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Old 05-09-2011, 07:53 PM   #1
twinbrother2010
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Default Lipo Technology Going Backwards?

I've been telling all my buddies about the new 65C XPS lipos. Well, not sure I can recommend them anymore. One of my buddies went ahead and purchased 2 of the 3S 5000mah 65C lipos in January. Only after 4 months of use, it's already starting to puff and degrade in performance.

So I emailed XPS and told him about the lipos puffing after just a few months. My buddy didn't want to do it because he was pretty upset about it. I was told by the rep at XPS that all the new lipos that have the high C rating, must be used within hours of charge. That goes for all the new high C rating batteries, not only XPS lipos. The higher the C rating, the faster you have to use them.

I don't know about you guys, but I can't charge my 21 lipos before I go to the field. I fly with 10 cells ( 3 packs in series) and have enough for 7 flights. I have older lipos, 20-30C packs, and I charge them days before going to the field on Saturday. It takes me 3 days to charge all the packs as I do them at night when I return home from work. All those packs are in the fully charged state for 1-3 days before I fly on Saturday and none are puffing due to holding the full state charge.

The rep at XPS told me you can severely damage any of the new lipos, 65C rating, if you let the lipos sit for more than a few hours fully charged. In my opinion, that's going backward in lipo technology. Yes, you get 65C discharge rate, but you're giving up the convenience. You have to use your lipos right away or they die. My buddy's XPS lipos are puffing after just a few months. He doesn't abuse the lipos by over draining them at too high a rate. He does, however, charge them the night before, and according to the xps rep, could be the reason for the puffing.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:05 PM   #2
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Give us some more info besides the lipo.... Why and what is the reason he is using 65c packs!?!! Unless he has a amp hog of a plane and needs them. Yes they are finicky packs at 65c. But personally I make power, not bog the power system. Like those Hummers on the road with a skinny toothpick driver and no cargo... Get my drift?
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:20 PM   #3
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He's using the 65C packs because that's what XPS is selling. They're phasing out the older generation packs and will only sell the 65C packs from here on forward, according to the XPS rep. Why would you be buying a 30C pack when the 65C pack is the same price? All the manufacturers continue bringing up the C rating on their packs, but at the cost of holding a charge in storage for longer than a few hours. This is according to the rep at XPS. Soon, you won't be able to purchase lipo packs below 30C.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:56 PM   #4
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Who at XPS did you speak with? Do you know? Just curious.

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Old 05-09-2011, 10:00 PM   #5
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I just emailed the tech on their website. The rep responded right away to all 3 of my emails. And the responses were quite in depth, resulting in the info I posted. The rep didn't leave his name.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:29 PM   #6
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I just emailed one of the owners at XPS. I'll see if I can find out anything different about this. I also just went through the 300+ post thread about these packs over on RCGroups, and didn't see anything there posted by XPS regarding this. I'll let you know what I find out.

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Old 05-09-2011, 10:36 PM   #7
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Thanks a bunch. Very odd no one has even mentioned the storage times of these new 65C packs. I'm very interested to see what you find. If this is the direction of lipo technology, that really puts a limitation on what you can do with them. There is no way I'm buying lipo packs that could be damaged just because it's holding a few charge for more than a few hours. That is too much of a sacrifice to get the higher C rating. I'll check RC Groups and see what other people are saying. Thanks again.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:41 PM   #8
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FWIW, I don't currently have any of the new 65C XPS packs as I don't use large packs (all of my stuff is small). But I do have a ton of the new Hyperion G3 packs, and constantly charge them at 5C and store them fully charged for up to a week at a time. No issues whatsoever with those.

I have a lot of friends that run the XPS 65C packs in their large EDFs and big electrics, and as far as I know none of them have ever had any issues either.

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Old 05-10-2011, 03:46 AM   #9
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If you don't like the batteries they sell, and they tell you they aren't going to be selling any other types, then it's time to find another source for batteries.

That's my simple answer to a simple question.

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Old 05-10-2011, 04:29 AM   #10
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That's not the purpose of this thread. If I don't like a product, I don't buy it. I started this thread to see if other people have been told the same info that the XPS rep told me about the higher C rated lipos. That's the purpose of this thread. It's pretty common sense to only buy something you like.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:00 PM   #11
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FWIW, I don't currently have any of the new 65C XPS packs as I don't use large packs (all of my stuff is small). But I do have a ton of the new Hyperion G3 packs, and constantly charge them at 5C and store them fully charged for up to a week at a time. No issues whatsoever with those.

I have a lot of friends that run the XPS 65C packs in their large EDFs and big electrics, and as far as I know none of them have ever had any issues either.
Stored up to a week with no signs of internal resistance build up? That amazing! This guys 65c packs sound fishy or this story, maybe these packs are used with fishy innards... Listen no need to knock these packs, but I think the Lipo revolution has hit the wall, for example you can only stuff so much sugar and cereal in a cereal box.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
If you don't like the batteries they sell, and they tell you they aren't going to be selling any other types, then it's time to find another source for batteries.

That's my simple answer to a simple question.

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what was the question though? I think the original post was more of a warning to potential buyers about an issue that most, including me, haven't heard of.

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Old 05-10-2011, 03:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SmoothCruizer2 View Post
Stored up to a week with no signs of internal resistance build up? That amazing! This guys 65c packs sound fishy or this story, maybe these packs are used with fishy innards... Listen no need to knock these packs, but I think the Lipo revolution has hit the wall, for example you can only stuff so much sugar and cereal in a cereal box.
Well, according to the XPS battery thread over on RCGroups, XPS actually DE-rated these packs from their original 75C rating by the Chinese manufacturer so that they would be more realistic. Still waiting to hear back on the original issue.

As far as IR build up? I don't know. But I do know that I have been doing that for years, and my packs have shown no adverse conditions. I typically get about 1.5 years out of a pack with hundreds of cycles. I fly all of my mini stuff on 3 packs of 3S 850s, and I generally rotate through them 3 times at the field each day.

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Old 05-10-2011, 04:26 PM   #14
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Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier...

In my personal experience, I too use my XPS packs 'incorrectly'. I also charge the day before, and store charged. In all honesty, using within hours of charge, is news to me.

I use my pack in our pylon race series where I'm WOT for the race. I don't think I'm pulling as hard on the pack as you could, because I'm still cool after a main. I have to race, then charge, then race again on the same pack. The 65c and high charge rate are what keeps me going during a race day without smoking a lesser pack.

My batteries have not puffed at all. Still tight.

I would want to investigate the set with a wattmeter to determine if he is making up for a low power set with high C ratings. So hard to determine without seeing the whole picture.

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Old 05-10-2011, 06:36 PM   #15
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I fly with my buddy all the time and he doesn't abuse his packs. Max amp draw on the lipos is 100 amps full throttle on the 65C 5000mah lipo. That's way under the max for the lipo. And he puts back 3000-3500mah during charge, so he's only drawing 60-70% of the capacity of the lipo.

I'm trying to figure out why the packs are puffing and losing performance after just 4 months of use. My 30C G1 XPS lipos don't puff after 1.5 years of use and I charge and store them for up to 1 week. My G2 45C lipos have shown signs of puffing after 1 year of use flying under the same conditions. My buddy's G3 65C lipos have shown considerable signs up puffing after just 4 months of use.

As stated earlier, the "must use within hours of charge" is straight from the tech support email I received from XPS. It is also the same info I got at the AMA show this year, except the rep there told me the lipos had to be used within a couple of days, not hours.

Hey, I love my XPS lipos, but I don't have the 65C ones. The rep says all the new super high C rated lipos have this issue. They cannot keep storage for very long and are very sensitive to being stored fully charged for long periods of time, which is days. The old rule of keeping a lipo stored for 1 month as being "long term" is out the window. These new lipos now mean "days" when you say "long term," according to the XPS rep.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by twinbrother2010 View Post
It is also the same info I got at the AMA show this year, except the rep there told me the lipos had to be used within a couple of days, not hours.
Tall blonde-haired guy with glasses, or short dark-haired guy with a "New York" attitude?

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Old 05-10-2011, 09:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by crxmanpat View Post
Tall blonde-haired guy with glasses, or short dark-haired guy with a "New York" attitude?

I spoke to the tall guy with glasses. I think his name was Scott Bayde or something like that. He's the one that owns the F-15 that is always on display at the AMA show.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:49 PM   #18
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Scott Bahde (pronounced "Body"), yes that's him. I sent him the email yesterday. So far no response. But if he said they can stand to stay fully charged for a few days, then I would go with that.

But still, not sure why your friends pack is puffing. That's odd. But then again, no company can get 100% good cells all the time. You're bound to get a bad one every now and then.

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Old 05-10-2011, 10:25 PM   #19
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I understand some cells can go bad, but all 3 that he has from XPS are doing the same thing. I'm a true believer of XPS, so I don't understand why it's happening to all 3 of his lipos.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:46 AM   #20
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Wow, that is strange indeed.

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Old 05-11-2011, 06:15 AM   #21
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The story sounds fishy to me. More like an excuse not to honor a warranty claim.

IF that were true, then why the heck arent they posting that info to users? If its true, most users would be killing their packs in no time at all.

I also find it hard to believe they would only sell 65C packs. 98% of users dont need more than 15-20C packs and 65C packs are way heavier than lower C packs.

It just doesnt hold together for me.

I think I need a signature.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:52 AM   #22
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Larry,

It is true that XPS only sells larger 65C packs now. They used to have 25C and 45C packs, but they really are only catering to the guys with larger EDF and electric conversions now. They say it's because they really are not in the lipo businesss (they want to sell mostly radio gear), but since they need the big packs, they figured they'd get them in bulk and pass them on to customers as well.

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Old 05-14-2011, 07:30 AM   #23
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I have 4 of these batteries and every one is swelling. It would seem I need to change my habits and recharge the batteries before I go fly and not when I get home like I used to. I sell Hyperion batteries but got the XPS ones because I have seen first hand the speed runs the do with the EDF's and knew they would hold up to high amp draws of a 50cc plane.

All that being said I called the Hyperion guys and they did tell me the same thing. They recommend anything they sell 35c and over not be fully charged until the day before you fly. They actually recommend you put a storage charge on them and complete the charge the day before you fly.

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Old 05-15-2011, 02:50 AM   #24
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Wow, that is disappointing to hear that you have to charge these newer high "C" rating packs the night before you fly. Giving up the storage time for high "C" rating lipos is a huge sacrifice. There is no way I can charge my 21 lipos the night before I go to the field. It's a good thing the 21 lipos I do have are all 35C and below, except for 2, which are XPS 45C lipos. Those 2 XPS lipos are slightly swelled, and now I'm charging those 2 Friday night before going to the field on Saturday. If manufacturers stop selling the 25-35C lipos, I really don't know what I'm going to do. I just hope the engineers will be able to fix this problem down the line with these new lipos. I really think it's a huge set back for lipo technology.
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:45 AM   #25
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I have a feeling the 25-35C packs will be around for a while. Heck, I saw a new pack today that had come with an Icanfly trainer and it was 10C!

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