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Old 06-07-2011, 06:34 PM   #1
lrtrees
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Default Help With A Hobby Lobby Miss 2

I am fairly new to this flying thing and am learning a lot, but have a question that I could sure use some help with.
I have recently put together a Miss 2. I am using a HK Park 480 with the Rhino 3s 2150 20C LiPo battery. As far as I can tell everything is set up correctly and the trims also appear to be as they should be.
The motor, I think, is plenty strong for a/c, but here is the question. In the air, it really wants to climb, climb, climb. Seems that no mater where I set the throttle or which prop I use, it wants to climb. Would one guess that I might not have the CG correct? It calls for a CG of 60 - 65mm from front of wing. I am right in there.
I can say that in looking at the a/c from the side, the motor does appear to be pointed in a slightly down position. The firewall pretty much sees to that. And when checking the CG, it does appear to be slightly nose heavy. Now I do need to get a device to use in checking the CG more accurately since I currently just draw a line for the min and max CG and then check between those points using my finger tips. I know, not the best, but should be close?
I know the motor I have installed is heavier than the one Hobby Lobby recommends and I even add a little weight in the nose.
With all power off it is better, but still is inclined to pitch up.

If you have any thoughts and/or suggestions, I sure would appreciate the help.

Thanks,
Lon
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:15 PM   #2
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Hi Lon,
WELCOME to WattFlyer! It's always great to see new faces.

You touched on a good point, if the model flies correctly when you are powered Off but climbs steeply with the throttle applied, then it is definitely a motor thrust-angle issue.

Have you tried to trim it for level flight using the elevator trim? I'm curious to see how much surface deflection it takes to make your Miss fly level.

Most folks set their planes up for level flight at 60% throttle.

I know that's not really a good answer. Hopefully a guru will drop in soon and give better guidance.

Please call me John. I came up w/ Max2112 when I thought you were all internet predators after me Lucky Charms!!
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:46 PM   #3
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I think I may have figured it out. Now if I can explain it. When building the Miss 2 I had notes from another individual who had built the same a/c. One of the items mentioned in the notes was to make sure that the horiz. stab was parallel with the wing. On his model the left, capt's, side of the a/c needed to be sanded slightly to make it parallel. Mine I found was also a little high, so I sanded it down. But what I failed to check after doing this was if the front to back cord of the horiz. stab was now still parallel with the front to back cord of the wing. Well it is not. It is not off by much, but the leading edge of the horiz. stab is somewhat lower than it should be. Correct me if I am wrong, but I, without thinking, built in some up elevator which would cause a nose pitching up situation.
Stupid, did I mention that I am learning? Would you agree with my conclusion?
Anyway, if I am right, now I have to figure out how to get these glue joints apart so I can fix it.

Thanks for feedback,
Lon
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:23 AM   #4
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That sounds reasonable for me. That is worth pursuing. But once that is done your next step is to see how she glides power off. If it doesn't want to pitch up then and only does it when power is applied, then you have a thrust line adjustment to do.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by lrtrees View Post
...It is not off by much, but the leading edge of the horiz. stab is somewhat lower than it should be...
Lon
That's probably it. The horizontal stab will have a much greater effect, due to its larger area, than the elevator. Just a degree or two could make a big difference.

I like to set up my elevator and rudder for bolt-on installation for easier replacement and/or adjustment. It is not always possible to get the proper incidence right off the building board.

~Tim
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
That sounds reasonable for me. That is worth pursuing. But once that is done your next step is to see how she glides power off. If it doesn't want to pitch up then and only does it when power is applied, then you have a thrust line adjustment to do.
Rockin robbins is dead on , after getting the stab where it needs to be . If flying level with motor running a little and then adding power and it climbs alot, you will need to shim motor down thrust to stop the climbing.It doesent take much. joe
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:53 PM   #7
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It's one of the things that makes full flying stabs a joy to work with!

Once upon a time there was a progression in the hobby. We started building solid balsa free flight gliders, graduated to stick and tissue, added rubber power, then possibly IC engine powered free flight. Then once we were confident we understood all the tuning principles necessary to persuade a pile of sticks and paper to behave itself properly and retain the general shape of an airplane before and after flight, we considered radio control. Many were just happy with free flight.

Now free flight is almost non-existent. What was considered a necessary rite of passage and a great hobby in its own right is now the appendix of model aeronautics. What a shame!
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:42 PM   #8
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What?? No pictures!!!

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Old 06-08-2011, 06:13 PM   #9
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I had the same problem with my Miss Sr. it would fly level with about 1/10 throttle, any more and it would climb radically unless I gave it a $#!tload of down elevator trim. In fact at full throttle (even with the trim) it would dart up and hover!

The plans do show an angle on incidence, meaning a line drawn along the H. Stab and the flat bottom of the main wind would intersect at an upward angle. I was thinking my problem was the plane needed more down thrust with the stronger brushless motor, but I could be wrong. I'm keeping tabs on this thread, let me know how your solution works. The Miss 2 is a very similar bird.

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Old 06-08-2011, 06:41 PM   #10
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Well I cut the horiz. stab off the a/c and will go at a fix that way. I did shim up the wing and tried it this morning. It was better, but I did not have it shimmed quit enough. I think fixing the horiz. stab will look better, but it will take some time.

I will be away for several days so will tackle it when I get back. I believe the motor thrust angle is ok, but will sure consider that if after correcting the horiz. stab, it still does not seem right. I believe the stab was off more than I first thought.

This is a learning process or work in progress!!

Thanks,
Lon
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Old 06-08-2011, 06:47 PM   #11
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Flywheel if it does it with a strong motor ,it will more than likely do it with a regular one. If it needs a shim for more down thrust it would not change with size of motor, just climb faster with yours. Old time airplanes like my sr playboy takes off at full throttle and will climb almost straight up with me holding full down elevator ,then kill the motor and hunt for thermals . If you guys keep building invest in a incidence meter for checking every thing . I have a couple now just incase iam building a biplane ,or sears sells a meter real cheap that is for welding and reads in degrees. good luck with your planes guys.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:21 PM   #12
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Hey guy's, thanks for your help and suggestions.

I just wanted to stop by and let you know that I completed the adjustment and took her out this morning. What a different performing a/c. She flew very good and well mannered. She still wants to climb when given excess power, but it is a controllable climb. Before if I wanted to to a straight up vertical climb, she just wanted to roll over on her back. but now just straight up and up and up.

And the landing are not nearly as nail biting. Now to just work on those grass landings.

Thanks again,
Lon
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:43 PM   #13
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Now for some thermals , climb high as you fell safe then kill the motor adujust trim with some up elev till it flying level but not to slow. Over black top is a great place to find thermals or dry dirt fields .When you hit a thermal you will see it climb and then cycrle around to hit it again .On a day when the sun is out and small white puffy clouds are around is a great day for thermals. I have a buzzerd bombshell that i flew for 2 hours with the glow motor turned off,i let kids behind the safty fence fly it for at least 45 minutes and they were having a blast just controling the rudder. Gladd to hear you got the gremlins out of her Lon . joe
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