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Old 07-19-2011, 06:45 PM   #1
Bobmic
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Default 3 Gyros - installed on a plane

Have a question about setup:
I want to install 3 gyros in my plane and would like to be able to controll them from my Tx - at least turn them on or off.
Can I take all three gain wires that go to the Rx and connect them to one channel of the Rx. That way I have one sensitivity level for all three and can turn them on as rate , HH or off from one switch.
Or do I need to separate them to 3 different channels with different switches?
..Or maybe ditch the sensitivity wire and have a couple of them run in rate mode only but not sure if it will work.
I have a Futaba GY401 and on order a number of Hobby King 401B

Thank you
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:48 PM   #2
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If you are trying to super stabilize a plane, or to help in training/learning you might want to look at the Futaba PA-2 Pilot Assist Link Auto Pilot System. Very simple hookup.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/accessories/futm0999.html

I have one of these installed in my camera plane. you can adjust the gain from the transmitter, from - off - very mild- or rock solid locked to the horizons. I take off with it set at mild, them turn it up to high during a photo run.

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Old 07-19-2011, 08:47 PM   #3
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Hi Bob
Pleased to meet you
Its a long read but theres lots of good info here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1035605
Hope its of help to you
Take care
Yours Hank

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Old 07-19-2011, 08:48 PM   #4
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Thank you but this system is checking for the horizon while Gyros can work for wind and 3D
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bobmic View Post
Have a question about setup:
I want to install 3 gyros in my plane and would like to be able to controll them from my Tx - at least turn them on or off.
Can I take all three gain wires that go to the Rx and connect them to one channel of the Rx. That way I have one sensitivity level for all three and can turn them on as rate , HH or off from one switch.
Or do I need to separate them to 3 different channels with different switches?
..Or maybe ditch the sensitivity wire and have a couple of them run in rate mode only but not sure if it will work.
I have a Futaba GY401 and on order a number of Hobby King 401B

Thank you

You will need three separate servo switches to control them all.
I did this some time ago with a Helicopter, and was able to fly it around all day long with throttle and rudder only, it was amazing.

You would want three independant switches (channels), because they will ideally benefit from different percentages on different axis'.

You could get away with no switch on the rudder as that would help through taxi also

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Old 07-19-2011, 10:25 PM   #6
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Hi Nitro Balst,
When you say that I can go with no switch on the rudder does it mean that I will need to look for a servo that does not have a sensitivity input

Thank you
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bobmic View Post
Hi Nitro Balst,
When you say that I can go with no switch on the rudder does it mean that I will need to look for a servo that does not have a sensitivity input

Thank you
You lost me on "servo sensitivity input".

What I meant is that you dont necessarily have to have the rudder gyro 'switched'. It could be left on.

Servo sensitivity adjustment is called Expo (as in Exponential) and is done at the transmitter. Gyro sensitivity is usually controlled by a end point adjustment on the TX, where the channel is on a switch (or how far you would make the servo move if it was a servo). I have a gyro that when switched on a 3 position switch, one direction is one setting, and the other direction is another.

When you have a gyro 'hard wired' so to speak with no 'on/off' control, they normally have a mechanical adjustment pot for the micro screwdriver. You often set gain, and center mechanically at the gyro itself.

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Old 07-20-2011, 12:06 AM   #8
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Sorry the "Servo Sensitivity" was a typo - I meant Gyro Sensitivity, no wander I confused you
Currently have one Gyro that I setup yesterday and hope to try it in a short while which is on a 3 position switch similar to what you described.
The Gyros on order are all HH that have the additional connector to the Rx and as far as I know these type will require initialization with HH On before you can switch to Rate so I am not sure how this can work without connecting to a separate channel.
* On the Gyro I use and the HK401Bs ordered there is an adjustment for the travel and delay on the Gyro, the gain is from the Tx. I guess that other types maybe with no HH will have simpler settings.

Thx
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:26 AM   #9
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DO NOT, repeat DO NOT use a heading hold gyro on an aircraft flight control surface.
Heading hold (which is my belief you meant when you said HH) is to hold the rudder in place when the aircraft is NOT TRAVELING FORWARD.


Helicopters can fly sideways. Airplanes only fly one direction, forward.

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nitro Blast View Post
DO NOT, repeat DO NOT use a heading hold gyro on an aircraft flight control surface.
Heading hold (which is my belief you meant when you said HH) is to hold the rudder in place when the aircraft is NOT TRAVELING FORWARD.


Helicopters can fly sideways. Airplanes only fly one direction, forward.
Nitro,
Not to dispute your statement above but I've read in several places where they're having good results using a HH gyro on the rudder of planes on take off's & landings. The claim is it'll tame hard to handle planes on the ground to the point you won't need to worry about keeping the plane tracking straight down the runway on take off/landing, even in a stiff cross wind. The gyro needs to be on a switch so that once airborne it needs to be turned off for normal flight. I have a couple of planes that I'm seriously thinking of trying the use of a gyro on. Also read about using the rudder gyro in a fairly recent issue of MA. I'll see if I can find the article & post it.

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:42 PM   #11
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SJ, thanks for the reply.
I'll not say that the Wattflyer forum has not taught me a trick or thousand, and you may be right.

BUT... For limited use (switched on or off for T/O, or landing) I dont see where a heading hold gyro is any better than a regular gyro on the rudder. If the course is set to go down the centerline of the runway, a properly adjusted standard non HH gyro will hold that line just as well (because the aircraft is not going sideways) as one where the heading is locked....right?

I'd love to read those articles and possibly learn something new, but having a switched 'lock' on the gyro sounds like a source for trouble, that isnt necessarily a huge advantage.

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:49 PM   #12
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SJ, thanks for the reply.
I'll not say that the Wattflyer forum has not taught me a trick or thousand, and you may be right.

BUT... For limited use (switched on or off for T/O, or landing), I dont see where a heading hold gyro is any better than a regular gyro on the rudder. If the course is set to go down the centerline of the runway, a properly adjusted standard non HH gyro will hold that line just as well as one where the heading is locked....right?

I'd love to read those articles and possibly learn something new, but having a switched 'lock' on the gyro sounds like a source for trouble, that isnt necessarily a huge advantage.

Unknowingly bump that switch in flight and watch it spiral in as the rudder gets locked into a turn...

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Old 07-20-2011, 05:02 PM   #13
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Talking Time consuming search

I'm still searching thru my back issues of MA trying to find the article. You may be right also on which type of gyro used and I agree about bumping the switch for the gyro. Still my thinking is it could be a big help on some planes on the runway. Guess a pilot would have to mentally train himself to look at that switch if his plane suddenly started spiraling in
I'll post which issue & the article as soon as I can find it but there's some things in those back issues that just require looking at or reading again you know

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Old 07-20-2011, 05:57 PM   #14
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info Found it

In the Dec. 2010 issue of MA, starting on pg. 55 is an article titled "Improve Your Approach" written by Ben Lanterman. The gyros he used for his fairly large amount of test models were HH types. The article deals with set ups also and is mostly concerned with take offs. Hopefully the article can also be found online. I also recall seeing a thread on that other big forum site not related to us WF members

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Slowjohn View Post
In the Dec. 2010 issue of MA, starting on pg. 55 is an article titled "Improve Your Approach" written by Ben Lanterman. The gyros he used for his fairly large amount of test models were HH types. The article deals with set ups also and is mostly concerned with take offs. Hopefully the article can also be found online. I also recall seeing a thread on that other big forum site not related to us WF members

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Hi John
Couldnt find the article online, but i did find this written by said author
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=376
Take care dear friend
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by kenchiroalpha View Post
Hi John
Couldnt find the article online, but i did find this written by said author
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=376
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank
Thanks Hank,
I think that's the thread I saw quite awhile back but then again I've slept once or thrice since then
I myself would only consider using a gyro on the rudder with certain models that are hard to control on take off. Since I'm not into video or taking photos from a flying model I can't say whether using gyros on the other control surfaces would be beneficial or not.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:22 AM   #17
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You can check the video bellow from YouTube

Flight Test with a Heading Hold Gyro.dv

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Old 07-21-2011, 04:56 AM   #18
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Im kind of with nitro on the HH issue but not all the way.

Planes can be made to fly just fine with the gyros set to HH mode OR rate mode.

How well HH or rate mode works for you will depend at least in part of the gain settings AND what you are expecting.

In the first place - gyros - in HH or rate mode - do not make a plane more self correcting. They will tend to keep a plane from getting bumped into a bad attitude, BUT if you put it in a bad attitude or it gets bumped hard enough - the gyro actually hurts you instead of helping.

The one major disadvantage of HH mode on a plane is what nitro mentioned - heli's can fly sideways and skewed at bizarre attitudes that would cause a plane to fall out of the sky.

Here is one situation to be careful of when in HH mode.

Let say that for what ever reason - dumb thumbs or a severe gust or what ever - the plane gets into a side slip attitude with one wing down, the tail off to the side and the nose way up. No way will it stay in the air in that attitude.

Any normal plane will tend to self correct all those problems if you just let go of the sticks for a second. At the very least, the yaw to the side will correct quickly even if you have the other controls set pretty neutral.

With a gyro in HH mode on, hi gain especially, the plane will STAY in that bad attitude until it crashes or until YOU make exactly the right corrections - with NO help from the planes normal built in stability.

There will be no self recovery.

You loose all the planes built in self correction.

A more subtle problem can occur if you just misjudge the flight attitude a little bit. You give the model a little rudder correction in a turn but your late getting off the rudder stick. As you come out of that turn, the plane will STAY YAWED to one side and will NOT correct itself. from that point until you see the problem, you will be flying with a side slip. That can easily be bad enough to cause you to stall much at a much higher air speed than normal.

An even worse problem also occurs - if you DON'T do perfectly coordinated turns - with just the exact correct amount of rudder input each time, the plane will always exit a turn in a side slip.

Thats just as bad.

In other words - the gyro on rudder will force you to use rudder perfectly - or else.

The same thing applies to aileron and elevator. You give a little UP and the model STAYS nose up. You give a litle right aileron and it STAYS banked to the right.

If you set up your gyros so they work TOO WELL, it can cause major problems.

You tend to have fewer of those issues in rate mode.

At the same time, rate mode will not keep the plane a solidly locked in in gusty conditions.

The key is being aware of how the gyro works and what it can and cant do for the plane.

Gyros will help keep the model more locked in as far as attitude - but that's not the same as more stable and may be more dangerous than beneficial.

Thats one of the reasons you dont see this done a lot more than it is.

I think I need a signature.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:04 AM   #19
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I am using a GY48V in a Durafly Spitfire rudder in HH mode on takeoffs. Works fine and I switch it off after takeoff. Holds the takeoff heading. This is a dual rate gyro so it has both HH mode and rate mode. I have it set on the 3 position flap switch on a DX7. 0 is off, 1 rate (rate is set very low) and 2 is HH model. I have not tried in on approaches yet both I expect it would help on crosswind landings some. I have no need for the rate mode as the plane is very stable and easy to fly. Only the takeoffs are a little issue with torque to the left and nose over issues if not handled right. The gyro by taking care of the rudder heading in reaction to the throttle reduces the workload during take off.
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