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Old 05-15-2011, 05:11 AM   #1
computerman0219
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Question Scratch Built Foam Setup

Hello everyone,
First off I am pretty new to scratch built planes however not rc. I am not so much worried about different plans (although and good proven designs would be nice) but more about the motors. I havent had to much experience with different type of motors or foam. So I was hoping someone could help me out. I am curious what is the best type of foam to use and where to buy. I know lowes has foam but didnt know if thats the right stuff and if there is any better stuff out there?

The other question I have as mentioned is about the motors. I usually order off of HK (because there cheap and I have had good luck with them and thats why I want to get into scratch built because its prob even cheaper). Anyhow I was wondering if there is a general good motor for the type of flying your doing (3-D, slow flight, Fast, etc) and I know a big factor is weight as well, but I was wondering if there is just a good motor to start out with for each type?

What I am wanting to do is buy the suggested motors so I will have somewhere to start with when I start coming up with different planes. I wanna have fun with it and I know some wont work but I think it will be fun. The main reason I was wondering about the motor is because I would hate to have to design a plane and then wait each time after I create one for a motor to come in from HK (the only downside to HK). I wanna be able to kinda build the plane around the motor.

Hope all makes since. Look forward to trying this out. Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:11 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
Hello everyone,
First off I am pretty new to scratch built planes however not rc. I am not so much worried about different plans (although and good proven designs would be nice) but more about the motors. I havent had to much experience with different type of motors or foam. So I was hoping someone could help me out. I am curious what is the best type of foam to use and where to buy. I know lowes has foam but didnt know if thats the right stuff and if there is any better stuff out there?

The other question I have as mentioned is about the motors. I usually order off of HK (because there cheap and I have had good luck with them and thats why I want to get into scratch built because its prob even cheaper). Anyhow I was wondering if there is a general good motor for the type of flying your doing (3-D, slow flight, Fast, etc) and I know a big factor is weight as well, but I was wondering if there is just a good motor to start out with for each type?

What I am wanting to do is buy the suggested motors so I will have somewhere to start with when I start coming up with different planes. I wanna have fun with it and I know some wont work but I think it will be fun. The main reason I was wondering about the motor is because I would hate to have to design a plane and then wait each time after I create one for a motor to come in from HK (the only downside to HK). I wanna be able to kinda build the plane around the motor.

Hope all makes since. Look forward to trying this out. Thanks in advance!
Hi the best type of foam to use is Depron 6mm and 9mm, because it is stiff and wont flex a lot when your flying and make your plane not handle right. you can get it at,
http://www.rcfoam.com/index.php?cPat...9523da2ededf13

they sell single sheets too, just give them a call.

for the motor here is a awesome motor that will do it all on park fliers, some people here even use it on Big Multiple eng planes and its less than $5.00 i use it alot , buy several they restock fast if they are sold out, leave your email address on the motor web page and they will inform you when they are in. this motor will turn a APC 7x4 7x5 and 7x6 prop with athority
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

the turnighy ESC work great, and have been bullet proff for me get a 30 amp ESC because it will last longer and not have to work very hard.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

the turnigy, zippy and rhino lipos work great, normally a 1300mah to 1500 3 cell 20 to 25C Rated lipo will work well with most planes
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430

here are some builds that i have done, there are some plans in the build thread too,
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...652#post715652

and some tips on how to cut depron foam.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39733

the HXT 9 Gram servo work great, its all that i use, and have used them in a funjet doing 103 MPH
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...?idProduct=662

Hope that helps, I am Plane Crazy Chellie

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Old 05-15-2011, 06:14 AM   #3
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here is my friend Kosh using the micro 1800KV motor in his scratch built plane with a 3 cell and a APC 7x6 prop

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5430


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Old 05-15-2011, 06:21 AM   #4
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and here is a 64" scratch built vickers wellington using 2- 1800 micro motors

http://vimeo.com/22757213

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Old 05-15-2011, 01:20 PM   #5
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Wow thanks for all the help Chellie! What's the difference between the Depron foam at Lowes (I think that's what they have) and the Depron they have on there site? Also if I try to build a 3d type scratch built will the motor work has well for that? My last question is how to wire up multiple electric engines? I have never done that before and have always wondered how to do that.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
Wow thanks for all the help Chellie! What's the difference between the Depron foam at Lowes (I think that's what they have) and the Depron they have on there site? Also if I try to build a 3d type scratch built will the motor work has well for that? My last question is how to wire up multiple electric engines? I have never done that before and have always wondered how to do that.

Thanks again!
Hi, lowes does not sell depron, they used to sell a blue core foam, but it flexes a lot, some people build with it, but its not the best, depron is the best to build with, its stiffer, also hobby people sell midwest cell foam 88, that works well too
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php.../?q=foam+sheet

there are a few ways to hook up multiple motors, use a y connector, hook both ESC to the y connector then to the receiver throttle port, you have to eliminate the red battery wire in one of the Motors ESC or the BEC in both of the ESC will fight each other and burn up, that wire is the small wire on the esc to receiver plug, also here is a differential motor thrusting using the rudder control and a v tail mixer

http://www.speedwing.net/minitwin_25...structions.pdf
scroll down to almost the bottom of the page

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Old 05-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
Wow thanks for all the help Chellie! What's the difference between the Depron foam at Lowes (I think that's what they have) and the Depron they have on there site? Also if I try to build a 3d type scratch built will the motor work has well for that? My last question is how to wire up multiple electric engines? I have never done that before and have always wondered how to do that.

Thanks again!
on the 3 d type plane it depends on how big it will be, up to a 30" wing span on one micro motor will work well with a 7x6 apc prop.

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Old 05-15-2011, 07:57 PM   #8
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Thanks again Chellie! I noticed the motor comes with a stick mount...are there other mount available?
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:19 PM   #9
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I am no Burt Rutan by anymeans but I wondering how to determine the CG? Or is trail and error the only way?
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:12 AM   #10
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Hey All, I know there is a thread about this somewhere, i just can't find it at the moment so Iím sticking my question here hoping it helps this thread as well:

I know all the basic rules about CF safe glue, gorilla glue, hot glue guns and so on... my questions is : Does anyone know of a Spray on foam safe glue that i can use to cover large areas of foam in a short time? Brand & where to buy?

Thanks in advance,

-John

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Old 05-16-2011, 02:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
Thanks again Chellie! I noticed the motor comes with a stick mount...are there other mount available?
Hi you can get some radial mounts for it, i am not sure if its a 8mm or 10mm bearing tube, just get both $0.95 each epoxy the motor mount to the bearing tube, dont get any epoxy on the rear bearing, that helps to keep the motor from ever wanting to turn in the mount, they do sometimes turn in the mount after time.that the cure I think it might be the 8mm bearing tube mount.

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...NTS/Categories

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...unt-for/Detail

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...-Motors/Detail

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Old 05-16-2011, 02:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jap71173 View Post
Hey All, I know there is a thread about this somewhere, i just can't find it at the moment so I’m sticking my question here hoping it helps this thread as well:

I know all the basic rules about CF safe glue, gorilla glue, hot glue guns and so on... my questions is : Does anyone know of a Spray on foam safe glue that i can use to cover large areas of foam in a short time? Brand & where to buy?

Thanks in advance,

-John
3m 77 spray glue, use in light coats. they have a 3m 74 foam safe, but its not for sale in Calif.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...beQH8HT14PGTgl

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=...e76c24b15c82b4


Amazon.com: Multiuse Professional Spray Adhesive: Office Products

3 reviews - $11.76 - In stock

3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive bonds most lightweight materials, metal, foil, plastic, films, foam, paper cardboard, lightweight wood and fabric. ...
www.amazon.com › ... › Adhesives & GlueSpray Adhesives

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Old 05-16-2011, 02:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
I am no Burt Rutan by anymeans but I wondering how to determine the CG? Or is trail and error the only way?
Normally on a conventional plane, not a delta or wing, 25% back from the leading edge is a safe place to start at, then you can move the cg back a little at a time to find the sweet spot hope that helps, Chellie

http://www.inlandsloperebels.com/Calc/cgcalc.html

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Old 05-16-2011, 02:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
I am no Burt Rutan by anymeans but I wondering how to determine the CG? Or is trail and error the only way?
I Taught Burt Rutan all he Knows LOL, Ok Just kidding, Take care and Have fun, Chellie

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Old 05-16-2011, 07:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
I am no Burt Rutan by anymeans but I wondering how to determine the CG? Or is trail and error the only way?
Hi
Pleased to meet you
Try one of these, very accurate and quite simple to use
http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plum...%20Machine.htm
Take care
Yours Hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 05-17-2011, 02:43 AM   #16
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Let me first say that I barely qualify to offer any advice and that Chellie and Hank are two of the most helpful people I have ever run across on the internet.
That being said, here's my take on CG: It should be slightly forward of the center of lift on conventional (non-canard) airplanes. The center of lift is generally 30-50% of wing chord (width) back from the leading edge. Hence, Chellie's 25% is a great place to start.

I like to use the "finger balance" method to determine the rough CG of a plane. that is, support the airplane on the underside of the wing on both sides of the fuselage with your index fingers. Move your fingers fore and aft until you find the balance point. If there is anyone nearby that annoys you, use your middle fingers to support the plane.
"You know, the bird?"
"Yes, Goose, I know the bird."
Sorry, I never pass up an opportunity to quote Top Gun.

Anyway, good luck with your build! Keep us posted of your progress and put up some pictures!

All of my landings are three point landings if you count the spinner, too
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:04 AM   #17
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Thanks again to everyone for all the help! I am planning on starting one tomorrow...HOWEVER now I am stuck. I dont know what to build? I would like to design my own but at the sametime I think after thinking it through that its going to be harder than it seems. So I was thinking about building one (a simple one, my first scratch built plane) from someones plans or design. The only motors I have right now are off a hobbyzone super cub and one from a C-182 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=6331). SO I am not sure what to build...any suggestions? I was thinking about a slowflyer or 3D but any will do..Thanks!
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:16 AM   #18
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Hi
You may like this one
http://www.foamflyer.info/plane.html
The main site
http://www.foamflyer.info/
Take care
Yours Hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:20 AM   #19
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Thanks! I think I may give that a shot. I doubt it will work though lol. Is there a good way to make the wing? I saw on youtube where a guy put two sheets together and sanded it down to make the airfoil. Speaking of which...what is good sandpaper to use as far as grit?

Thanks!
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:24 AM   #20
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Great advice as usual Chellie. That's my shopping list for cheap yet totally effective electronics. Magic!
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:01 AM   #21
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I use 180 to 220 grit for sandpaper the foam I'm working with and it does quite nicely.

I'll defer the wing making question to those more knowledgeable.

As far as making your own design, I say DO IT! Foam is cheap, and its fun to see your own creation come together! You'll end up with a billion more questions as you go, and I've never seen a question not answered in some way on this forum.

I like the rule of thumb, "If it looks like it should fly, it will fly."

If you have something in mind, sketch it out and start thinking about how to take sheets of foam and turn it into your airplane. It really is awesome to work through that!

All of my landings are three point landings if you count the spinner, too
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by computerman0219 View Post
Thanks again to everyone for all the help! I am planning on starting one tomorrow...HOWEVER now I am stuck. I dont know what to build? I would like to design my own but at the sametime I think after thinking it through that its going to be harder than it seems. So I was thinking about building one (a simple one, my first scratch built plane) from someones plans or design. The only motors I have right now are off a hobbyzone super cub and one from a C-182 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=6331). SO I am not sure what to build...any suggestions? I was thinking about a slowflyer or 3D but any will do..Thanks!
Hi the cessna 182 motor may be ok to use, the ad says its like a TP2908-21 motor, thats a typo, tower pro does not make a 2908-21 motor, they make a 2408-21, motor they do make a 2908 motor but not with the -21 on the end, I think the c-182 motor will work fine for a scratch built plane, because its a 1500+ KV motor, and a 7x6 apc prop will work great with a 3 cell lipo and 25 Amp esc, hope that helps, Chellie

Building around the 2408-21 motor
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40096

here are some suggestions.





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Old 05-17-2011, 03:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
I Taught Burt Rutan all he Knows LOL, Ok Just kidding, Take care and Have fun, Chellie
Lol! I thought that was how it was but was unsure. I guess you are the Burt Rutan of RC!
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:45 PM   #24
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Wow you have all the information Chellie! Your so good at helping! I havent ordered any Depron online yet so I guess for my first build I will be using the foam at Lowes. Which I know you said isn't as good but I'm trying to keep the price at minimum on my first build because I don't see it turning out very well.

Also Chellie (or anyone else ) do you have any advice for creating the wing and the placement of the wing?


Thanks again!
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:27 PM   #25
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Laminate a couple of pieces of foam together and sculpt the shape you would like! You can use a hot wire foam cutter, band saw, jig saw (messy) or even a hack saw to make the rough cuts. Sand to the airfoil profile you like. If you want to be very exact about the profile, make templates in the shape of the airfoil (cross-section) and glue those to the end of each block. You can use these as a guide to get a pretty close rough cut. Then sand smooth.

Practice cutting foam with whatever you are going to use to get a feel for it. It really is easy to work with.

As far as wing placement goes, that to a degree, depends on what type of plane you are building and how you want it to fly. Are you thinking high, mid or low wing? Keep in mind that the wing is the balance point for the plane. You want your cg, as Chellie said, at about 25% of wing chord back from the leading edge. So that will dictate, to a large degree, the placement of the fuselage relative to the wing.

Take a look at similar models to the design you are thinking. A good way to have a starting point is to base wing area and fuselage length on another design, but with the lines of the airplane being your design.
I'm a big fan of trial and error with this, as long as it doesn't cost me money!

Hope I'm not rambling. Just dive on in!

All of my landings are three point landings if you count the spinner, too
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Scratch Built Fokker Dr.1 scigs30 Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 17 05-09-2011 03:36 PM
Show us some of your Scratch Built Planes Propjobbill Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 28 04-21-2011 05:31 AM
1930's style cabin plane scratch built for elec r/c. CBN FVR Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 37 04-16-2011 01:45 AM


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