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Old 05-24-2011, 04:42 PM   #1
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Default Nona air wheels?

Nona air wheels. Anybody used them?
Hi folks.
I have just taken delivery of a pair of 7" dia. Nona 'Air wheels' - that aren't air wheels in the sense of being filled with air (as the Dubro offerings are) but seem to be filled with hard foam. They have hardly any flex in them at all. I am seriously considering taking them apart and scraping at least some of the filling out in order to get them to flex enough under a model of about 12 - 15 pounds weight to look scale and to offer more contact with the ground.

The good aspects of these wheels are...
their general appearance (although at this size there is too little tyre to hub in proportion for a WW2 bomber)
Their weight (7" dia 10.5 ounces compared to Dubro 6" of 11 ounces)
And the bearings - (two ball bearings per wheel... no other manufacturer seems to offer this)
http://www.flugmodellbau-shop.eu/ind...ir-Raeder.html

Has anyone used these?
Better still has anyone else done the adaptation I mention above?

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:39 AM   #2
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Update:
I learn, via the good offices of a fellow forumite who is fluent in both English and German, that the tyres are all rubber. Solid rubber for the surface and foamed rubber for the filling, so the thought of finding a solvent to dissolve the filling falls by the wayside.

I was offered a refund, but the Nona tyres are the cheapest I have found for a 7" diameter and I have not been able to find an alternative that is not made in the same way, so there would be no point in buying a new set of wheels only to find myself with exactly the same problem and yet more expenditure. (The Nona wheels cost me 45 including postage).

I am currently looking for a method of rolling the tyre off the chrome plastic hubs, but the rim is quite deep and the tyre so inflexible that it will take a considerable amount of force.
The only alternative seems to be to cut off one side rim.
I anticipate that, assuming that the tyre can be removed, I will be using a routing chisel to remove the offending filling of the tyre.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:52 AM   #3
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you might be able to heat the rubber tires in hot water before taking them off the rim, wear thick gloves so you dont get burnt with the hot water, also use hot water on the tires to get them back on the other rim, Hope that helps, Chellie

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Old 05-28-2011, 04:46 PM   #4
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Thankyou for taking the time to reply CHELLIE, you are the only one so far from my request put out over 3 forums!
I must admit I didn't think about that method, although having found out a lot more about the wheels I am far from optimistic about its possibility of success. Thankyou anyway.

Further update:
I have spent the morning attacking these tyres and have discovered a lot about them.
Having failed to lever the tyre off the rim (The hubs are cast in one piece) and accepting that I would have to cut away one rim of the hub to get the tyre off at all, I first burned through the inner face (see photos) with a soldering iron, then cut the spokes with a keyhole saw. I was then able to pry the cut-away rim out of the tyre. I had to use more force to do this than I had expected. I could then force the rest of the hub clear of the tyre.
It was evident from the striations inside the tyre that the manufacturer had experienced difficulty in getting the tyre on in the first place.
It would appear that the tyre was not fully cured at that stage with the foam inside not fully expanded and set and that that size of tyre would have been much better put on a rim of a smaller diameter. I think it would still have been excessively tight on the rim of the 6" wheel.

So here is my first suggestion to the manufacturer: Using a smaller hub would not pinch the inner parts of the tyre in so hard, allowing it to look consistently curved and much more scale.

Having got the tyre clear of the wreckage of the hub I then cut round inside the rims on both sides at different angles, being careful not to cut through the side walls, and cut out a small amount of foam. From that point I was faced with a tyre still full of very fine-celled foam rubber and no apparent way of getting it out.
After trying a curved woodworking chisel and my small long-nosed pliers it seems that the latter is the most viable way of nibbling away at the foam, but after half an hour more of strenuous effort you can see that I have hardly started.
At the present rate of progress I estimate that I will be doing well if I get the tyre holled out within a solid day of working.

All this to get a tyre that is soft and resilient enough to offer a measure of shock absorbtion to relieve the landing stress on the undercarriage struts. (yes, and there's another awaiting the same treatment!)
Presumably there are modellers out there who actually WANT their tyres to be hard?...
Or are we ALL only buying foam filled wheels at this size because it is all that's on offer anywhere?
So on the assumption that someone (presumably having an extremely heavy model) who wants their tyres to be almost completely lacking in flexure, my second suggestion to manufacturers is: Scrap the foam filling and put an inner tube in so that we can pump our tyres up to the correct pressure for our individual purposes.
My model is probably only going to be about 15 pounds where others may be building up to 50 pound models that would use a 7" wheel. A pneumatic tyre would allow all to be properly provided for.

Dubro do offer a proper pneumatic tyre, but sadly not in sizes above 6", and they use too thick a tyre wall anyway and are consequently very heavy.
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  • Spokes cut through by keyhole saw. 114.3 KB Views: 0
  • The tyre liberated at last. 1 hour spent. 124.0 KB Views: 0
  • Striations show the force used in manufacture. Notice that the rim has cut into the inner sidewall of the tyre suggesting that too much foam is pumped into the tyre. 87.5 KB Views: 1
  • And that's all I harvested in another hour of work with knife and pliers. 93.0 KB Views: 0
  • The new tyre. As hard as hard-grade balsa wood. Looks good... feels awful! 109.1 KB Views: 1

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 05-29-2011, 01:40 PM   #5
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Thats what we have to do sometimes to get Exactly what we want, is to modify other parts and make it work The best of luck you getting those tires just right for your model, Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 05-29-2011, 02:16 PM   #6
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Any chance that soaking the rubber in a solvent might soften it? We used to soften up BMX tires for ice riding with carb cleaner back when we were kids. Probably didn't do anything really, but we thought it did. A small bleach bath maybe?

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Old 05-29-2011, 04:40 PM   #7
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There is now a choice of 5 tyres all basically the same... and each one learned about seems more expensive than the last! At least I'm working on the cheapest!
Like you say CHELLIE, sometimes you just have to do the work.
I'm just surprised that I always seem to be the one out of step. Comes from designing light I suppose. Nobody else has said 'I agree, they build tyres far too hard' so it must just be me.

K CLOSE, I had rather discarded the possibility of using solvent of any kind once I learned that the tyre surface and the foam filling were the same rubber, but now that I have a small pile of bits I could perhaps experiment a bit. Anything that would save time working away on a boring job would be welcomed.

Another option is a visit to a local firm who do rubber products to discuss the possibilities of a purpose made tyre. It would only have to be like a very small bicycle inner tube with a bit more thickness. Unless I really am the only one wanting pneumatic tyres there is certainly a nice hole in the market. It would be nice to be able to specify a suitable tyre for the design. At least anyone who wanted to build the same model would be spared this rather frustrating search.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:32 AM   #8
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Well, the local firm has disappeared so that option is out of the window.
I'm back to the looking for solvents now in the hope that I can find one I can paint on the foam inside so I can scrape it out with a purpose made ply spachelor that should leave me with a fairly uniform wall thickness. I have garnered the names 'Dibutyl Phthalate' and 'Dimethyl something unpronouncable' referred to as DMDBH. Now I need to find out if either are available (in small quantities).
That'll be after the weekend though - got a busy one coming up.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:55 AM   #9
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maybe you can melt it out with a soldering gun, form a circle with a piece of wire onto a soldering gun and cut it out with heat, just my 2 cents worth

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Old 06-02-2011, 09:13 AM   #10
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Thanks again CHELLIE, I did try that briefly, sticking the soldering iron's tip in there to see if it melted the foam. It didn't have any serious effect and I realised that the restricted access between the rims, together with my previous experience of wire loop cutting dragged so much (in what was only white foam) that it was unlikely to offer me much joy.
Maybe a stiff wire round the tip of my heavier duty iron (still only 25W thought) might be worth a try - after the weekend.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by eye4wings View Post
Thanks again CHELLIE, I did try that briefly, sticking the soldering iron's tip in there to see if it melted the foam. It didn't have any serious effect and I realised that the restricted access between the rims, together with my previous experience of wire loop cutting dragged so much (in what was only white foam) that it was unlikely to offer me much joy.
Maybe a stiff wire round the tip of my heavier duty iron (still only 25W thought) might be worth a try - after the weekend.
Yes, i think you will need at least 100 Watts or better yet 150 watts

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Old 06-03-2011, 05:52 PM   #12
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I could not find a soft scale tire for my top flight AT-6 so i built my own shocks for landing gear with soft spring. It made landings alot better and it also looked cool as i taxied ,the wing tips would go up and down like a real one going through dirt or grass. joe
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:01 PM   #13
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Yes Joe, thanks for reminding me. That is one of the two fall-back positions I have. The other is go down to the 6" Dubro airwheels and hope no scale buffs notice! I think both options beat having to scale the drawings down to 1:12 and build new retracts.

The 6" Dubros were on the gear at the time I made this video...

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:13 PM   #14
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This is to funny ,at least you like the short brothers. Very nice set of landing gear. Here is my short. I almost forgot ,if you build short sea planes there is no mucking around with wheels.lol joe


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Old 06-03-2011, 08:44 PM   #15
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I wouldn't say I like Short Brothers aircraft in general Joe (that 360 is a wierd looking thing... and what about the Skyvan?), I came at this model from the point of thinking that it was the first heavy bomber in the RAF and I have never seen a model of one at any fly-in I've attended. Just trying to redress the balance... every man and his dog are flying Lancasters and there is the occasional Halifax but no Stirling. Seems overdue for some recognition.

I take your point on seaplanes, but I already drive 26 miles to fly off concrete and I don't even know of a lake within that range that isn't part of a wildlife reserve. So if you have a convenient pond think yourself fortunate. I couldn't even reckon on flying off wet grass. We have had more record dry months in the last year or so than I remember. It used to be that England was lush and green... but I won't HAARP on about it!

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:01 PM   #16
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I think that you will figure the landing gear out and be the first one to model that short. I have a close friend building a 25% beach starship another airplane no one wants to tackle as far as a model. I just checked with him on bigger or better wheels as he only builds giant planes and he said dubro is what he uses and knows of no other company . I am here in the US but i like english planes and they made some great sea planes. Send me a pm and let me know when you start a build thread so i can watch you build her. Good luck with the wheels. joe
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:15 PM   #17
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Much as I would like to show you the build my editor doesn't like me to offer him material that the world has already seen (understandably), so it will be someone else posting the build once it is published and the plan is available to all.
Start looking for it in a year or so... and probably on RCGroups.
So, sorry to disappoint!

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by eye4wings View Post
Yes Joe, thanks for reminding me. That is one of the two fall-back positions I have. The other is go down to the 6" Dubro airwheels and hope no scale buffs notice! I think both options beat having to scale the drawings down to 1:12 and build new retracts.

The 6" Dubros were on the gear at the time I made this video...
Very nice retracts well done, I think your going to need to use air power to get the power that you need to operate them with, as a servo i dont think will be strong enough or have enough throw to operate them with, and they ( servos) will be heavy, Just my 2 cents worth, Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 06-03-2011, 10:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by eye4wings View Post
Much as I would like to show you the build my editor doesn't like me to offer him material that the world has already seen (understandably), so it will be someone else posting the build once it is published and the plan is available to all.
Start looking for it in a year or so... and probably on RCGroups.
So, sorry to disappoint!
No disappointment here. lol joe cheers
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:14 PM   #20
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CHELLIE, I do hope I won't have to go to all the trouble on installing an air system... I've never done so in the past and don't propose to start now.
At the moment I'm pinning my hopes on a couple of 12V DC motors I have salvaged from video machines. They are the size of half a brushed speed 400. I have put a stage of gearing on one of them to link to a worm drive (6BA) to run in a pivoted nut on the top arm. It's a bit low powered on 4V but I am hoping for a 2S power system which will be better... and if I have to go 3S it'll go well, but I shall not know if it'll do the job until I get a wing half built for the trial installation.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by eye4wings View Post
CHELLIE, I do hope I won't have to go to all the trouble on installing an air system... I've never done so in the past and don't propose to start now.
At the moment I'm pinning my hopes on a couple of 12V DC motors I have salvaged from video machines. They are the size of half a brushed speed 400. I have put a stage of gearing on one of them to link to a worm drive (6BA) to run in a pivoted nut on the top arm. It's a bit low powered on 4V but I am hoping for a 2S power system which will be better... and if I have to go 3S it'll go well, but I shall not know if it'll do the job until I get a wing half built for the trial installation.
That should work well, a worm gear will give you a lot of power, Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 06-03-2011, 11:34 PM   #22
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:31 AM   #23
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That's a rather expensive way of doing things CHELLIE... or was when I last checked. But in the (quite possible) event of my shaky engineering letting me down, it is an option. After cost, the next big benefit of DIY is that the end stops can be set wherever desired by microswitches.

Nice try - but no cigar!
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