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Old 07-07-2011, 01:50 PM   #1
C-pher
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Default First Trainer, I'm NEW to this...

Hello everyone. I've tried to do some searching, but I'm not really finding what I'm looking for...though I've never been great a pHp searches.

I've picked up a Simulator (Phoenix) and have been playing with the trainers on there for a bit. But, the trainer sections are all gas powered planes, and I want to start out with Electric as it seems that there's less accessories to get up front. Or as it seems to me... The electric trainer that I found on there was a three channel, so I haven't really used it much.

I've spoken to a local flying club up here...and even went down there last weekend with my daughter to watch a few planes fly. I spoke to one of the guys down there for a few, but we didn't really get too much into things as I didn't want to bother them while they were flying.

I also have a large High School near me with TONS of open space if I wanted to learn around there with a small plane.

My problem is I don't want to start with something really small. The good thing is I have a DX5e that came with the Simulator. So I'm looking for a plane that I can use with that.

I don't want to spend a TON of money to get started as I'm sure I'm going to crash the thing even with practicing on the Sim. But I don't want to go cheap either as I would like to really learn what I'm supposed to do from the start. I had figured that I'm going to spend around 170-300 bucks for my first RTF plane.

Which is what I want to do, as I have to admit I'm a little nervous building one from scratch without really knowing anything about them. So, if I can do ARF or RTF pretty easily, then that's how I want to go.

I saw in another thread that the Hobbyzone Super Cub is a good one to start with...I like that it's a little larger and might be forgiving in the wind. But I see that it comes with a one stick controler...so I didn't know if it would bind to the one that I have. I also can't really see if there's other ones out there that might be better for me to learn on than that one.

From what I've read, I think that I want to come out of the gate with a four channel plane. It seems that's where I need to head if I want to grow. So learning with three channels I'll have to re-learn turning down the line...and I'd rather just be comfortable with it to start. That way, it's more natural to me when I get that second plane and start flying 3D in a week or two. JUST KIDDING!! Actually, I don't understand how to use the rudder anyway on the Sim, so I just keep playing with things to see what happens. I'm actually able to fly around in both figure 8's and large ovals and even land the trainer planes that I'm working with...again, on the computer. I know that it's going to be different when I get out there.

(You know that I had to try some of the other planes...

...that didn't work out so well. So, back to the trainers.)

There's a guy from the club I contacted (thanks to a member on here for directing me to that club) that is out of town...but said that he'll work with me when he comes back. So there is someone to help me down the road.

But, where I'm really at is very confused on where to start with my first plane. As I don't know much, I really want to just make it as easy as I can and get a kit that pretty much has everything that I'll need.

I was willing to even do that with a nitro plane, but I don't see one that comes with the box, pump, glow thing, starter drill thing, all that stuff that I see these guys at the field show up with. So much stuff. That's why I want to start electric. It seems like there's kits that come with everything, I just would buy a few extra batteries so I can fly more than one time when I get to the field.

So, that's where I'm at...or at least think that's where I'm at. I really don't know anything more than what I've read. That's why I'm looking for any direction that I can get.

Thanks, and sorry if it was long winded.

C-pher
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:47 PM   #2
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If you want to start of with a four channel plane you may want to check out the apprentice.
But I recommend starting with something like the Hz supercub first. It is a good size. Replacement parts are plentiful and Cheap. It will bind to the transmitter you already have if you get the bnf version. It has a huge following with many sites on the web devoted to modifying it in the future to 4 channels with ailerons. Can't go wrong with a cub.
Sim time can help with learning about orientation and getting used to the controls.
But you will find the pucker factor goes up exponentially when you fly a real plane.
Things are a little more difficult in real life compared to a sim.
In a sim I can knife edge and go inverted 2 inches off the deck all day long. Not so much in real life.

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Old 07-07-2011, 04:38 PM   #3
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Phoenix sim is a great sim, and if you learn to fly a trainer on there - regardless of power system, you'll have a huge jump on the learning curve. You'll have basic flight controls down, basic orientation down, basic muscle memory in using your TX to think ahead and fly your plane, not be flown by it.

Having someone local help will also help work through any bad habits the sim might teach. One of the biggest being 'reset switch'.

I have a strong opinion that if you want to really get into the hobby, start out with learning on a 4ch and all the ins-and outs. super cub is great if you starting on your own and want to go to the park and learn to fly. IMHO they're a bit of a waste if you know you want to go bigger and have sim time already.

If you want to fly in the park, I'd suggest something like a '400 size' type trainer, out of EPP foam. The down side is it's hard to find one with ailerons. Nitro takes learning how to deal with engines (a lot of fun, but a whole hobby in itself) electric can be plug and play if you get a ready to fly system, but if you're serious about electric you will need a good charger.

My recommendations:

Electric is great, and best for parks and 'throw it in the car for lunch time fun'
Pick up a new or used FMA CellPro4 charger for you lipo batteries
Look for a 4 channel trainer or a 3ch thats easy to put ailerons on;
-MS Composite Citabria is a great little plane, add ailerons:
http://www.mscomposit.com/airplanes/.../semiscale.htm
mini nextstar is the right size with the right package: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXXJS4&P=FR
-Apprentice is one of my all time favorites currently available, however it's a bit big for anything but an open field/flying site. http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...ProdID=EFL2900
-Radian pro may seem big, but it's slow and is a great flyer, may be a great start: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=PKZ5480 I've flown 2m gliders around trees in parks, and they do better in tight spots than planes like the apprentice
-Magpie is a great plane that has ailerons as an option: http://www.mountainmodels.com/produc...roducts_id=318
-Minimag is another that should be a great fit: http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ark-flyer.html
-Easystar is another popular first plane, however ailerons would be a modification: http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ervos-esc.html
-If you're comfortable and confident on the sim, something like the t-28 might be a great first plane. great flier and excellent to take you beyond the basics: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=PKZ5080 I wouldn't normally recommend this for a first plane, but with a good sim and some local help many have been able to jump to this plane first.

Hope that was helpful. I'm full of strong opinions on getting started so I'm happy to share them!

There is ALWAYS room for some levity in your brevity!
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:56 PM   #4
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I'm up for all the strong opinions that I can get. That's why I asked.

And that's also why I've been pushing away from the Super Cub because I would rather learn four channels off the bat.

I'm going to look though the ones that you posted and see how it goes. I actually have been looking at the Apprentice 15e, so it might be one that I go for...but I don't want to just buy something just to buy something. If there's something out there that will work better, or end up being something I like more, I'd like to look at that option as well.

I'm not scared of engines...I just don't want to get into them right off the bat. Only because it looks like there's a lot of other stuff you need in order to fly them. Or at least how it seems to me. I think that I will get into them at some point. But I want to start off with the least amount of accessories needed to fly. As I get better, get more interested and have a better understanding, then I'll move to other planes and modes of power.

And I want to thank you guys for your input. It's good to have other views to help me think/see things that I didn't know were out there.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:01 PM   #5
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If it's 4 channels you want, if you do good in the sim(Fly a racetrack pattern and do touch and go's til you barf), and have an experienced teacher, go for the Apprentice.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:55 PM   #6
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I concur on all the great info given, words to live/fly by! Ditto on the Apprentice 15e, and I think it does comes as a Plug and Play kit(PnP), as you already have a dx5e.

Headupsrc.com, Towerhobbies.com, nitroplanes.com are pretty good places to buy good trainers(headsuprc is the best by far!). The multiplex planes high-wing 4ch trainers are really good. (very similar to the Cub and App15e and little cheaper!)

Here's some good reading for you too with info on the basics.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31368

have a good one
cr
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:51 PM   #7
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Hi
Welcome aboard
Some very good suggestions
heres mine
Flyzone Switch
http://www.flyzoneplanes.com/airplanes/hcaa2530/
Flyzone Sensei
http://www.flyzoneplanes.com/airplan...535/index.html
Hobbico Mini Nexstar
http://www.hobbiconexstar.com/nexstar-mini/index.html
Hobbico Nexstar
http://www.hobbiconexstar.com/nexstar-ep/index.html
Any of the Super Cubs
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/HBZ4800.html
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/...f/HBZ7400.html
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/...f/HBZ7300.html
Multiplex easy star
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/.../MPU13203.html
I have and have flown all of these and any one would be perfect for the novice and even the more experienced pilot for some lazy sunday flying
Take care
Yours Hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:57 PM   #8
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Why in the world wouldn't Horizon Hobby sell the Apprentice as a BNF? I think they'd sell more planes that way.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
Why in the world wouldn't Horizon Hobby sell the Apprentice as a BNF? I think they'd sell more planes that way.
Hi
Aye i concur
I would buy one but i dont need another TX to add to my already massive collection of them
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:48 PM   #10
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Hank - the Appren15e is BNF, add your own rcvr to match your TX.

The Switch looks good, great idea behind that one ... how does it fly?

The S Cub doesn't handle wind so well. It is one of my favorites however and with a flattened wing and ailerons it is a most capable 4ch! It is very easy to do the mod, I am mech challenged and I did it. Very easy.

BTW, the Appren15e has a big old foam wing and it does everything well, just a bit lazy doing it! Maybe I need to dial in some more aileron!
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dkrhardy View Post
Hank - the Appren15e is BNF, add your own rcvr to match your TX.

The Switch looks good, great idea behind that one ... how does it fly?

The S Cub doesn't handle wind so well. It is one of my favorites however and with a flattened wing and ailerons it is a most capable 4ch! It is very easy to do the mod, I am mech challenged and I did it. Very easy.

BTW, the Appren15e has a big old foam wing and it does everything well, just a bit lazy doing it! Maybe I need to dial in some more aileron!
Hi
Ah yes i found her But shes a PNP not a BNF
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/...p/EFL2900.html
Either way im getting one
The Switch is the perfect travel aircraft
I keep mine in which ever vehicle im using for the day for a quick spur of the moment rc flight fix
In both modes trainer or aerobat she flies very nicely, quite smooth and very manuverable
Has more then enough power and is definately a blast
I highly recomend her for the novice and even the experianced pilot as well
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:55 AM   #12
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And yet another opinion

http://www.mountainmodels.com/produc...roducts_id=318

Not an RTF and not quite and ARF, but a very easy build, which should help you get a much better understanding as to how these things work.

Choose your own finish so you have a one of a kind plane, easier to pick out when there's a furball going on up there.

Comes with both wings so you can start out with three channels to get a feel for the thing, then the 4 channel to progress.

Great flying plane and handles wind well. Buddy boxed many a person on this thing.

Plus there are a few threads on builds and mods to this one too.

Cheesy poofs are what Yankees get when they eat Southen Food!! bub, steve
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:00 AM   #13
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Wow, thanks guys. So much info to go through. Now I need to decide on which plane I'm looking to get. I'm going to see if the guys in the local club have any of these that maybe I can give a try.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:20 AM   #14
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Heya C-pher,

Sounds like you are going about this in the right way - good for you.

Consider this plane - Multiplex Mini-Mag

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXNXV1&P=7

Not too expensive, flies great as a 3 or 4 channel. comes with a brushed motor and esc so all you need are a couple of small servos (2 for 3 channel, 4 for four channel,) and a receiver. Check heads up for recommendations.

One of the nice things about this plane is that you can start out 3 channnel - which I would recommend regardless of sim time - then switch to 4 channel when you are ready and you DO NOT have to change the wing. Just slice the edges of the ailerons free and install your 2 extra servos and you are ready to go.

The Multiplex kits are very high quality and not too hard to put together, and their foam is extremely durable. Don't start out with a balsa plane - way too hard to fix.

You can also upgrade to a cheap brushless and esc when you want to hop the plane up some - again check heads up for info.

Wolfe
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by kenchiroalpha View Post
Hi
Aye i concur
I would buy one but i dont need another TX to add to my already massive collection of them
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank
Hey Hank,

I know you know that DX5e would only last a few minutes on EBAY before selling, they are getting $100 bucks for a new one, it would go quick at a more reasonable price!!, but you gotta love those BnF's.

have a good one
Christopher
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:08 AM   #16
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Get a Multiplex Easy Star. It is the easiest airplane to fly by far and hard to break. Best of all is that you will still enjoy flying it long after you have moved on to more complex models.
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:56 PM   #17
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The same is true of the Magpie (love the sport wing option! Learn, stick on the sport wing and.....zoom!) and the Apprentice. All great planes that will be fun long after you learn to fly.

And Karnak sees a Slow Stick in your future..........red perhaps?
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:23 PM   #18
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Hank - what I meant and what I said are different things! I meant to say PNP. Sorry 'bout that!
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:49 PM   #19
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Apprentice is a nice plane to fly, tho has ailerons for a starter ship, but with assistance from your local flyers likely pull it off fine, still lean towards the Super Cub, has a strong following and did advance countless people into the hobby. Bashed mine infinite times and always taped fix with ease and flew better than other, the older version with nicad batteries was treed over a week in rain, last retrieved any yep even the battery recharged and flew fantastic, amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_7IyXQTCY



Last year our new flyer, check closely see it nearly graze the small tree, it stalls then skims the turf and he recovers, only cracked the thin cowling easily replaceale. First flights we did take it off and land then he learned quickly, now flys bipes. His learning curve was faster than mine indeed.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:03 PM   #20
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just buy a high-wing 4-channel trainer around the $100 zone. don't get anything too expensive for your first plane as you will crash your plane multiple times unless you are the charles lindbergh of RC. and also, get one that FLIES SLOW! the hobbyzone champ is a good training platform, or if you can get something with tricycle landing gear. the guys that taught me how to fly all said "remember, you fly the airplane, don't let the airplane fly you!" wisest thing i learned about the hobby. don't get intimidated! flying is a lot of fun and rewarding as you gain more skill and especially once you start flying airplanes that YOU wanna fly.

the most challenging aspect of flying is probably landing, or at least that's the toughest for me. like tom petty said about learning to fly, coming down is the hardest thing! LOL

More propeller, mean MORE POWER!
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:42 AM   #21
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But,when it comes right down to it, 3 channel or 4,you're going to tear that first one up anyway.Go with the SC.

ZZ

"ZZ Rider"
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Old 07-15-2011, 12:27 PM   #22
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Yea, I'm still working with the Sim. I'm in IT and we're doing a major upgrade...so I haven't had time to do ANYTHING in the past week. I've already got 185 hours in, in the past two weeks. I still have all day today and tomorrow to go...

I'm ready for a break. If I can get my guys to get things buttoned up tomorrow...I might go down to the flying club again Sunday and check out some folks.

I'm still looking...as I want to see what the guy that I can trick into working with me recommends. I figure if it's something that he/she knows, it will be easier to teach me stuff. From all the time on my sim, I think that I'm going to need some tips...I think that without knowing what you're doing...going alone is difficult.
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:21 PM   #23
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The HZ S Cub is a nice 3 ch trainer, lots of fun and very docile. When you are ready, you can add ailerons easily and even flatten the wing. Flat wings don't "fight" the ailerons like a dihedral wing does. It becomes a whole new plane that way AND you have spent very little to convert it. I flew a Champ a lot 1st, never did like simulators, then flew the S Cub. It is still 100% stock with no real crashes. Well, except one HARD landing that tore the gear and battery box out of it. Very easy fix with epoxy. I have flown it many, many times and it looks better than new with ailerons, flat wing, and a proper yellow paint job. Good starter and will remain one of your fliers for a long time.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by C-pher View Post
I don't want to spend a TON of money to get started as I'm sure I'm going to crash the thing even with practicing on the Sim. But I don't want to go cheap either as I would like to really learn what I'm supposed to do from the start. I had figured that I'm going to spend around 170-300 bucks for my first RTF plane.

Which is what I want to do, as I have to admit I'm a little nervous building one from scratch without really knowing anything about them. So, if I can do ARF or RTF pretty easily, then that's how I want to go.

But, where I'm really at is very confused on where to start with my first plane. As I don't know much, I really want to just make it as easy as I can and get a kit that pretty much has everything that I'll need.

I was willing to even do that with a nitro plane, but I don't see one that comes with the box, pump, glow thing, starter drill thing, all that stuff that I see these guys at the field show up with. So much stuff. That's why I want to start electric. It seems like there's kits that come with everything, I just would buy a few extra batteries so I can fly more than one time when I get to the field.

So, that's where I'm at...or at least think that's where I'm at. I really don't know anything more than what I've read. That's why I'm looking for any direction that I can get.

Thanks, and sorry if it was long winded.

C-pher
You can't go wrong with a Piper Cub type of highwing plane for your first RC model. Be sure to get ailerons, they make a real difference on flying. Also suggest you use a brushless motor, rather than a brush type motor popular 5-10 years ago.

At any rate, IMHO, start with a good radio, such as the Spektrum line DX6 series. Not cheap, but it will last a good while. And others have suggested the Cellpro 4S charger, another good recommendation.

As for power, my club members have been suggesting that these smaller models are best flown with electric power, smaller models on the order of a 60 inch wingspan or less. Electric power has no vibration issues, no fuel soaked model issues, no fuel dripping on your carpet, no $20 / gallon cost of fuel.

Electric power with GOOD equipment can outperform similar models with glow engines, the only drawback is shorter flying time. I've got a Showtime 50 model with a Hacker A50-16S motor, 16X12 prop, and a 7S2P (7 series, 2 parallel) A123 battery. This model will fly straight up out of sight.

For a little more info on medium sized electric models, take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

This is not what you'd start off with, but can give you a general indication on the potential of these electric models.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:05 PM   #25
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Here is one to consider as well. It is a Kit but real easy to build, from what I can tell. I have seen this in action, loves the wind flown in 10mph or more and can land in grass and/or roadway. Its wing has both ailerons and flaps but during the build you decide what you want 3 channel or more. I think I will buy one this spring myself so she will be ready for summer

http://www.rcplanet.com/Multiplex_Fu.../mpu214243.htm

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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