and have fun, Chellie

Hi Chellie
How ya been my friend?
That sounds like an excellent setup
Should work splendidly for that size bird
In fact i have one laying around that would be perfect for that setup and shall give it a go
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank

[CHELLIE]

Hi Hank that should make that plane scream use some 3mm CF tube in the wing, Take care and have fun, Chellie

[CHELLIE]

here is what that little 1800kv mirco motor is capable of with a 7x6 APC prop, it loves to be pushed at 20 amps and 220 watts i like to use the APC 6x5.5 prop with it. kosh is flying his X41 with it.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

click here to watch the video

[Glacier Girl]

Don't know if you want to spend this much but your bird is pretty similar to the new Mosquito from Horizon.

Just buy the guts out of it. You'll have a nice set up for your bird.

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

Here is what i would do

1. get rid of the cheapy 2 channel radio and receiver brick assy. into the round file with them

That's a total agreement on that !! I did wonder whether it could be relegated to a boat or something as I have a private canal of the river ...

2. get rid of the 2 brush motors, into the round file with them

Again agreed ! maybe boat ?

3. get rid of the 250mA NiMh battery, into the round file with it

Now that is not what I've done as the battery pack is an excellent Rx power pack being 4.8v ... it holds good charge and at moment is used to power my test-bed set-up. I have a bunch of servos / RX and switch harness rigged so I can test Tx mixing / set-ups for the Yahoo FlySky group. That little pack is nice and small for the job. I am thinking actually to use it in a model as a separate power for a RX instead of BEC ... 250mAh will give a reasonable 30-45mins total use ..

4. Ok now that all that Junk is gone get 1 micro 1800kv motor, about $4.99 at HK and mount that in the nose with a stick mount.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

Now I never though about a single motor ... I assumed I would fit a pair in same nacelles as present. mmmmmmmm actually makes sense ... gives me better motor feed and battery / ESC set-up. I can glue spinners onto nacelles giving impression of motors still there .. Brilliant idea - Thks.

5. cut out ailerons on the wings 1/3 of the width of the wing from the fuselage to the tip of the wing. use 2- 5 gram servos and a y connection.mount the servos on the wing, on each side, cut out the wing so the servos lay flat into the wing.

My idea was to use a couple of micro servos and mount into the fuselage booms with rods to ailerons cut and hinged on the full outer length of wings. Control horn's then close to booms and no need for guides etc.

6. cut the back part of the Stabilizer so its squared off, flat, and add a 3/4" x 1/8" wide piece of balsa for the elevator from tip to tip, use CA hinges cut in half lenght wise so they are not so stiff, use a 9 gram servo for the elevator, have the servo in the body and run a control wire in a plastic tube out to the control horn for the elevator.

mmmmsounds similar to what I was thinking - that servo sits in the main body and a rod back to the elevator section of tail. A simple straight cut across the span behind the vertical fins.

7. use a 800MAH 3 cell lipo.

Problem here I think is available space and weight ... once I fit that elevator servo in rear of fuselage ... I would have to take care about balance and weight ... the fuselage boom is only 22mm wide ... 55mm deep where battery would go... so it will be down to physical size.

8. use a 25AMP esc.

That is far higher than I ever imagined !! I was thinking a 5 - 10A would be enough with small CD rom motors !

9. use a 6x5.5 APC prop.

Noted.

10. use one of your good transmitters for this plane and a decent receiver.

Already earmarked ... and as I want to fly this at home ... range is not so critical - parkflyer is good enough.

11.Balance the plane at 25% of the wing cord or 1/4 of the wing thickness back from the front edge of the plane, thats your CG point

30yrs of models .... think I can manage that ...

12. Now that should give you about a 60+ MPH Plane that can just about do it all

Amazing how quickly people sum me up !! I like being able to pull the wings of with fixed wing ... have always over-powered where possible. My idea being that I can always throttle back ... but with limited power - you cannot open throttle more !

Take care and have fun, Chellie

I certainly will ........ will be a while before it all gets done - winter's still out there and we are getting temps in the -15's ... -20's C at night ..... so it's not funny standing out there even when sun comes up !!

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

here is what that little 1800kv mirco motor is capable of with a 7x6 APC prop, it loves to be pushed at 20 amps and 220 watts i like to use the APC 6x5.5 prop with it. kosh is flying his X41 with it.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

That is one wild motor and I'm just thinking it could be a bit over the top for this little Lightning.

The wings are VERY flexible and are going to need stiffening up with rod inserts. Even so - too fast / too manoeuvrable and I fear the wings are going to separate from the body !

I reckon I need something that will pull about 90 - 120gr based on a full up weight of about 150gr once I fit her out. Heavier than that and she's gonna need serious power and speed. I'm planning to fly her in a small area and too fast will make her un-useable there. Area in mind is just over tennis court size.... so no large area to have a 'missile' flying around !! It's gonna be tight !

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by solentlife

That is one wild motor and I'm just thinking it could be a bit over the top for this little Lightning.

The wings are VERY flexible and are going to need stiffening up with rod inserts. Even so - too fast / too manoeuvrable and I fear the wings are going to separate from the body !

I reckon I need something that will pull about 90 - 120gr based on a full up weight of about 150gr once I fit her out. Heavier than that and she's gonna need serious power and speed. I'm planning to fly her in a small area and too fast will make her un-useable there. Area in mind is just over tennis court size.... so no large area to have a 'missile' flying around !! It's gonna be tight !

the 1800kv motor with the 6x5.5 prop will draw about 20 amps and 220 watts, so the 25 amp esc is needed, yes it will be a power house, but you can always throttle down yes brace the wings up if they flex. BTW you can prop down too and use a 5x3 or 5x4 prop, that will slow things down a little for you. and for $4.99 for the motor, you cant go wrong pick up a few of them, you can prop them to go mild or wild 7x6 APC being the biggest that you would want to use for a prop, so just about any APC prop from 5" to 7" with a pitch of 6 or less will work fine.

[TLyttle]

Hm??? Spend a bunch of bux on a $25 model? Okay, whatever. I like buying these little blighters when they are on sale, then MAKE them fly using the enclosed equipment. So far, so good.

I had a couple of Airhog or equivalent jets, and to make them fly in anything but totally calm conditions I bent in some down elevator and downthrust on the motors. Flights were fast and realistic, and they stopped crashing. My buddy and I flew some amazing combat matches with these, now cannibalised for his TU95.

Another one flew fine, until cut up for my 18" foamie Mosquito, ready to test fly once the weather smartens up...

[kenchiroalpha]

Hi
Heres some of my 2 channel aircraft
Do enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfhSZrdWS7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-MEZs8V9I0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r22gzcWFbOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfEIUihF8v8
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3513252995485401554#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2029548980279561889#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6489953635967498539#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5130489990940516235#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2881413525657747940#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9194001102603899174#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=142152003567934366#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7808078965405455511#
Heres some 2 channel helis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oK12HpMDYk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxtDfOH2-V8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRgD2lIZIaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLidUGzG0Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyCPs6wcRQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzZFglDnoMU
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2856709233761095812#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7365872581748440908#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2556271676356127745#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4673338129539020700#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8513687246178749550#
Take care
Yours Hank

[Virgil Kee]

The US importers of these gosh-awful "RC models" have totally failed to insist that their Chinese suppliers get rid of the blacked-out, non-scale canopies. These were NOT used in WWII!

Also the US national insignias did NOT appear on BOTH wing panels by ~1942. Try to remove them by pulling up with the sticky side of your favorite tape. In addition, the insignias in the photo are NOT WWII scale!

Happy RC-ing!

Virg.

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, Johnny One-Star has visited this thread and didn't even say "Hi!" Personally I find this thread very entertaining! Solentlife picks up a known piece of junk and then thinks, "Wouldn't it be really cool if this thing could be made to fly like a hobby grade plane?"

Anybody can fly a Champ, that sounds like a lot of fun, win or lose! After all, it isn't like the components won't be useful somewhere if this plane doesn't fly right when he's done. In the meantime he's having fun doing what we all love to do, modifying.

What could be more fun than showing up at the flying field with a plane that is a well known piece of junk and then just flying the pants off it as everyone wonders what you could have done to it?

Then I find out that I'm not totally wacked out, as Hank and Chellie chime in and it turns out both have done some of the same thing. I don't take Solentlife as any lightweight either, I think I'm with the majority in thinking this is a fun project.

But.......

Johnny One-Star doesn't contribute, he snipes. His one star means the thread is "terrible," totally off-subject, not of interest to anybody on the site or having completely incorrect or unsafe information. It's a complete abuse of the forum thread rating system. Let's fix it and I'll be first to give solentlife's thread a five star rating.

If the flitetest guys can fly a concrete block, solentlife can fly this piece of "rubbish!" Unlike the concrete block this one has a chance to fly really well. Standing by for results.

[earthsciteach]

I agree with Robbins that this is an interesting and worthwhile thread. Its easy to go out and pay money for a bird that will fly pretty well out of the box. But, to take something that flies like an intoxicated, 1 winged bumble bee and turn it into a decent flying airplane is FUN!

Solent-did you ever get around to working on this? I'd love to know the results!

[earthsciteach]

Another one flew fine, until cut up for my 18" foamie Mosquito, ready to test fly once the weather smartens up...[/QUOTE]

18" Misquito? Cool. How did it fly? Did you scratch build?