Canadair CL-415 Water Bomber (Guan Li)

[inthrustwetrust]

Here is how i did it - by 4 mixes:

1. Receiver plugging: Motor R -> Throt / motor L -> Ax1
2. Do NOT use "dual aileron" -> use "normal" wing config

Mix1: Ax1 -> Ax1 (mixing out the axi / flap switch)
Rate: -100% / -100%
Offset: -100%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> on

Mix2: Thr -> Ax1
Rate: +100% / -100%
Offset: -100%
Trim -> act (you can trim L-motor by "subtrim menue" to equal rev as R-motor)
Sw -> on

Mix3: Rud -> Thr
Rate: +25% / 0%
Offset: 0%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> FM1 *

Mix4: Rud -> Ax1
Rate: 0% / -25%
Offset: 0%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> FM1 *

* flightmode 1 => for water taxiing motors run up to 25% at 100% rudder
** flightmod "0" => both motors run "coupled"

(Rates + and - in mix 3 & 4 depend on your rudder servo direction)

Tipss from other forums - as I executed it:

1.Tipp: Put 60% Exp on rudder.
2.Tipp: For better seakeeping in small waves, shorten the struts of the swimmers and "angle them up" -> measured below wing to downside of swimmer, at swimmer step = 90mm / at frontside of strut = approx. 80mm (= approx. 10°).
3. Tipp: Glas the botom sides with 48g/m2 glasfiber rowing by using parquet & wood stairs poliurethane laquer (get it in your local DIY market), this is much easier and cheaper than epoxy.

...taxi in fm1 to your take off position, switch to fm0 - and have straight fun.

cherio inthrustwetrust

[inthrustwetrust]

...can anybody give me a value - 10% rud on ail ok?

cherio inthrustwetrust

[jap71173]

lol... sorry this all looks like Japanese to me... i just install electronics, plug in battery and press up on the throttle stick... never had any problems on water or land with mine.

Originally Posted by inthrustwetrust

Here is how i did it - by 4 mixes:

1. Receiver plugging: Motor R -> Throt / motor L -> Ax1
2. Do NOT use "dual aileron" -> use "normal" wing config

Mix1: Ax1 -> Ax1 (mixing out the axi / flap switch)
Rate: -100% / -100%
Offset: -100%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> on

Mix2: Thr -> Ax1
Rate: +100% / -100%
Offset: -100%
Trim -> act (you can trim L-motor by "subtrim menue" to equal rev as R-motor)
Sw -> on

Mix3: Rud -> Thr
Rate: +25% / 0%
Offset: 0%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> FM1 *

Mix4: Rud -> Ax1
Rate: 0% / -25%
Offset: 0%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> FM1 *

* flightmode 1 => for water taxiing motors run up to 25% at 100% rudder
** flightmod "0" => both motors run "coupled"

(Rates + and - in mix 3 & 4 depend on your rudder servo direction)

Tipss from other forums - as I executed it:

1.Tipp: Put 60% Exp on rudder.
2.Tipp: For better seakeeping in small waves, shorten the struts of the swimmers and "angle them up" -> measured below wing to downside of swimmer, at swimmer step = 90mm / at frontside of strut = approx. 80mm (= approx. 10°).
3. Tipp: Glas the botom sides with 48g/m2 glasfiber rowing by using parquet & wood stairs poliurethane laquer (get it in your local DIY market), this is much easier and cheaper than epoxy.

...taxi in fm1 to your take off position, switch to fm0 - and have straight fun.

cherio inthrustwetrust

[inthrustwetrust]

Originally Posted by jap71173

lol... sorry this all looks like Japanese to me... i just install electronics, plug in battery and press up on the throttle stick... never had any problems on water or land with mine.

He man - great man!

[inthrustwetrust]

...ok, for those who have fun in rather more sophisticated solutions... by the way this one solves the problem that *jap71173* had ....

-> no probs with unparalleled initiation of the two ESC (...thats for you *jap71173)
-> "motor kill switch" - this one`s cool for two reasons:
1. Safety - system powered you can safe work around the electronics / the hatch (which is very close to the props).
2. Initializing the bind (switch on by Lipo pluging into plane), you do it with "motor kill switch" at the remote on "motor off position".
System binds clean, you can now check servos (ore do adjust work safely w. o. accidentally rots props).
Now you can add the motors by switching on the "kill switch" - motors initiate at the same second...

So here is how to:
To my above 4 mixes please ad as follows:

Mix5: Thr -> Ax1
Rate: -115% / 0%
Offset: -100%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> Gear1

(in my case I used "Gear1" as "motor kill switch" ...due for electric motors u need a real "switch" and not a "momentary switch button" as for nitros)

Mix6: Rud -> Ax1
Rate: -25% / + 50%
Offset: 25%
Trim -> inh
Sw -> Gear1 (must be put on same switch as mix 5).


So, if there is anybody who can give me a simpler solution including all above, I`d be happy to LEARN

...learning - by the way, I had once a girl on Kauai (in my younger years) ...I have learned a lot from her...


cherio inthrustwetrust

[Fly Time]

I've been away from this thread for awhile. And for that matter, I've been away from the CL-415 for awhile too. My last flight was last fall, ending in a crash into the water

I believe one of the ESC's went into low voltage cutoff causing the plane to pitch hard into the slowing motor. I was only a few feet off the water, so there was no time to react. I was on my third flight of the day, using one of my older batteries. I took off nice and scale, and then advanced the throttle for a strong climb out. That is when the voltage sagged and one of the ESC's went into soft shutdown mode.

Damage was fairly minor but I just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet.

Lessons learned:

1) do not fly twins with an old battery
2) for twins, disable low-voltage cutoff on the ESC's and use a flight timer to gauge how long it is safe to fly

[inthrustwetrust]

All are talking about motor, prop etcetc - thought a input about a water drop / scoop system would fresh up the wonderfull CL-415 topic:

- ATTENTION: before fixing the rear bulkhead finally, fix it by tape -> fill up with water, check ot CG (with battery in usual position) !!!
- CG must be at equal position -> with / wtithout water !!!
- Pressure tubes outlet in the middle of the tank, almost up at acryl glas top plate (avoids as far as possible drippin due climb / descent flying).
- dropping system demountable for service. consisting of head of plastic mineral water bottle and badminton ball head (changable - if tear and wear).
- bulkheads made of PU foam
- top plate made of something like acrylic glas (in case "hobby glas"->"gutia gliss" ...whatever this is. easy to work on). top plate devided and glued in the middle due in total not mountable.
- everithing glued in several steps with regular 2hrs epoxy (ATTENTION: be very carefull that outlet is seale by tape whilst epoxying and no epoxycomes into the pressure tubes
- small overflow tube will beinstalled to plane top (air vent / visually seeing full tank when sprinkling)
- pressure tubes made of carbon inner dia 8mm, angle appr. 35° -> tested and works quite fine at allready very low speed.

Before I started, I made several test flights putting step wise up to 750g steel bars into the plane.
It worked quite well, due more drought note that the struts of the swimmers at the wings should be shortened. I had mine shortened right from the beginning by 15mm, works anyway better.

[quorneng]

Inthrustwetrust

Very neat.

Of course the full size pick up at virtually flying speed so they don't have to 'get on the step' at full weight.

[road king 97]

I fly mine with no bec and use a extra battery pack for my servos and reciever .I dont use counter rotating props or steer my plane with the motors in the air or on water ,just a water rudder. I have been watching this thread for a while now and i hope you get the bugs worked out ,flying off of water has been very fun for me in the last 10 years . We need more rc guys flying off of water . One of my best seaplane sites http://www.seawings.co.uk/

[inthrustwetrust]

I tested water rudder few times - in even little windy conditions the plane was not to handle.
As well I often fly the the canadair in our near by park (people love the very low passes :-) )... and I land it on grass. With the differential programming I can do very scale light "driving" on airfield - turns and everithing. With filled water tank (I tried this with steelm weight of 750g) - the plane needs plenty of turning power, due it has more drought. rudder never would work dough.
Only bug I found is that wing attachement points where to brittle for my plans (watertank) - I restrengthened the wing fixation on top by well sized "big" plywood plates, my Canadair has no wing struts but two of dia. 5mm/1100mm carbon tubes at CG and 50mm behind in the wings. So I can even do loopings (...well this things not realy intended too... *G*). CTestflight with 750g steel showed it makes sense.

[inthrustwetrust]

Hi CL-415 pilots,

I got my tank ready now - in 2nd attempt...
The challenge is to really get the two CGs (and intermediate CGs) together.
My "empty" CG (regular CG) is right in the middle of the square venting hole (appr. 5mm behind the original strengthening spar in the wing).

The "filled" CG - and of course all intermediate tank filling levels should be
right at the (close to) same point.

In my case the "filled" CG is little, very little(!!!) tail heavy (but almost neutral), this should make droughting at water pick-up easyer and then take off with the nose very little (2-5°) up in the water is "on neutral sticks" mainly achieved by throttle / speed.

After testflights with full tank (on snowy ground), I decided to bring "empty" CG bit to "nose heavy" (but only very little again). The advantage is at emptying the tank, the plane does less stall up (at medium speed - at full throttle there is almost no difference).

As well I had to (unplanned) cut down the v-shape bottom from the plane at almost tank length to install two intermediate bulkheads (small opening at lowest and highest point), they do reduced longitudinal roll (water moving).
I was thinking of installing a gyro on elev - but did not yet.

Better sketch with exact measures and video will come.

[inthrustwetrust]

Building such a system again, I would go another way (due might be easyer) building a "loose tank":

1) I would cut of the v-shape bottom (cuts at planes side shells) a bit bigger than tank.

2) I would build a loose tank (as above appropriate to have low vertical CG).
Loose tank including pressure pipes, and drop mechanisem.

3) I would try out getting the CGs together (filled / empty) by moving tank fore / aft.

4) I would epoxy tank to v-shape bottom part (at determined CG position),
epoxy sealing the openings for the drop valve / pressure pipes.

5) Glue the cut off v-shape bottom incl. the tank to the plane.