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Old 07-05-2011, 10:11 AM   #1
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Default DX6i / Ar6200 Failed range check

Hoping one of you might be able to offer some adviceÖ

I have an axn cloud and replaced out the motor and ESC due to the cheap stock motor failing and causing the ESC to smoke! The installation hasnít changed physically i.e. the receiver and ESC are within the same proximity.

The problem is since Iíve rewired it the radio keeps failing a range check at about 10 paces! The servos stutter when I reduce the power to the system. Moreover, I canít seem to connect the battery to connect with the receiver light flashing indicated signal fades.


Iím using a AR6200 and a DX6i. Is this likely to be a faulty component or a dodgy installation?

Btw, the setup was fine before

Cheers
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:36 PM   #2
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Are the new motor and esc larger? Did you have to move the receiver to complete the installation?
First thing to check is the receiver antenna placement. It is very small on that receiver and can be easily overlooked when putting it all back together. It may now be in a position where you are getting interference from the new equipment.

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Old 07-05-2011, 01:50 PM   #3
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If at all possible, I'd start by taking all the electric gear out and perform a bench test making double sure nothing is shading or obscuring the antennas. If you see the same behavior, something in your system is wrong and I'd start by measuring the supply voltage. If everything works on the bench, you probably have antenna placement issues. Make sure the antenna isn't in contact with any metal spars etc. Anything metal will KILL your signal.

I hope it works out for you!

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Old 07-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #4
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Thanks for your replies.

It is a more powerful motor and higher rated ESC but the installation is the same as before. I made sure to straighten out the short antenna wires and there are no exposed metal parts.

I have a spare AR500 receiver that I can test the system but are reluctant to use this even for parkflyers as a model shop advised me the range is limited. I thought all 'full range' receives should be capable of flying as far as the eye can see?
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:34 PM   #5
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The AR500 is full range. It's the AR6115 et al that aren't. I'd swap the receivers just to rule out a bad rx. But I'd measure the voltages before I do that. It's entirely possible that your new ESC has a faulty BEC that's not delivering enough juice to the RX. Hook everything up and measure the voltage between the ground pin and the plus pin (the middle one). You should have between 5.5V and 6.0V (and absolutely not below 5.0V). Try moving the servos and make sure the voltage doesn't drop. If that looks ok, I'd try a different RX to rule out a faulty unit.

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Old 07-05-2011, 05:50 PM   #6
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That AR500 is pretty darn bulletproof out to close to 2 miles. I'd switch the receivers out as a check, but this is a pretty interesting case. The first thing to check is whatever changed in the system immediately before encountering the problem. That is the power system. Then it is a case of deciding whether that is just a coincidence or what aspect of the power system resulted in the problem.

Keep us posted!
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dazza View Post
Hoping one of you might be able to offer some advice…

I have an axn cloud and replaced out the motor and ESC due to the cheap stock motor failing and causing the ESC to smoke! The installation hasn’t changed physically i.e. the receiver and ESC are within the same proximity.

The problem is since I’ve rewired it the radio keeps failing a range check at about 10 paces! The servos stutter when I reduce the power to the system. Moreover, I can’t seem to connect the battery to connect with the receiver light flashing indicated signal fades.


I’m using a AR6200 and a DX6i. Is this likely to be a faulty component or a dodgy installation?

Btw, the setup was fine before

Cheers
As others have indicated, take a real close look at the receiver voltage. If you have, or have access to a good 4 cell nih receiver battery, first unplug your throttle plug from the ESC, then plug in the receiver 4 cell receiver battery. Then check range. If it's good, then look at your ESC servo plug, lift the little plastic restrainer (don't break it off!) and slide out the red wire. Cover the red wire with a piece of tape. Then re-check range with the receiver battery and ESC all live.

If it still acts up, you've got problems.

If you've not used a digital volt meter, take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52821

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Old 07-05-2011, 08:25 PM   #8
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Normally 2.4 is not affected by RFI, but you could have way to much RFI from your new setup, affecting your servos, Does your new ESC have a ferrite ring magnet on the esc to receiver plug, if not, you may want to install one on it, also get a UBEC, Castle creation has a very nice 10 AMP Ubec, tape off the red wire from the esc to receiver plug, a ubec is a must with 2.4 if your not using a seperate battery pack for the receiver and servos. Who makes the esc that your using ?

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...t=ubec+chellie

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...0&pid=B3144784


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Old 07-06-2011, 02:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Normally 2.4 is not affected by RFI, but you could have way to much RFI from your new setup, affecting your servos, Does your new ESC have a ferrite ring magnet on the esc to receiver plug, if not, you may want to install one on it, also get a UBEC, Castle creation has a very nice 10 AMP Ubec, tape off the red wire from the esc to receiver plug, a ubec is a must with 2.4 if your not using a seperate battery pack for the receiver and servos. Who makes the esc that your using ?

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...t=ubec+chellie

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...0&pid=B3144784
I second the motion for the Castle Creations uBEC switching power supply BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit). I've got 4 of them, all have worked perfectly over 4 years of flying with them. Also have three Common Sense BEC's, also work well.

It is not easy to generate 2.4 Ghz (Thats 2400 Megahertz, where your FM radio is 88-108 Megahertz). It takes specialized electronics to do it. It works, take a look at the millions of cellphones out there.

That said, it is far more difficult to generate 2.4 Ghz electrical noise by accident. Which is why 2.4 Ghz radio is so resistant to interference from our electric motors, and on the other stuff, electrical noise from gasser engines ignition systems.

What 2.4 Ghz radio receivers will not withstand is poor, or lousy battery sources for receiver power. Going to the Castle Creations 10 Amp uBEC system will provide a solid battery signal for most models, even up to the giant scale class. (Yup, I've got one, with seven Hitec 645MG servos)

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Old 07-06-2011, 10:02 AM   #10
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I have a spare AR500 to test the system but am reluctant to use it as I've heard negative reports since i purchased it. Even though the AUW is light at around 750grams I don't want to risk a signal loss.

The ESC is made by 'black mantis' 30A and is a supposedly a high output uBEC supporting extreme loads. The AXN cloud is a gentle parkflyer so I thought the system would not need a external uBEC. I do use a ferrite ring.

When the system fried originally it may have damaged the Rx so I'll swap that out and test each servo in turn to rule them out. If I don't need it I'd like not to use the uBEC as space in the fuse is extremelt tight and i can just about get the ESC in.

ESC - http://www.giantcod.co.uk/black-mant...-p-402905.html
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dazza View Post
I have a spare AR500 to test the system but am reluctant to use it as I've heard negative reports since i purchased it. Even though the AUW is light at around 750grams I don't want to risk a signal loss.

The ESC is made by 'black mantis' 30A and is a supposedly a high output uBEC supporting extreme loads. The AXN cloud is a gentle parkflyer so I thought the system would not need a external uBEC. I do use a ferrite ring.

When the system fried originally it may have damaged the Rx so I'll swap that out and test each servo in turn to rule them out. If I don't need it I'd like not to use the uBEC as space in the fuse is extremelt tight and i can just about get the ESC in.

ESC - http://www.giantcod.co.uk/black-mant...-p-402905.html
Don't be scared of the AR500! A somewhat educated guess is that it's the most common Spektrum RX out there, as it used to be the standard RX in all the ParkZone BNF parkflyers. There must be thousands of AR500 receivers flying successfully every day all over the world. And even if you don't want to fly it with the AR500 (which I think you should), you can do a range test with it. If it fares better than you original RX, you proabably have a faulty RX unit. But before you do that, measure your voltages. If you don't have a voltmeter, you can pick one up at RadioShack for almost no money. My field multimeter is a $15 RadioShack thing that's served me flawlessly for five years!

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Old 07-06-2011, 09:12 PM   #12
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My AR500 was a flawless radio and I'd buy another without hesitation for a long range airplane.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:01 PM   #13
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Hi All,

I swapped out the old receiver and installed the AR500. I did the range check and everything was fine. The control surfaces moved as they should.

So when the motor failed and ESC started smoking it must have taken out the receiver as well.

I was still slightly nervous flying with the AR500 as I fly in a park and you get a few people that cross the flight path. Also as others have posted I find it difficult to connect the lipo on deans without getting the flashing led brownout indication.

I dont suppose there would be a way of reviving the AR6200 or is it good for the bin?

Thanks
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dazza View Post
I dont suppose there would be a way of reviving the AR6200 or is it good for the bin?

Thanks
It's worth a try to call Horizon Hobbies, and see what they think. You might luck out.

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Old 07-10-2011, 06:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dazza View Post
Also as others have posted I find it difficult to connect the lipo on deans without getting the flashing led brownout indication.
Thanks
I'd have those Deans swapped out for EC3s in about fifteen seconds. They're just much easier to live with!
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dazza View Post
Also as others have posted I find it difficult to connect the lipo on deans without getting the flashing led brownout indication.
Thanks

As for the "Brownout" LED indication, if the Spektrum receiver sees a valid battery voltage, then looses it, even briefly, and the DC voltage comes back, it software is programmed to flash indicating a "brownout".

I've been using the Anderson Powerpoles, and have never had an issue with this type of problem on my many AR7000 receivers. Should you consider these Power Pole connectors, be sure to also order the $39 crimper for them. That makes putting a terminal on a wire a 10 second deal. And IMHO, far better than the soldered connections to those connectors that are 100% soldered such as the Deans.

http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-po...pole-sets.html


(Just about any electronics reliability study will show that PROPERLY crimped terminals are more reliable than soldered terminals)

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Old 07-11-2011, 04:07 AM   #17
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Imho, Deans are far better than those nasty,tight EC3's. BUT, having most of my planes on Power Poles ... they are the best! Won't go back and slowly changing all over to Power Poles!
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:07 PM   #18
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Wow! Whodathunkit that crimping could be better than soldering. I don't find soldering EC3s difficult at all, which is part of why I like 'em. I've never had any trouble taking them apart although they are reassuringly tight.

So you can get more amps through and the connection is more mechanically reliable for a properly crimped connection! I NEVER would have thought that. Amazing what you can learn on Wattflyer!
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
So you can get more amps through and the connection is more mechanically reliable for a properly crimped connection! I NEVER would have thought that. Amazing what you can learn on Wattflyer!
One reason is those soldered connections do require that the high currents we use in our models do pass through very thin layers of solder, between the terminal and the wire. And solder has a far higher resistance than copper. Normally it doesn't make a difference, but we are pushing upwards of 50 amps through some of these connections.

A PROPERLY crimped terminal relies on something like a gas tight connection between the terminal and the wire, where the wire itself is actually displaced when the crimping is done.

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Old 07-11-2011, 11:10 PM   #20
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Power Poles are the connector of choice for amateur radio operators also. I do believe that is how we got them, from "hams".
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by dkrhardy View Post
Power Poles are the connector of choice for amateur radio operators also. I do believe that is how we got them, from "hams".
Before retiring, they used the "Anderson Power Poles" at work for some 20 years as battery connectors. They were also used for other various connectors for our 38,000 volt circuit breakers, including connectors for the dual coils of very high powered magnetic actuators. (Those actuators put out a force of some 400 pounds, and moved about 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch in about 0.01 seconds.)

When you are dealing with a circuit breaker capable of clearing a 38KV, 16,000 ampere three phase fault, reliability of all components from the control to the circuit breaker is critical.

We used several thousand of them a month, and very seldom ever had a problem with them.

Take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46890

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Old 07-14-2011, 01:28 PM   #22
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Hi All,

I received a response back from Horizon Hobby saying it is quite possible for a faulty ESC to take out a Rx.

Guess the morale of the story is dont use a decent Rx with low quality stock electronics.

Cheers
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dazza View Post
Hi All,

I received a response back from Horizon Hobby saying it is quite possible for a faulty ESC to take out a Rx.

Guess the morale of the story is dont use a decent Rx with low quality stock electronics.

Cheers
If the ESC 5 volt regulator went out, I'd also be worried about your servos.

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Old 07-15-2011, 05:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dkrhardy View Post
Power Poles are the connector of choice for amateur radio operators also. I do believe that is how we got them, from "hams".

I've never EVER crimped anything in any of my amps or radios. Solder only baby.

Watt goes up, will come down...
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by scott-p View Post
I've never EVER crimped anything in any of my amps or radios. Solder only baby.
You can also solder those Anderson Powerpoles, but crimping is far faster and more reliable.

The big problem with crimping terminals, is the crimping tool itself. Professional quality crimpers for the Anderson Power Poles runs well into the hundreds of dollars. Each. If you use the wrong crimpers, or cheap crimpers you can have the crimped wire fall out of the terminal. Or worse, have the crimper nearly cut the crimped wire in half. This is where soldering the terminal will work very well for 95% of the electric model functions.

You do need to provide stress relief by putting a piece of shrink tubing over the end of the soldered terminal to prevent flexing at this junction. What can happen is solder wicks out from the soldered connection, inside the insulation. Soldered wire doesn't bend well, and high vibration levels can cause failure here. At work, I've actually run across very expensive ($500++) cables flexing in the wind on the top of a high voltage power pole. That flexing resulted in all of the wires inside the cable flexing, work hardening, and fracturing inside the insulation of each of the several dozen wires inside the cable sheath. Bottom line, on those big gassers, be sure to properly secure all cables so they can't vibrate, or come loose at the connector ends by the receiver.

I've picked up this crimper for $39. IMHO, not nearly as good as those $$$$ crimpers designed to be used day after day for years in industry. But for our use, it provided for a good quality crimping job, and it will likely last for years.

http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-po...pole-sets.html

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