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Old 04-11-2011, 08:22 PM   #1
electriconly
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Default 1/4 Scale Fokker Dr1 (BUSA) ready for paint

Been traveling for business quite a lot so the build has slowed down...... But finally all the covering is dove and it is ready for paint.

Brad


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Old 04-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #2
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VERY nice!

Jeff/LAX
(don't panic - I don't land the planes)
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:10 AM   #3
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Brad, Can you list the power system you'll be using, Ie: Motor, ESC and Battery(s) any other particulars? Thanks!

Having spent two years in Germany, I know that Lothar's name is pronounced Low-Tar and not LowThar as I've heard pronounced on DVDs!
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:20 AM   #4
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Very nice indeed.. great colour scheme too!

How will you do the 'streaky' green?

Steve
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Very nice indeed.. great colour scheme too!

How will you do the 'streaky' green?

Steve
There is a lot of discussion on the scale websites as to the correct colors for the streaky green. Even if it should be green or brown. I am going with a brownish olive for the base then will experiment with dry brushing a greener olive a dark gray and perhaps a black until I am happy.

The nice thing about using Solartex (natural) and electric power is I will airbrush using latex paint from Home Depot thinned with Floetrol. And as Home Depot will make up 8 oz paint color samples for less then $3.00 it is inexpensive to experiment.

Brad
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
Brad, Can you list the power system you'll be using, Ie: Motor, ESC and Battery(s) any other particulars? Thanks!

Having spent two years in Germany, I know that Lothar's name is pronounced Low-Tar and not LowThar as I've heard pronounced on DVDs!
Power System :

Scorpion 4025/16 (332 kv)
Xoar antique prop 20/8
Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 75 esc
6s2p 30C 5000 mah Lipo
2s A123m1 2270 mah for SPC port of RC (Hitec Optima 9)
2s A123m1 2270 mah to power servo bus

Depending on weather you trust MotoCalc or Scorpion Calc it should (WOT) draw ~60a and produce about ~200 oz thrust and a pitch speed of ~40 mph.

Brad
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:31 PM   #7
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nice work! the slot car track looks like fun.

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Old 04-14-2011, 11:40 AM   #8
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Thanks Brad! The Pfalz I'm considering building should weigh around 10-11 lbs, and has a 74 inch wing span. How big a power system do you think I need? Is moto calc free, if so where can I download it from?
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by electriconly View Post
Power System :

Scorpion 4025/16 (332 kv)
Xoar antique prop 20/8
Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 75 esc
6s2p 30C 5000 mah Lipo
2s A123m1 2270 mah for SPC port of RC (Hitec Optima 9)
2s A123m1 2270 mah to power servo bus

Depending on weather you trust MotoCalc or Scorpion Calc it should (WOT) draw ~60a and produce about ~200 oz thrust and a pitch speed of ~40 mph.

Brad
Servo Bus? Is that battery going to power the servos direct then signal wires only to the receiver? I've often wondered about doing that but had not heard of it being done before. What are all of the benefits? Thanks

Dave

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Old 04-14-2011, 09:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by av8djc View Post
Servo Bus? Is that battery going to power the servos direct then signal wires only to the receiver? I've often wondered about doing that but had not heard of it being done before. What are all of the benefits? Thanks

Dave
Dave it is a feature of the new Hitec Optima 2.4G receivers to separately power the radio side of the RC from the servo bus. There is a SPC port that can accept up to 36v for the radio side and if you use it, then any battery connected to the regular battery port just powers the servos. That way it would be impossible for the servos to pull the voltage so low that the RX to brownout.

Brad
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:57 AM   #11
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Brad

Well that sounds pretty neat! Thanks for the education.

Dave

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Old 04-19-2011, 01:04 AM   #12
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Diggin' the tripe!!

Flying is just a question of money. How high would you like to go?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by electriconly View Post
There is a lot of discussion on the scale websites as to the correct colors for the streaky green. Even if it should be green or brown. I am going with a brownish olive for the base then will experiment with dry brushing a greener olive a dark gray and perhaps a black until I am happy.

The nice thing about using Solartex (natural) and electric power is I will airbrush using latex paint from Home Depot thinned with Floetrol. And as Home Depot will make up 8 oz paint color samples for less then $3.00 it is inexpensive to experiment.

Brad
Brad
Have you started the paint job yet? Normally the first coat or two on Dacron is thinned Nitrate dope. It will really bond to the Dacron and give a good start for the latex. Hope I'm not too late.
Dave

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Old 04-19-2011, 02:24 PM   #14
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Haven't started yet, I built a spray box over the weekend. When I ordered the Solartex (natural) I checked with Dave Lewis at Balsa USA and his advise was no primer just go with thinned latex..... but now I am wondering.

Time to try a sample and see how it goes.

Brad
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by electriconly View Post
Power System :

Scorpion 4025/16 (332 kv)
Xoar antique prop 20/8
Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 75 esc
6s2p 30C 5000 mah Lipo
2s A123m1 2270 mah for SPC port of RC (Hitec Optima 9)
2s A123m1 2270 mah to power servo bus

Depending on weather you trust MotoCalc or Scorpion Calc it should (WOT) draw ~60a and produce about ~200 oz thrust and a pitch speed of ~40 mph.

Brad

If you've run this through motocalc, they suggest this motor is going to run very hot, over 400 degrees with that 20X8 prop. That puts you at risk of a burned up motor during flight, and dead stick landings. That 20X8 prop is more of a match for my Hacker A60-16M motor, a unit that is rated for 2400 watts. I'm running a 19X12 prop on this motor, it pulls 70 Amps on 12S2P A123 cells. And, per motocalc, efficiency is 91%. And predicted thrust is some 350 ounces. (I've got a Harbor freight 40 pound pull scale on order to check this!)

I've got a similar sized Hacker A50-16S that runs with a 6S2P A123 pack and a 16X12 APC-E prop. This is a nice combination. Other club members have run this same motor with a 6S Lipo with a smaller 15 inch diameter propeller. And, putting a 20x8 prop on this expensive motor would also likely burn it up.

What is the over all weight of your model? If its much over 10-12 pounds or so, you might need a higher powered motor. IMHO, any motor that is running over perhaps 100 watts per ounce of motor weight is pushing it a little.

If you put in a range of propellers in motocalc, like 16X6 to 20X10, this program spits out a number of different results. You can click on each of them and get opinions and so forth. Some of the Scorpion results had motor efficiencies down less 70% or so. Motocalc suggests that a 16X8 prop would get you about 90% efficiency with about 150 ounces of thrust, and a pitch speed of 50 MPH. This is getting pretty important when dealing with kilowatt sized motors. IMHO, best to use propellers that allow efficiency to be in the mid 80% or higher at full power.

Note the www.motocalc.com predictions, attached.


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Old 04-19-2011, 09:06 PM   #16
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I checked it out last December with Lucien the resident Scorpion Motor guy and he responded that:

Brad,

The S-4025-16 motor would be a good choice for a big DR1 like that. With a 20x8 prop, you should pull around 60 amps at full throttle, and get about 13 pounds of thrust at 6000 RPM. You will have a pitch speed of 45 MPH at full throttle. The plane will fly very nicely at about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle pulling 20-25 amps. At that rate, you could get 20-25 minute flights from a 10,000mah battery pack.

See you all next time.

Lucien
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by electriconly View Post
I checked it out last December with Lucien the resident Scorpion Motor guy and he responded that:



Brad
OK

Be very careful with motor power settings on that 20 inch prop. That size propeller is more for a 2400 watt motor, than one that's rated at 1000 watts. And that Scorpion motor has a 6 mm shaft (0.235 inches). If the 20 inch prop ever hits the ground on a nose over, you've got a chance of bending the motor shaft.

(My A60 series Hacker motor has a solid steel 5/16 inch shaft on it)

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Old 04-19-2011, 11:51 PM   #18
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Very nice plane brad ,i cant wait to see color on it . joe
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:48 AM   #19
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Scorpion 4025/16

Stator Diameter 40.0 mm (1.575 in)
Stator Thickness 25.0 mm (0.984 in)
No. of Stator Arms 12
Magnet Poles 14
Motor Wind 16 Turn Delta
Motor Wire 18-Strand 0.25mm
Motor Kv 332 RPM / Volt
No-Load Current (Io) @ 10 v 0.83 Amps
Motor Resistance (Rm) 0.034 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 75 Amps
Max Continuous Power 2000 Watts
Weight 353 Grams (12.45 oz)
Outside Diameter 48.9 mm (1.925 in)
Shaft Diameter 5.98 mm (0.235 in)
Body Length 51.15 mm (2.014 in)
Overall Shaft Length 83.40 mm (3.283 in)
Max Lipo Cell 8s
Motor Timing 5deg
Drive Frequency 8kHz

Hackers are of course very good motors..... over the years I have used Hackers, Kontronics, Pleitenbergs and AXI's but found the Scorpions to perform just as well and provide equivalent quality for less then half the price.
If I bend a shaft it is easily replaceable so that is not a major concern.

Brad
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by electriconly View Post
Scorpion 4025/16
No-Load Current (Io) @ 10 v 0.83 Amps
Motor Resistance (Rm) 0.034 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 75 Amps
Max Continuous Power 2000 Watts
Weight 353 Grams (12.45 oz)

Hackers are of course very good motors..... over the years I have used Hackers, Kontronics, Pleitenbergs and AXI's but found the Scorpions to perform just as well and provide equivalent quality for less then half the price.
If I bend a shaft it is easily replaceable so that is not a major concern.

Brad
General maximum rule of thumb for maximum power out of our brushless motors is about 100 watts per ounce of motor weight. This one is 2000/12.45, or 160 watts per ounce. And power lost in the windings alone at 75 amps is 75X75X0.034 or 191 watts.

Let us know how it works out!

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Old 07-28-2011, 11:35 PM   #21
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Well......It's getting closer the initial paint is done.... a lot of detail work yet to go...... detail paint, decals, pilot, machine guns, dummy engine, ammo box, leather fittings.... and on and on........

Brad


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Old 07-29-2011, 12:16 AM   #22
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Brad she looks great ! i think i have seen your plane before brad. Joe bahl
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:17 AM   #23
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Great workmanship.
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:40 AM   #24
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great tripe!!

Flying is just a question of money. How high would you like to go?
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:12 AM   #25
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Impressive!
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