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Old 07-19-2011, 09:43 PM   #1
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Default Canadair CL-415 Water Bomber (Guan Li)

I just picked up one of these from the HobbyKing USA warehouse. They delivered it to my doorstep in perfect condition less than 48 hours after ordering it!

The hardware, on the other hand, was not in stock locally, so it's on a slow boat from Hong Kong

The quality of this kit is really nice - much better than I expected from a Guan Li kit! Foam is EPS, but it is nice and dense with a good paint job. It came with all control surfaces installed with decent hinges, pushrods, props (not going to use) and servo extensions (a nice surprise!).

It's pretty big (55" WS) but light enough to fly with just a couple of small outrunners. I've got a pair of 200 watt HK 2824 outrunners with 20 amp HK ESC's on the way.

This will be a great kit for adding detail to! I plan to install flaps and program differential thrust for water steering, and of course add some cosmetic inprovements.

I will also attempt to build a scoop and dump system for putting out very small fires This plane has such a huge wing that I believe it can carry a lightly built tank system and at least 12 oz of water. Looking at some similar systems built for larger RC versions of this plane, I have a pretty good idea of how to do it. Or at least I have an idea of how it will look and operate, but actually building it will of course be the challenge. But that is why we love this hobby, right?


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Old 07-19-2011, 09:51 PM   #2
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Hi Doug
Congratulations she looks great
Ive been eyeballing that one for a while now
Looking forward to your findings
The water drop idea sounds fascinating
Best of luck with the maiden
Take care
Yours hank

"When wild the head-wind beat,Thy sovereign Will commanding, Bring them who dare to fly, To a safe landing."
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:04 PM   #3
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Yep, probably best to fly it some before installing the water tank

My plan is to have a tank that is completely removable from the fuselage. Fine tuning the design and maintining it will be much easier that way. Plus if it just plain does not work I can remove it with ease.

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Old 07-19-2011, 10:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
Yep, probably best to fly it some before installing the water tank

My plan is to have a tank that is completely removable from the fuselage. Fine tuning the design and maintining it will be much easier that way. Plus if it just plain does not work I can remove it with ease.
Hi Doug
Sounds like a good plan
I think the biggest issue will be the getting the CG right
As it will be different and change as the water tank drains from full to empty
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by kenchiroalpha View Post
Hi Doug
Sounds like a good plan
I think the biggest issue will be the getting the CG right
As it will be different and change as the water tank drains from full to empty
Take care
Yours Hank
That is another great reason to fly it first! I need to figure out exactly where the best CG is before loading up with water. Carrying just 12 oz of water will be like flying with an extra pair of 2200 mAh lipos. The tank is going to have to be centered exactly on the CG otherwise it may simply not fly.

The water scoop system will be the trickiest part. The full scale 415 has the scoops right behind the step, and I plan to do the same because I'm pretty sure that feature has been thought through very thorougly by a bunch of engineers who are collectively a lot smarter than me! Because water is so heavy, the tank is not filled until the plane is on step, so it has significant forward momentum when the scoops are lowered. I am going to build mine from square CF tube. They will push straight down from the fuselage with the help of a 5 or 9 gram servo.

The dump system will work just like a toilet. There will be a soft rubber suction cup (like you would use to hold something to a shower wall) covering a hole in the bottom of the tank that will be raised by a second servo located on the top of the tank. The weight of the water will keep it closed tight, and since there is an opening below the suction cup, it should not take much to lift it.

I will also need a pair of doors opening on the bottom of the fuselage to allow the water to exit. I will acuate them with the same servo that pulls the suction cup up.

If I build the tank out of depron, I think it will only weigh 100 grams or so.

Here's a video of a guy having WAY too much fun with his much larger RC CL-215 (radial engined version of the 415). Note how he does not fill the tank until after taking off. I'm guessing it would be much harder, if not impossible, to get on step with a full tank.


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Old 07-19-2011, 11:28 PM   #6
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Actually, I meant to post this video instead. Same plane and same location I think, but more water drop runs.


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Old 07-21-2011, 12:51 AM   #7
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I've been sketching out my water tank design and ordering materials to build it. I know this can be done! 3mm depron for the tank itself and a 8mm square carbon fiber tube for the scoops are on the way. I tried to buy this stuff at the LHS but they don't carry it. Oh well, I did pick up a couple of 3-bladed prop spinners and some CF strips that will both go into this plane.

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Old 07-21-2011, 11:03 AM   #8
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Subscribed that was a neet video, Good luck to you on your fill and dump system, I know you can do it Take Care and have fun, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:30 AM   #9
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Some neet ideas here that might be of some help, Take care, Chellie






http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_97...tm.htm#9841408

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Old 07-21-2011, 01:32 PM   #10
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Gotta run , but cool plane and a great idea! Don't forget vents that dump overboard at the top of the tank!
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:52 PM   #11
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Those tank systems are kind of heavy looking! Obviously they were designed for a big gasser

I'm going to build mine light (no choice, really). The scoop system in video #2 is very similar to what I have in mind, though I'll be using carbon fiber tubes instead of metal.

The drop system in mine will be a lot different. I am not even going to try to make the external doors water tight, but instead will have a drain valve on the inside of the tank that will be. It will work just like a toilet. The external doors will just swing open as the internal valve releases the water. As xmech2 suggests, there will be an air and overflow vent at the top so that the tank will drain quickly.

I will have to seal off the area where the doors are so the hull does not flood. Some flooding of the area between the doors and the bottom of the tank should be fine, but even just a little water sloshing around in the hull could cause the plane to be uncontrollably tail heavy as soon as I pull the nose up

Here's an old thread from RCG where some guys were brainstorming about how to build a tank for this very aircraft. Post #10 is closest to what I will build.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933794

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Old 07-21-2011, 09:52 PM   #12
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Here's a link to some detail pics of the full scale 415's drop doors and scoops. Think I will just do two doors. Too many moving parts otherwise!

http://www.oognok.ca/415/415.shtml

Wow, I am totally obsessing on this thing!

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Old 07-21-2011, 10:36 PM   #13
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I think one big hurdle will be how big to make the scoops. For the full scale plane, it has a lot of mass and momentum to keep it from getting all messed up in the scooping process. On a small foamy, I imagine it would be easy to accidentally create a super-water-brake which will just grab and flip your plane over the instant it touches the water, instead of a scoop. It's a fine line...
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:58 PM   #14
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Yeah, there is plenty to consider alright! The scoops need to be big enough to fill the tank in one pass but not so big that they kill forward momentum. Locating the scoops behind the step is important too I think. That will allow the entire foresection of the hull to act as a lever against a front flip.

I do love the engineering challenge of this project!

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Old 07-25-2011, 11:38 PM   #15
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Got my 3 mm depron and square carbon fiber tube today. The Post Office mangled it though. CF was split about 1/4 of the length and the depron has a crease and a tear near one of the edges I think I have enough undamaged material to build from, so I don't think I'll bother returning it.

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Old 08-02-2011, 07:33 PM   #16
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I finally have just about everything I'll need to put this one together. My order for motors, ESC's, servos, etc. from HobbyKing took a really long time to get here. About 2 1/2 weeks! It may have taken longer because I added a couple of lipo batteries to the order. I actually forgot to order an Rx so placed a second order for that a day later, and it arrived in less than half the time

I plan to glass the bottom of the hull and of course add the water drop tank, but first I am going to get her flying. I will probably go ahead and do the flap mod before the first flight. From everything I've read on this plane, the flaps are hardly needed, but I have never regretted adding them to any of my other planes. Flaps definately add a lot to the coolness factor

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Old 08-03-2011, 12:38 AM   #17
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Happy to see another seaplane build, there are alot of guys talking about seaplanes but very few building them on all sites. Iam sighned up . joe
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
I just picked up one of these from the HobbyKing USA warehouse. They delivered it to my doorstep in perfect condition less than 48 hours after ordering it!

The hardware, on the other hand, was not in stock locally, so it's on a slow boat from Hong Kong

The quality of this kit is really nice - much better than I expected from a Guan Li kit! Foam is EPS, but it is nice and dense with a good paint job. It came with all control surfaces installed with decent hinges, pushrods, props (not going to use) and servo extensions (a nice surprise!).

It's pretty big (55" WS) but light enough to fly with just a couple of small outrunners. I've got a pair of 200 watt HK 2824 outrunners with 20 amp HK ESC's on the way.

This will be a great kit for adding detail to! I plan to install flaps and program differential thrust for water steering, and of course add some cosmetic inprovements.

I will also attempt to build a scoop and dump system for putting out very small fires This plane has such a huge wing that I believe it can carry a lightly built tank system and at least 12 oz of water. Looking at some similar systems built for larger RC versions of this plane, I have a pretty good idea of how to do it. Or at least I have an idea of how it will look and operate, but actually building it will of course be the challenge. But that is why we love this hobby, right?
Hey Flytime... I just ordered one of these and had a few questions for you if you don't mind?

I know it comes with 8x3.8SF props, but of course I want to use the 3-Blade props instead... Would the 8x4 work (clear the fuse) or should i stick to the 7x3.5???

Jeff from Heads up recommended the CF2812 motor but I wanted to see if i can step up to the CF2822 if the 8x4 props will fit. He also recommended the 3S 2200mAh 35C battery but i am curious as to what your using.

I have no interest in a water dump system of course (don't have the guts you do...lol), I just want to do some scale flying but want ample power to fly in moderate winds (5-10mph).

Note: I will most likely be doing more grass takeoffs and landing than on water.

any help from you or anyone else would be much appreciated

-John

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Old 08-12-2011, 07:41 PM   #19
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Another question... this is my 1st twin prop build...

I know i need to reverse the polarity on one motor so it spins counter to the other but do i need to get one "reverse rotation" prop as well or do i simply flip the prop over on the other motor?

Anyone?

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Old 08-13-2011, 12:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jap71173 View Post
Another question... this is my 1st twin prop build...

I know i need to reverse the polarity on one motor so it spins counter to the other but do i need to get one "reverse rotation" prop as well or do i simply flip the prop over on the other motor?

Anyone?
There is no need to reverse one of the motors, it wont affect prop torque that much to have both motors running in the same direction, but it looks cool to have both motors running in opposite directions, yes you will need a reverse prop to have motors running in opposite directions. Take care and have fun, Chellie

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Old 08-13-2011, 12:44 AM   #21
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I've done twins both way's,, When both turn the same way it act's pretty much just like a single (little right rudder on take-off), With the counter Rotate'in one's I have to remind myself not to expect a yaw to the right,,Like Ms Chille said,,,they fly great with either set-up,,,bubsteve


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Old 08-13-2011, 05:33 AM   #22
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Ohhh, sweet... thx ...

that take the pressure off... I already had my hands full with proper wiring for using two esc's and a seperate ubec... but Jeff from headsuprc explained it very well and i'll post a picture here of the setup before i actually install it just to make sure i got it right

So, i think i wll just make the spin the same way then,,, sounds much easier


Thx again

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Old 08-19-2011, 06:51 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
There is no need to reverse one of the motors, it wont affect prop torque that much to have both motors running in the same direction, but it looks cool to have both motors running in opposite directions, yes you will need a reverse prop to have motors running in opposite directions. Take care and have fun, Chellie
Originally Posted by jap71173 View Post
Ohhh, sweet... thx ...

that take the pressure off... I already had my hands full with proper wiring for using two esc's and a seperate ubec... but Jeff from headsuprc explained it very well and i'll post a picture here of the setup before i actually install it just to make sure i got it right

So, i think i wll just make the spin the same way then,,, sounds much easier


Thx again

OK, I said i would post a picture of the setup before i actually install it... just in case anyone spots something i'm doing wrong...

I think i've got it pretty much down with the help of Jeff @ Headsuprc... but i'm debating where to solder the BEC power-in wires. Should i open up the connection at the battery t-plug and solder it there? or just tap into the +/- wire a few inches down on one side?

Curiosity question: Could i power the BEC with a small 2nd battery? And if yes, the what should be my minimum mAh/voltage?


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Old 08-19-2011, 07:50 AM   #24
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Never mind... i just made my own lightning tap

Just gotta find some big enough heat shrink... or maybe some liquid electric tape may work.


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Old 08-19-2011, 12:16 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jap71173 View Post
Never mind... i just made my own lightning tap

Just gotta find some big enough heat shrink... or maybe some liquid electric tape may work.
That will work I just nornally solder the UBEC wires on the ESC plug or just a little below the ESC plug like you have in the picture, Take care and have fun, Chellie

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