Nwbie, Moveup from blade 120 to trex 550?

[flynlow]

Just wanted some expert advice. Just learning to fly the Blade 120 sr fixed pitch. I feel in my bones I will soon grow board with it and most importantly, here in Minnesota we rarely have calm days. I can afford a bigger heli. What do you experts think of a leap from blade 120 to Trex 550? I'm hoping not to collect too many helis. Your insight greatly appreciated. This goes with out saying I would only master the blade 120 sr first.

[jap71173]

Originally Posted by flynlow

Just wanted some expert advice. Just learning to fly the Blade 120 sr fixed pitch. I feel in my bones I will soon grow board with it and most importantly, here in Minnesota we rarely have calm days. I can afford a bigger heli. What do you experts think of a leap from blade 120 to Trex 550? I'm hoping not to collect too many helis. Your insight greatly appreciated. This goes with out saying I would only master the blade 120 sr first.

Hey flynlow... First, welcome to Wattflyer

Second... the Blade 120SR is an easy Heli to fly. In fact i would say it's easier than the Blade mSR. I did heli's for a while and got bored so I moved on to planes, but that was just becasue i like to build things with my hands and there is not much room for error with Heli's.

Anyway, to answer your question... I would say a step up (or in the right direction) would be the Blade mCP... if your going to move up to collective pitch, you should learn on something like this which is less expensive to fix and chances are won't break as easy. Also, the mCP has no problem outside in light wind (5-10mph). Once you have the mCP mastered, then your ready for the bigger more aggresive heli's with little or no problems. Hope that helps.

- John

[flynlow]

Thanks John. Again I'm new but a breath of wind takes the blade 120 sr across the street. The blade mcp is still only ounces. Why would this not happen again. I'm trying not to spend too much on step up helis. The Trex 500 for example is 3+ lbs. At least I can hover and learn. I do appreciate your recomendations and I'd like to hear your reply. I just can't fly outside in the Norther Plains one out of ten days. My style is conservative. A heavier heli might see very slow experimentation as I grow comfortable. Please enlighten me further.

[zeta30]

I respectfully disagree with John. If you can afford a 550 class heli then I would move up to that. The reason why is something that you already mentioned in your first post. You will probably outgrow a 120 very quickly and get bored with it. You aren't going to learn a whole lot with the 120 either because flying a collective pitch heli is a lot different than a fixed pitch.

I wish that I would have been able to afford to learn on a 550 but my funds were tight so I went with a 450 instead. The 550 will handle the winds that you mention with out a problem as well.

One thing that you did not mention though is whether or not you have a simulator. A sim is not an option but a must have. They will help you progress so much faster than not having one.

[jap71173]

Originally Posted by flynlow

Thanks John. Again I'm new but a breath of wind takes the blade 120 sr across the street. The blade mcp is still only ounces. Why would this not happen again. I'm trying not to spend too much on step up helis. The Trex 500 for example is 3+ lbs. At least I can hover and learn. I do appreciate your recomendations and I'd like to hear your reply. I just can't fly outside in the Norther Plains one out of ten days. My style is conservative. A heavier heli might see very slow experimentation as I grow comfortable. Please enlighten me further.

Originally Posted by zeta30

I respectfully disagree with John. If you can afford a 550 class heli then I would move up to that. The reason why is something that you already mentioned in your first post. You will probably outgrow a 120 very quickly and get bored with it. You aren't going to learn a whole lot with the 120 either because flying a collective pitch heli is a lot different than a fixed pitch.

I wish that I would have been able to afford to learn on a 550 but my funds were tight so I went with a 450 instead. The 550 will handle the winds that you mention with out a problem as well.

One thing that you did not mention though is whether or not you have a simulator. A sim is not an option but a must have. They will help you progress so much faster than not having one.

Flynlow... If you jump on youtube, you can see a few good videos of the mCP flying on very windy days without a problem. The collective pitch of this tiny heli is more than enough to keep it stable. HOWEVER... I will add this... I am only giving you a personal opinion on what "I" would do if I choose to progress in my heli experience. The main reason being "cost"... if i'm going to learn something, i'm going to do it as practical as possible. You most likely will crash a few times, and doing so on a 550 will cost you more. If you don't mind the costly repairs then yes, the 550 is the better option. I'm just looking out for your wallet as you learn to fly collective pitch because as zeta30 mention... it is a completley different world than fixed pitch. Don't let the weight and size of the mCP fool you, I flew a 120SR for a while till i realized it was the "fixed pitch" that prevented me from flying in the slightest breeze, not the size or weight.

That said, YES, the 550 will give you even more stability in the wind, but at a higher price!

[twoslick2]

Hey Jap 71173 I have been following this thread and now I am wondering what you meant when you said " the fixed pitch kept you from flying in the slightest breeze" I have a 120 myself and it doesn't seem to do very well in the wind.

[flynlow]

Zeta 30; a question for you. How have you found your 450 heli in light to moderate wind. I've realized the total out the door cost of Blade 550 is too much though I like the weight (6.5 lbs). And now that you have your 450 class ( about 1 1/2 lbs?), would you buy it again or have you found one later that you like better? Again, I very patient and have too much time, so learning slowly with this class is fine with me. And yes, thankfully I Sim alot on Phoenix and did so before even trying to fly the blade 120.

Thanks to all who offered their opinion. It was very kind!

[flynlow]

P.S. This may seem dumb, but this is my first message board experience. Not sure how to reply properly. Did not see a help section. Anyone care to give advise or direct me to help, I'll pay for your time. (Smiley face)

[kenchiroalpha]

Hi
Welcome aboard
Pleased to meet you
larger is better when it comes to RC Helis
They are more stable
Heres more advice
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62990
Take care
Yours Hank

[zeta30]

Originally Posted by flynlow

Zeta 30; a question for you. How have you found your 450 heli in light to moderate wind. I've realized the total out the door cost of Blade 550 is too much though I like the weight (6.5 lbs). And now that you have your 450 class ( about 1 1/2 lbs?), would you buy it again or have you found one later that you like better? Again, I very patient and have too much time, so learning slowly with this class is fine with me. And yes, thankfully I Sim alot on Phoenix and did so before even trying to fly the blade 120.

Thanks to all who offered their opinion. It was very kind!

The 450 is not something I would have liked to fly in moderate winds when I was still beginning. I can now fly it with out a problem in the wind.

My short history with heli's is this:

Started with a Blade CX2, got bored with it after 3 weeks as they are too easy to fly.
Bought a used HeliMax MX450, I knew nothing about CCPM heli's and totalled it the second flight.
Bought a Sim and practiced, then bought a CopterX 450 SE. The CopterX is one of the first Trex clones and their quality in my opinion is just as good. Ehirobo's customer service is better than Align's as well.

Once I got comfortable with learning circuits I sold the 450 SE and bought a CopterX Black Angel. I really like that one.

I now have 4 helis:

Gaui 255
CopterX 450 Black Angel
Gaui 550 (I think the Gaui line is the best bang for the buck)
Miniature Aircraft Furion 6

I've also owned a couple of different Trex lines 250, 450 Pro.

So this is a long winded answer to your question of if I had it to do over again what would I buy? If I still had limited funds like I had getting in to the hobby I would go with a CopterX 450 SE or Pro. They are inexpensive and the quality is top notch, and like I said above Ehirobo's customer service is very good. You can find Ehirobo posting and giving advice on the message boards, most manufacturers and distributors do not do this.

[molokaiboy]

There are many different approaches to tackle the progression of helis. And I would say everyones progression will be different. I would say get the largest heli that you can afford to repair. Larger helis are easier to fly IMHO, and I believe many others would agree.

I started off with a FP Sabre 4 ch electric heli, then has a Walkera off eBay, CP Pro, then finally broke down and bought a Raptor Titan. Man did that make a difference. My flying actually looked like flying and not a fish flailing around like it was dying. It was more stable, and more visible as it got farther from me so I didn't panic as it moved away from me. All of a sudden I found flying more fun. I wasn't always crashing uncontrollably because of the twitchiness of the smaller heli.

I only crashed that Raptor once in a year while I was learning. And it was because my gyro came loose in flight as I was entering a stall turn. Heli started pirouetting uncontrollably, managed to get it upright, hit TH and it landed on the roof of a building, slid down landed on the head and thats what caused most of my damages.

If the cost of the 550 is a little more than you'd like to spend. There are always 500's. I have an EXI500 and it flies really well. It is stable enough that I use it to buddy box a friend of mine. Price is cheap, parts are readily available, and its not too small and can handle some wind. Don't forget that a heli can be set up to be as mild as you want it, or as wild as you want it. So a 500 size heli may be a good starting point.

Are there anyone in your area that can help you? That is also a good way to figure out what heli you may want to get.

Aloha,
Les

If you got any questions feel free to ask, if I can answer it I will, if not I can point you in the direction to get the right answer.

[jap71173]

Originally Posted by zeta30

The 450 is not something I would have liked to fly in moderate winds when I was still beginning. I can now fly it with out a problem in the wind.

My short history with heli's is this:

Started with a Blade CX2, got bored with it after 3 weeks as they are too easy to fly.
Bought a used HeliMax MX450, I knew nothing about CCPM heli's and totalled it the second flight.
Bought a Sim and practiced, then bought a CopterX 450 SE. The CopterX is one of the first Trex clones and their quality in my opinion is just as good. Ehirobo's customer service is better than Align's as well.

Once I got comfortable with learning circuits I sold the 450 SE and bought a CopterX Black Angel. I really like that one.

I now have 4 helis:

Gaui 255
CopterX 450 Black Angel
Gaui 550 (I think the Gaui line is the best bang for the buck)
Miniature Aircraft Furion 6

I've also owned a couple of different Trex lines 250, 450 Pro.

So this is a long winded answer to your question of if I had it to do over again what would I buy? If I still had limited funds like I had getting in to the hobby I would go with a CopterX 450 SE or Pro. They are inexpensive and the quality is top notch, and like I said above Ehirobo's customer service is very good. You can find Ehirobo posting and giving advice on the message boards, most manufacturers and distributors do not do this.

OK Guys... because of this thread... I’m actually going to give Heli's another shot. Talk to some Heli guys down at the field today and explained how and why i got out of the Heli sport after the Blade 120 SR and the mCP... their reply was "well no wonder"!!!

My conversation went something like this... They explained how "Blade heli's are ok but that when I really want to have fun, Align heli's are the way to learn and the comparison in planes is like trying to learn on a 3ch Champ rather than a larger 4ch high wing trainer... you can learn both ways and both methods are correct but the later will teach you more and will be both more rewarding and fun in the end." (Being a plane pilot i had to agree with that)

So....... long story short... I’m going to give it another shot since zeta30 has helped open a door of affordability for me with the CopterX CX 450PRO. So I plan to get this Heli and have these guys help me assemble it so i learn what the hell i'm doing when it's time to fix it. I just got to wait till my next pay day now .

-John

P.S. Will the Orange RX work on these?

[zeta30]

Originally Posted by jap71173

OK Guys... because of this thread... I’m actually going to give Heli's another shot. Talk to some Heli guys down at the field today and explained how and why i got out of the Heli sport after the Blade 120 SR and the mCP... their reply was "well no wonder"!!!

My conversation went something like this... They explained how "Blade heli's are ok but that when I really want to have fun, Align heli's are the way to learn and the comparison in planes is like trying to learn on a 3ch Champ rather than a larger 4ch high wing trainer... you can learn both ways and both methods are correct but the later will teach you more and will be both more rewarding and fun in the end." (Being a plane pilot i had to agree with that)

So....... long story short... I’m going to give it another shot since zeta30 has helped open a door of affordability for me with the CopterX CX 450PRO. So I plan to get this Heli and have these guys help me assemble it so i learn what the hell i'm doing when it's time to fix it. I just got to wait till my next pay day now .

-John

P.S. Will the Orange RX work on these?

It's very good that you have a group of experienced people on hand to help you out. They can make sure your heli is set up properly and also help program the transmitter. It sounds like they will be a very valuable resource for guidance.

One other thing that I always advise people to do is to buy a simulator and practice on it. A sim is excellent in teaching you orientation and other skills. They can be a little spendy but will pay for themselves in crash costs in the long run.

[M@!]

Very good thread. Those CopterX birds look very appealing.

[jap71173]

Originally Posted by zeta30

It's very good that you have a group of experienced people on hand to help you out. They can make sure your heli is set up properly and also help program the transmitter. It sounds like they will be a very valuable resource for guidance.

One other thing that I always advise people to do is to buy a simulator and practice on it. A sim is excellent in teaching you orientation and other skills. They can be a little spendy but will pay for themselves in crash costs in the long run.

I'm kind of having second thoughts on the CopterX brand now... i saw a Blade 450 for $300 at my LHS... you think that would be a better option than the $150 (w/shipping) CopterX?

Oh, another thing i was going to ask... someone that was trying to sell me a Align Trex 450 combo w/rx was telling me that my Dx6i won't work that great with it and that i would need to get a better TX like a DX8... something about 11ms timing??? not sure???

[zeta30]

I personally don't like the Blade 450's. I've rebuilt a friends quite a number of times and they don't hold up well in a crash. The servo gears seem to strip if you look at them wrong. E-Flight packages it great as a very inexpensive BNF or RTF heli, but you really don't get much for the price.

Your Dx6i will work for heli's. Don't let your friend talk you in to a new TX unless you really want one. The only draw back with the Dx6i is that you won't get the programming features that a newer one will have. If you wanted more features with out breaking the bank then there are a ton of used Dx7's out there for great prices, make sure that you get the Heli Mode one if you want to get serious with Heli's.

[jap71173]

Originally Posted by zeta30

I personally don't like the Blade 450's. I've rebuilt a friends quite a number of times and they don't hold up well in a crash. The servo gears seem to strip if you look at them wrong. E-Flight packages it great as a very inexpensive BNF or RTF heli, but you really don't get much for the price.

Your Dx6i will work for heli's. Don't let your friend talk you in to a new TX unless you really want one. The only draw back with the Dx6i is that you won't get the programming features that a newer one will have. If you wanted more features with out breaking the bank then there are a ton of used Dx7's out there for great prices, make sure that you get the Heli Mode one if you want to get serious with Heli's.

Well Zeta30... my CopterX has arrived and i must say... i was completely intimidated when i first opened the box!!

But then, I watched this video of it's assembly on Youtube:

CopterX 450 Pro time lapse build - 7 hours in 5 minutes

And now... well now I’m just petrified in fear!!! lol

My friend doesn’t know it yet, but he's going to be building this thing while i just watch and learn.....

[zeta30]

It is a bit intimidating at first but each time you crash and repair it you get more comfortable with where the parts go. Take your time, make sure you remove every single screw that is screwed in to metal and put thread lock on it. You don't want to put thread lock on a screw that is screwed in to plastic as the thread lock will eat the plastic.

[lucas45]

Hi,
You may want to invest in a FMA Copilot. I learnt on a sim and went straight to a Trex-500. The Copilot helped me learn without crashing but this is not to say that you can`t crash. If you get into trouble it will straighten your heli to straight and level and from there you have a better chance of saving your machine. One you get better you can dial it down or remove it. It was the best $200 investment I ever did.
$200 does not take long in repairs!

good luck and sim practice practice practise!

[zeta30]

Originally Posted by lucas45

Hi,
You may want to invest in a FMA Copilot. I learnt on a sim and went straight to a Trex-500. The Copilot helped me learn without crashing but this is not to say that you can`t crash. If you get into trouble it will straighten your heli to straight and level and from there you have a better chance of saving your machine. One you get better you can dial it down or remove it. It was the best $200 investment I ever did.
$200 does not take long in repairs!

good luck and sim practice practice practise!

That's an excellent suggestion. I flew with some guys a while back and they all had Co-Pilots. ( I was the only one who didn't). Not only did it save them money in the long term investment, but they also flew with a lot more confidence knowing that if they got in to trouble they just had to flip a switch and it will get the heli upright. This meant that they weren't so scared of crashing that they wouldn't try new maneuvers.

Another good thing about the co-pilots is that you can set it up any way you want. Meaning if you want it to control only the collective and you want to control the tail then it will set up that way.

There are a few draw backs you need to watch out for though. The first is that the air temperature and the ground temperature must be different. I can't remember how much of a difference there has to be, but if the air and ground temps are the same then it won't work right. Also they don't work well with a lot of FBL systems, but then if you are just beginning you probably won't have a FBL heli.

[lucas45]

Originally Posted by zeta30

That's an excellent suggestion. I flew with some guys a while back and they all had Co-Pilots. ( I was the only one who didn't). Not only did it save them money in the long term investment, but they also flew with a lot more confidence knowing that if they got in to trouble they just had to flip a switch and it will get the heli upright. This meant that they weren't so scared of crashing that they wouldn't try new maneuvers.

Another good thing about the co-pilots is that you can set it up any way you want. Meaning if you want it to control only the collective and you want to control the tail then it will set up that way.

There are a few draw backs you need to watch out for though. The first is that the air temperature and the ground temperature must be different. I can't remember how much of a difference there has to be, but if the air and ground temps are the same then it won't work right. Also they don't work well with a lot of FBL systems, but then if you are just beginning you probably won't have a FBL heli.

There was a update by FMA to address the no fly message in that they tweaked the system so that it was more sensitive to the difference and I have yet to get a no fly message in overcast weather. On FBL sytems I agree it could be a problem but FMA have a very good customer help web site. These guys are very helpfull and as you sya beginners in most cases would not be using FBL but there are always exceptions.

Regards

[jap71173]

Originally Posted by zeta30

That's an excellent suggestion. I flew with some guys a while back and they all had Co-Pilots. ( I was the only one who didn't). Not only did it save them money in the long term investment, but they also flew with a lot more confidence knowing that if they got in to trouble they just had to flip a switch and it will get the heli upright. This meant that they weren't so scared of crashing that they wouldn't try new maneuvers.

Another good thing about the co-pilots is that you can set it up any way you want. Meaning if you want it to control only the collective and you want to control the tail then it will set up that way.

There are a few draw backs you need to watch out for though. The first is that the air temperature and the ground temperature must be different. I can't remember how much of a difference there has to be, but if the air and ground temps are the same then it won't work right. Also they don't work well with a lot of FBL systems, but then if you are just beginning you probably won't have a FBL heli.

Originally Posted by lucas45

There was a update by FMA to address the no fly message in that they tweaked the system so that it was more sensitive to the difference and I have yet to get a no fly message in overcast weather. On FBL sytems I agree it could be a problem but FMA have a very good customer help web site. These guys are very helpfull and as you sya beginners in most cases would not be using FBL but there are always exceptions.

Regards

OK, so i have 2 questions...

1) Using a co-pilot system, does the gyro need to be tweaked to work with it or does one set the gyro for normal flight and just "add" the co-pilot?

2) i noticed a few different companies offering co-pilots, is there a specific (reliable) brand or better yet website you recommend?


-John

[lucas45]

Originally Posted by jap71173

OK, so i have 2 questions...

1) Using a co-pilot system, does the gyro need to be tweaked to work with it or does one set the gyro for normal flight and just "add" the co-pilot?

2) i noticed a few different companies offering co-pilots, is there a specific (reliable) brand or better yet website you recommend?


-John

As far as I know the co-Pilot2 from FMA does not control your Gyro. The Gyro is used to control the tail. What the FMA co-pilot2 does is read the horizon via registering the earth and sky temps and thus knows the horizon. It controls your Servos which control your main blades. in essence it works to bring you always to straight and level flight, BUT it does not work like a gps position hold. The helicopter can and will still move (slide) frontwards or sidewards but it will be straight and level.

I would suggest you check thier website out
http://www.fmadirect.com/faqs.htm?category=51
and
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=228

[d12bn]

Have you thought about a Mcpx? It would not be your last heli but you will improve faster on this heli than any other. Because it is tough as nails. Its the first real life simulator.

Good luck

Originally Posted by flynlow

Just wanted some expert advice. Just learning to fly the Blade 120 sr fixed pitch. I feel in my bones I will soon grow board with it and most importantly, here in Minnesota we rarely have calm days. I can afford a bigger heli. What do you experts think of a leap from blade 120 to Trex 550? I'm hoping not to collect too many helis. Your insight greatly appreciated. This goes with out saying I would only master the blade 120 sr first.

[AugieDog]

Interesting