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Old 08-30-2011, 04:18 PM   #1
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Default Know any good F3P powerplants that are cheap?

I'm looking for powerplants that people have already had experience with and at a low cost. 60-70W's

Flying weight 6-7oz

Span roughly 28-36in

Hover at half throttle using something like a GWS HD8040

I'd probably build a biplane of sorts.

Also on the side know of any good micro/nano servos?

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Old 08-31-2011, 03:19 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by GreenAce92 View Post
I'm looking for powerplants that people have already had experience with and at a low cost. 60-70W's

Flying weight 6-7oz

Span roughly 28-36in

Hover at half throttle using something like a GWS HD8040

I'd probably build a biplane of sorts.

Also on the side know of any good micro/nano servos?

A 19g Suppo 2204/14 (~1570Kv) on 2s and an 8x4 GWS HD gets you 310g/10.92oz thrust at 29mph from 5.90A/44W..... but that is a WOT, not half throttle.

If you need 10-12oz thrust to hover, at half throttle....that's a miracle for a <20g motor.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:26 AM   #3
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:57 PM   #4
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Well I did have this setup once it was nice, flew my 6oz plane at half throttle hovering

Motor

Esc
(this speed controller sucked)

4ch corona single conversion rx (nice at 11$)
3 GWS 6g servos
1 2cell pack

I was looking at the Scorpion F3P motor but I find it is always out of stock

I had good performance with the E-flite Park 250 but it's a tad pricy
I would like to get airborn for $60

I did this last time and I built this biplane:
Although I used a Hitec HS-55 to turn all four ailerons and then an HS500 and a GWS 6g servo, just sort of threw together random parts

Maybe the T:W was a lot less than I thought but I could comfortably hover it

I was looking at this motor and esc combo
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...7&pid=B2171399
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...91&pid=V651238

Caste creations is nice, I had the 36Amp one for my Park 480 (great motor)

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Old 09-01-2011, 06:08 PM   #5
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How about a motrofly? A little more expensive at $24.95 but still reasonable.

http://www.subsonicplanes.com/Motrolfly_Motors.html
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by M@! View Post
How about a motrofly? A little more expensive at $24.95 but still reasonable.
I really like my Motrolfly motors. Ken @ Subsonic Planes has very good service to boot.

I fly my ~5oz piYak foamy with a Motrolfly DM2203-1600 on 2S and an 8x4 prop. Performance is good, but it's nearing the limit for this motor and AUW. I imagine F3P flying would barely be acceptable at 6-7oz AUW. You would likely have to run a 3S lipo to get acceptable performance... and that would just add more weight.

Ken @ Subsonic planes was working on a slightly larger version of this motor that would be ideal. However, I haven't seen it released as of yet. You may want to contact him:

sales@subsonicplanes.com

As for servos, I know many swear by the Dymond D47's but they are $$$. I'm running cheap SG50/HXT500's in the piYak. They are inexpensive and get the job done, but don't center very well.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:33 PM   #7
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Those motor's do look great
If there's one thing I've learned that is to buy quality parts then you have those parts for life.

So I'm not too overly concerned on going over the edge slightly.
Thanks for the input guys keep em coming.

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Old 09-01-2011, 11:08 PM   #8
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I haven't tried them yet, but the Cobra motors from Innov8tive look nice. They are however new to the market so not much exists in the way of user experience, etc.

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/ind...ath=21_120_121

Specifically the C-2204/32

At 22g, she is a bit heavier.

Something to keep in mind: Running good lipos can make a difference power wise.

I run quite a few GensAce lipos (HobbyPartz) and they have a definite edge over similar 20C-30C lipos I've used. The voltage sag under load is less = more volts to the motor and more power. They are quite cheap to boot.

Hyperion G3 series lipos are pretty good as well and inexpensive in these sizes (500mAh and under)
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by GreenAce92 View Post
I'm looking for powerplants that people have already had experience with and at a low cost. 60-70W's

Flying weight 6-7oz

Span roughly 28-36in

Hover at half throttle using something like a GWS HD8040

I'd probably build a biplane of sorts.

Also on the side know of any good micro/nano servos?
Little more $$$$, but these "A10" motors will do what the supplier says they will.

http://www.aero-model.com/MotorCategoryList.aspx?ID=A

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Old 09-02-2011, 02:22 PM   #10
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Very nice choices, perhaps I will buy samples here and there and check them out, I'm trying to stay under 10A, no crazy reason just size and weight.

I'm assuming the first three of the Hacker's would be the choice for the small 3D / F3P birds?
The cobra motor looks nice as well.

As I said, maybe I'll just try them out, you never know though you could get a bad batch I guess.

On the other hand this combo looks nice as well, pretty straightforward

http://www.aero-model.com/Hacker-Bru...wer-Combo.aspx

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Old 09-02-2011, 04:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GreenAce92 View Post
I'm assuming the first three of the Hacker's would be the choice for the small 3D / F3P birds?
As I said, maybe I'll just try them out, you never know though you could get a bad batch I guess.

On the other hand this combo looks nice as well, pretty straightforward

http://www.aero-model.com/Hacker-Bru...wer-Combo.aspx
That does look like a nice ready-to-go combination.

I've got seven Hacker motors, ranging from an A30 to an A60-16M, all have performed to specs with zero problems. Some are on their fourth flying season.

Interesting, I purchased a Hacker A50-12S motor in 2008, purchased another A50-12S motor in 2010. Side by side, they both turn a 14X10 APC-E prop at exactly 7850 RPM on a 6S2P A123 battery pack, pulling about 50 amps on the ground.

That first A50 motor now has over 250 flights on it. Just looked at it when swapping ESC's and and switching to a 15X10 APC-E prop. That motor looks like it was never used. The new prop boosted current to about 62 Amps on the ground. The motor is only about 15 degrees above ambient temperature after landing.

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Old 09-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #12
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This is a rough idea of the plane I'm building based on an older plane as well, with the basic wing profile


Note there aren't any dimensions yet, I just build these by the TLAR but I will make plans for this plane (depending on it's success)

Seeing as it is a profile bird, it wouldn't be hard.

The Green Lines are spars
The Blue lines are the connections between the wings.

What do you guys think on the rolling? Will the swept ailerons equal out to provide a flat roll in the x-i(hat) direction?


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Old 09-02-2011, 07:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
That does look like a nice ready-to-go combination.

I've got seven Hacker motors, ranging from an A30 to an A60-16M, all have performed to specs with zero problems. Some are on their fourth flying season.

Interesting, I purchased a Hacker A50-12S motor in 2008, purchased another A50-12S motor in 2010. Side by side, they both turn a 14X10 APC-E prop at exactly 7850 RPM on a 6S2P A123 battery pack, pulling about 50 amps on the ground.

That first A50 motor now has over 250 flights on it. Just looked at it when swapping ESC's and and switching to a 15X10 APC-E prop. That motor looks like it was never used. The new prop boosted current to about 62 Amps on the ground. The motor is only about 15 degrees above ambient temperature after landing.
That's very assuring, that indicates great quality in craftsmanship.
I thank you for your 'review' / experience on the motor(s).

Just a side question, what can you suggest for a power plant / combo that would push a 3-4 lb plane (FPV plane) for roughly 20-30 mins with speeds excess of 50mph (cruising).
The last plane I built which is around this description is my Nameless.
This bird used a Park 480 on 3S 1800mah 20C with a 12x6 E APC prop.

I could fly for 20mins when I didn't just gun it for a straight climb. (The plane only weighed 22oz fully loaded, and 27 with camera)

Unfortunately I no longer have this plane, seeing as my cruddy tail construction came apart in a full speed dive to the ground, the dual spars were snapped, it wasn't pretty.
The plane figuratively exploded 50ft off the ground and came spinning down like a maple seed, luckily I was 10ft from the shoreline of the beach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzgyoppJGZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxLltT0Y1As

What a solid bird, even with the split tail (the next version will use kite boom spars)

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Old 09-02-2011, 09:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by GreenAce92 View Post
Just a side question, what can you suggest for a power plant / combo that would push a 3-4 lb plane (FPV plane) for roughly 20-30 mins with speeds excess of 50mph (cruising)
I've got a Hacker A40-10L in a 5 pound model, spinning a 14X8 APC-E prop at 7600 RPM, pulling 700 Watts using a 6S1P A123 pack. This power system pulls that model straight up out of sight. And the watts on that motor could be increased to about 60% higher with a 6S2P A123 pack or a good quality 5S LiPo.

For a 3-4 pound model, check out the Hacker A40-12S motor.
http://www.aero-model.com/Hacker-Brushless-A40-12S.aspx

Agreed, there are less costly motors out there, but motors like the Hackers will continue to perform at their maximum ratings for years without issues.

The A123's are larger, heavier, have lower voltage than a LiPo, but they can be charged in the model at high rates. Mine are charged in about 15-18 minutes. And, I've got several 6S2P A123 packs with over 250 flights on them. They have the same exact performance as when brand new four years ago.

Getting 30 minute flights is going to call for a high milliampere hour capacity LiPo battery that is going to add substantial weight to your model. One program that can help in your project is www.motocalc.com. It would be a good idea to put in a motor that turns a large diameter propeller at fairly slow RPM to get longer flight times.

One problem with these larger models is how much power they take to fly. As a very crude rule of thumb, doubling the wingspan takes about 8 times more horsepower to fly it. Which is why a 1/4 scale Piper Cub can fly with a 4 horsepower gas engine, but a full scale Cub takes over a hundred horses.

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Old 09-02-2011, 10:33 PM   #15
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wow thank you for that wealthy information!

A123 lipo's you say? I'll have to check this out, I have to learn about the whole C rating and constant discharge stuff so that I can figure out the expected performance of my model.

Thanks for the information again, I appreciate it.

Also are we talking around 1000Kv range?

And wow, 6S packs? I haven't even used a 4S once in my life.

It'll be a new experience

How about folding propellers? Right now I'm looking to build a smaller version of my pusher twin boom airplane using one of the small hacker motors, but for later on, the cruising FPV ship, I would like it to utilize folding propellers.

Any info on that?

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