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Old 03-15-2012, 03:30 AM   #151
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the gyro idea is intriguing,but think about it for a moment. we have a small park jet that flys great once airborne. a good friend who can throw straight and at a steep angle with out getting cut is the answer...as you toss with 1/2 to 3/4 throttle she peels away and we make our runs clean and sweet. i personally don't see any room in the canopy for more than the battery,Rx,v3. at least i have the esc strapped down outside the canopy with the battery taking up the most space so if you do find space to fit a gyro. it'll be interesting to see it installed. how big is the gyro you hope to use?

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:54 AM   #152
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Head-Lock-...item19c496b3cf

Its a 450 Heli Gyro that I have spare ... 15gr they reckon so weight is not a problem, but it is a small box and would need to find space to fit. t would of course be on end to get roll rather than yaw ...

I don't really want to fit two, being a split servo elevon machine, but hope that one gyro via one elevon may be enough.

Has anyone considered splitting the elevons into elevator / aileron sections ? ie cut each in half ... make outboard aileron, inboard elevator ? You could still do it with the two servos ... it will also then be easy for gyro to connect into the aileron part. I know -silly idea !

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Old 03-15-2012, 12:54 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Make sure you have a real contrast top to bottom ... this baby needs it !! And when it gets away a distance - it's all grey and just make sure you KNOW which way up she is and direction she's heading ! Seriously - this is one small bird that soon gets difficult to see ...

Gyro it is then ... but HOW to connect it when I have separate servos for each elevon ? Maybe just have it act on one ?... ie the aileron channel ?

Std helicopter set-up is tail servo via the gyro to Rx ... Gyro sense to aux ch.
Uuuuhhh... Elevons, that's right... Didn't think of that. The only solution I could think of would be to use an external mixer and hook up the gyro to the aileron channel before the mixer.

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Old 03-15-2012, 01:04 PM   #154
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Uuuuhhh... Elevons, that's right... Didn't think of that. The only solution I could think of would be to use an external mixer and hook up the gyro to the aileron channel before the mixer.
More I think about it - it's only way I can see forward with the gyro.

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Old 03-15-2012, 03:07 PM   #155
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OK ... v-tail mixer on order ... gyro will be removed from spare 450 heli .... lighter 3800kv motor will be fitted, that will allow the gyro weight to be added ... smaller prop diameter ... hopefully that combo should get a reliable launch for me.

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Old 03-16-2012, 03:01 PM   #156
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http://www.century-rc.com/ecs/produc....php?p_id=6115

Now this is the way to go ? Designed for the job ....

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Old 03-16-2012, 09:47 PM   #157
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hello Nigel,this really does look interesting .8 grams isn't to bad to add to the mix to try to gain control of over powered pkj's.

..finally we're getting some weather predictions for flyable weather...mids 60's temp and 5 mph winds,i am 15 mins from starting to charge a slew of batteries for the uproar,aj slick,and parkjet #1.

I'm still waiting on the 4850kv motor and the v3 speedmeter to arrive from hk,but truth is my not having flown this winter and wrecking 2 planes in one day 3 weeks ago has me knowing the funjet and pkj#2 has to wait for more nimble fingers on the sticks.
i should also be able to try out my video box for my lcd screen video camera... so Saturday should be fun! hope to provide vids of the day.

NJS,i won't try to get down your way till i feel better about my flying skills getting back to normal..lol..,what ever normal is. we will get some speed runs in soon as it won't take me long to get my dumb winter thumbs smarter. i could have spent time on the simulator,but then i wouldn't have been ca'ed to balsa in the basement workshop.

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Old 03-17-2012, 07:33 AM   #158
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Hows about this little baby ...

http://www.heliguy.com/Extras/Helico...Alien-Command/

Primarily designed for heli's (pity the designer forgot about majority are 120 deg swash plate) .... but maybe just the ticket IF a clear view of terrain can be had by the IR sensors. My thoughts are a streamlined pod under the belly ?

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Old 03-17-2012, 08:55 AM   #159
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HJigher priced but can be buried in model and no need for external view ...

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Guardian/index.htm

This is probably the better of the gear as it's a blind inertial gyro system. It also has provision for 4 ch's / servos.

I can see myself improving not only my PKJ but a lot of other models characteristics as well ... regardless of the "cheating accusations" !!

Think about those kangaroo landings we ALL do now and again ! How many times have you wished for an auto-recover when that model plunges out of sky !

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Old 03-17-2012, 08:59 AM   #160
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Stuarts comment about getting back top flying capability is very true .. and is why I like my Cessna.

I don't like jumping straight into my EDF or PKJ without a quick sticks on the Cessna ... bit like an athelete warming up on track. Last time out .. the EDF had a failed ESC, and Cessna was at home due to being a rough field. So I thought - Oh Hell ... PKJ ... Yep - ended up in bits.

I'm now away again and looking fwd to getting home and trial all these ideas we're having.

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Old 03-17-2012, 03:31 PM   #161
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I use my Mavrick RUST BUSTER when i go flying, sometimes due to weather or othe issues, that I dont get a chance to go fly for 2 to 3 weeks, so when that happens, i get out my almost 4 year old mavrick profile foamy and tear up the sky with it, then i am ready to go fly anything

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #162
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Nigel/Chellie/Stuart,

Have you seen the Ruby Auto pilot? USD $345.00

http://www.uthere.com/products/ruby/..._aircraft.html

A friend put one in their Sig club trainer and after a few tweaks the plane will land itself. Pretty cool.

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Old 03-17-2012, 09:44 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Nigel/Chellie/Stuart,

Have you seen the Ruby Auto pilot? USD $345.00

http://www.uthere.com/products/ruby/..._aircraft.html

A friend put one in their Sig club trainer and after a few tweaks the plane will land itself. Pretty cool.
HOW MUCH ??? My Gyro cost me $15 .... the mixer another $4 ... and even thats higher price than quite a few SMALLER gyros more suited to the PKJ .

The Alien Command even at full RRP is under $60 ....

The Eagle Tree Guardian is under $80 ....

For me if I fit a dedicated system - I think the Eagle Tree Guardian would get my vote ... as it doesn't need any horizon view and can be installed deep in the fuselage.

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Old 03-18-2012, 01:08 AM   #164
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to rich for my blood....lol....seriousely,if i were flying a really beautiful plane with bucks invested,a top quality gyro is the way to go. especially if it was fpv.

todays flights were the uproar and slick,no one at the field would have the strength or agility to throw the pkj. and at the end of the day the winds really started to p/u so even when the younger folks showed up i was leaving. 7 great flights and lots of good conversations with the bud's.

Sunday I'm taking the pkj1,aj slick,and the skimmer sail plane for those enjoyable air time flights. that is after church first,hope the afternoon is like todays was.


i say we should let the pkj fly virgin without added gear,and do the gyros work while sticks are in movement or when returned to center for it[gyro]to take over ? cause theres a whole lot of stick use to fly these babies fast...lol

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Old 03-18-2012, 07:47 AM   #165
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Well I decided in the end to go for a smaller Gyro than the 105 I have now. The Hobby King min MEMS for a 250 Heli is on it's way and at $9.99 seems a good deal.
Hooking that up to the Hobby King V-Tail mixer on aileron input.

With that - I'm hoping that I can basically throw this thing in the air whatever the weather / wind.

I note that there's a cute little 250 heli motor with 5250kv on Hobby King site in review a guy ran 4.1 x 4.1 on it....... mmmmmmmmm later methinks when the ordered 3800kv has outrun itself.

It's gone very quiet on this thread ....... have all given up ? C'mon guys ... there must be some news ?

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Old 03-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #166
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Launch systems / techniques ..........

Because of the debates on launching these PKJ's ... can we get together a set of launch vids ? showing successful systems and methods in use ?
The bungee one springs to mind immediately ...

Quite often the vid doesn't show the launch clearly, we see the PKJ climbing into the sky or death rolling into the ground.

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Old 03-18-2012, 01:17 PM   #167
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hi Nigel,it's Sunday morning here in NJ,time to get ready for church and i still hope to be able to do some thermal searching later. for many sail planes are boring....for me,it's the ultimate in relaxing flight. also 4 guys can be buzzing around at once and sail planes don't count as we fly much higher......still,i like to be by a flight line barrier in case some yells "heads up,duck!"

i have batteries charged for the slick,skimmer.funjet,and pkj#1. i tested my video camera blackout box and need to close the back view hole opening to accommodate a eye piece do to still to much light getting in.

things may go quite here as flying improves. also I'm wondering why 2 sep orders shipped at the same time and the one i want still hasn't arrived. with out the v3 i don't want to toss the pkj2 up.

one thing i will say about this thread....we are nearing 5000 views and it was stared last fall....there is a group of folks watching and flying these type planes and the gyro idea will spark more interest.

as far as launch methods....i am still at a loss,bungee won't be very good on my field with others flying...comon gang,lets come up with something compact that shoots the pkj like the best hand launcher ever. i have been considering getting the knife proof glove for the guys who will throw pushersor for my own left hand throw {I'm right handed]


i'll post later this evening here if pkj flys. have a great day.

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Old 03-18-2012, 02:32 PM   #168
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My idea on launcher keeps going back to the two plumber pipes and a bungee ...
I posted a paint jpg where I reckon to have two rails at an angle on the ground. Wide enough apart to let PKJ prop work without fouling.
I reckon a slingshot bungee from ahead of it would be OK ...
Problem with a short bungee is that the acceleration soon stops ...

Glider guys use real long ones across fields ...

Thinking about that - Stu - we used long thermal glider bungees in fields with all forms of flying going on ... see my Youtube vids ... as power guys we made sure we knew where and which direction bungee was working.

A guy on here is using a 20ft bungee and short light line as well ... can that guy come back to us ?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/s...dProduct=10329

I'm an idiot ... just made an order at HK ... and forgot to add this !

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Old 03-18-2012, 04:06 PM   #169
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This is what I'm thinkling of ...

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Link if above dopesn't work .... http://youtu.be/YEOsvdMA-nk

Now that's a 90mm EDF Viper ... and it works a treat ...

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:01 PM   #170
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had great weather for flying,only a little windy. the field today was packed with pilots and seems 2 or 3 planes airborne at any one time........sooooo,i chickened out on tossing the funjet or pkj. i just need more stick time,till then i have to fly with my head and not take high speed chances. gotta admit,i was feeling like turning around and heading back to the field on the way home,but i know i made the right decision.[still torturing myself as i type]

the other thing that bothered me was a couple of pilots i haven't seen for years were commenting on a buddy of mine who launches his own funjet with a toss. a lot of folks know the blades turn fast and sharp on pushers and a blade strike can be serious. you may be right Nigel,a 20ft bungee with another 20ft of line and we should be good to go. i can leave the launcher at the field and plant a stake in the ground at the end of the runway. then we need to figure the hook location on the pkj fuse for both a pull for speed and lift[at cg,or forward of cg],and a strong way to mount the hook. looks like bungees the way.
when i was a kid there were toys that were shot with a sling shot and flew over a 100ft up without power...to bad we can't figure out a smaller way to launch. what about a sling shot using the same rubber a bungee uses. it like the rubber on a doctors stethoscope. my guess is the power displaced so quickly wouldn't equate to speed and lift,and might damage the fuse. the bottom line is if someone could toss the pkj hard enough to glide a slower power up would reduce torque roll..... arrrg,getting a headach.

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Old 03-19-2012, 12:21 AM   #171
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What about a discus throw? Have you tried it? Doesn't work?

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Old 03-19-2012, 12:50 AM   #172
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i know the move but want to watch you do it.....we might both die laughing the guy on flite test did the pkj review and did the discus/frizzbee toss,it was a little rough to recover but he did it anyway,





Flite Test - EPO ParkJet - REVIEW - YouTube
12 min - Dec 6, 2010
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www.youtube.com/watch?v

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:50 AM   #173
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Hehe...

Well... I have a plan! I always have a plan...

And my plan is to go to a nearby meadow with tall, crash friendly grass and practice some tosses. First un-powered to see how she behaves. Then I'll add power to see where the sweet spot for takeoff is.

...or it'll just crash miserably and I'll be all embarrassed.

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Old 03-19-2012, 02:21 AM   #174
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hey,i always have the extra pkj waiting ....i'll let you have it after your test throw for a easy 3 payments of




























sorry had to do that...lol i watched the wing toss a few times and think thats how i'll try to launch pkj1 next time the field isn't so crowed

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Old 03-19-2012, 08:23 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by stuart View Post
had great weather for flying,only a little windy. the field today was packed with pilots and seems 2 or 3 planes airborne at any one time........sooooo,i chickened out on tossing the funjet or pkj. i just need more stick time,till then i have to fly with my head and not take high speed chances. gotta admit,i was feeling like turning around and heading back to the field on the way home,but i know i made the right decision.[still torturing myself as i type]
You didn't fly ? I can remember at Beaulieu UK ... even in the days of 35Mhz and freq. control - there'd be maybe 10 models at one time in air .. all sorts from gliders through to out and out pylon racers ... See my Youtube ch.

the other thing that bothered me was a couple of pilots i haven't seen for years were commenting on a buddy of mine who launches his own funjet with a toss. a lot of folks know the blades turn fast and sharp on pushers and a blade strike can be serious.
That's one reason why I don't launch myself, at least a separate launch guy can hold / throw best to keep hands safe.

you may be right Nigel,a 20ft bungee with another 20ft of line and we should be good to go.
I'm really kicking myself as HK has the bungee for about $3 for 10m ... and I could have added to my last order for free shipping ! that's enough I reckon with a 10m fishing line and parachute. I know you guys know what to do but the parachute is the connector ... the centre top of the chute has the ring and when pulling the model parachute stays closed under tension, when it disconnects the chute opens and all see where it lands.

i can leave the launcher at the field and plant a stake in the ground at the end of the runway. then we need to figure the hook location on the pkj fuse for both a pull for speed and lift[at cg,or forward of cg],and a strong way to mount the hook. looks like bungees the way.
I would follow the glider boys. I reckon a small wire L hook just about where the wing root starts ... you need to be ahead of CoG so it gets a pull fwd, but no so far that model spins, far enough back so pitch can act and nose be controlled to gain height. The hook to be bound and epoxied into bottom of fuselage on a good wood beam set in with epoxy.

when i was a kid there were toys that were shot with a sling shot and flew over a 100ft up without power...to bad we can't figure out a smaller way to launch. what about a sling shot using the same rubber a bungee uses. it like the rubber on a doctors stethoscope. my guess is the power displaced so quickly wouldn't equate to speed and lift,and might damage the fuse. the bottom line is if someone could toss the pkj hard enough to glide a slower power up would reduce torque roll..... arrrg,getting a headach.
You're getting to my previous joke photos !

I reckon that the way to go is a combo of gyro and bungee. I agree that launch techniques such as discus throw work and i don't disagree. What I'm trying to arrive at is a foolproof, works everytime, anyone can do it way.

One aspect that needs care ... is the release mechanism.

I have idea that a foot operated release is way. A small plate pivoted so that it sits in front of tow L hook of PKJ. That way the bungee load is not on the PKJ untill release. The plate is connected to an axle that extends out side of launch rails ... yes I reckon bungee allied to launch rails .... with a foot pedal on. Tread on it ... plate pivots down PKJ is hurled fwd by the bungee up the launch rails ............. ring on bungee end as it passes overhead drops / slides of the small L hook ...

It all sounds complicated but in fact is simple and I reckon could be made up by anyone ... witness the Viperjet guy in video.

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