Any way to test Tx / Rx

[Doclove524]

Hey guys..... Well I finally got out to maiden the Senior Telemaster yesterday. Flew two full batteries.. About 8 - 10 min flight time each. I had aprox 6 takeoffs and landings all very nice!! This thing floats nice. The tail section instantly comes off the ground under power and it takes a bit to get used to steering with just the rudder and no "wheel" on the ground!!
I did manage 6 very nice soft landings.. was a blast!! I am noticing that I seem to be loosing receiption beween my Tx and Rx when the plane gets out a ways... this is not right... that is not good!!! Is there any way to test to see if it is a TX or an Rx problem??? I am half tempted to just buy a 2.4Ghz system and be done with it but that takes more money!!! Gulp..

Any advise??

Thanks,
Mark

[NJSwede]

What radio system do you have? 72MHz I assume? How about a classic range check? Push the antenna in and walk 100' away from the model. Ask a friend to check the control surfaces while you move the sticks. You should have smooth movement of the control surfaces, without any jitter or cut-outs. If you don't get 100' ft range with the antenna pushed in, walk closer and see when you gain control. Check your transmitter manual for the exact procedure and recommended minimum range. I'd say you should get at least 100' or you have a problem.

[NJSwede]

Hmm... I think I misunderstood the question... You want to figure out whether it's a RX *or* a TX problem, right? The only thing I can think of is to make a range check with the same TX and another model (if you have one).

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by NJSwede

Hmm... I think I misunderstood the question... You want to figure out whether it's a RX *or* a TX problem, right? The only thing I can think of is to make a range check with the same TX and another model (if you have one).

I started noticing a problem and did a range check with the antenna all the way in... Seems I only got about 50' or so away and started to loose control. This is the same Tx/Rx combo I have had in a few different planes without any problems. I do not have another rx to try to determine if it is the Tx or the Rx....

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

I started noticing a problem and did a range check with the antenna all the way in... Seems I only got about 50' or so away and started to loose control. This is the same Tx/Rx combo I have had in a few different planes without any problems. I do not have another rx to try to determine if it is the Tx or the Rx....

FYI I am using a JR 6channel Tx with an RS600 receiver

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

FYI I am using a JR 6channel Tx with an RS600 receiver

What frequency set are you on ? 27Mhz, 35Mhz, 40Mhz, 72Mhz ??

50' is not much to be honest - but is that with antena fully home with nothing apart from top button proud of case ?

Which model JR Tx is it ? There are many 6ch JR's out there old and new.

As much info about the radio gear as possible is appreciated for anyone to try and guess what may be problem.

[Rodneh]

Some things to check: make sure the receiver antenna is the proper length (39 to 41 inches if 72MHz) and that there are no hidden breaks in it under the insulation; make sure the receiver antenna is fully extended; make sure the transmitter antenna is firmly screwed into the transmitter. There are other checks but the above are easy to do and should always be done anyway.

[flydiver]

There are a number of things that can mess up your connection. Bad antenna, short antenna, poorly placed antenna, funky crystal, etc.
This is several pages long but well worth the effort to read and understand.
http://www.acteurope.de/RX-gb.pdf

I've seen a system where the antenna was routed for about 10" along a servo lead not be good for 20 feet of connection. Once routed properly the same system could go beyond functional eyesight.

2.4GHz systems definitely have some advantage but they have a new set of disadvantages. I'm still on 72. Most of my buddies are on 2.4. I see no compelling reason to switch yet and they have as many problem (different) than I do. The price of 2.4 RX is WAY to steep, especially if you aren't willing to go the clone route.

It's most likely an RX problem but I have seen a bad TX that took a LONG time to figure out.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Hey guys..... Well I finally got out to maiden the Senior Telemaster yesterday. Flew two full batteries.. About 8 - 10 min flight time each. I had aprox 6 takeoffs and landings all very nice!! This thing floats nice. The tail section instantly comes off the ground under power and it takes a bit to get used to steering with just the rudder and no "wheel" on the ground!!
I did manage 6 very nice soft landings.. was a blast!! I am noticing that I seem to be loosing receiption beween my Tx and Rx when the plane gets out a ways... this is not right... that is not good!!! Is there any way to test to see if it is a TX or an Rx problem??? I am half tempted to just buy a 2.4Ghz system and be done with it but that takes more money!!! Gulp..

Any advise??

Thanks,
Mark

I'm assuming you're running a brushless motor? I had a LOT of grief with brush type Astroflight motors and 72 Mhz receivers getting hit by electrical noise from the Astroflight motors and the brush type ESC's. (The new brushless motors have far less electrical noise than the old brush type motors.) I actually had an Astro 90 geared motor with 38 Nicad cells that resulted in a range of about 15 feet. With the transmitter antenna fully extended!!!

One thing certain on 72 Mhz, keep your receiver, the receiver battery and all receiver/batter/servo wiring as far from the motor/ESC/motor battery as you can.

If you're running the receiver off of the motor battery with a switching converter type of BEC, try running the receiver from a separate receiver battery to see what happens.

Be sure to range check with the motor at different power levels, including off, up through the full power range. A good setup will show no difference in range with the motor on or off.

That's the nice thing about the 2.4 Ghz microwave radios, its not easy to generate 2.4 Ghz frequencies for your radio circuitry. And, nearly impossible to generate 2.4 Ghz by accident, as in motor electrical noise.

(If you are running a brush type motor, I've had good success in putting ferrite toroid chokes in the motor wires. Cheap, and they worked. I can suggest a toroid choke supplier if needed.)

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

I'm assuming you're running a brushless motor? I had a LOT of grief with brush type Astroflight motors and 72 Mhz receivers getting hit by electrical noise from the Astroflight motors and the brush type ESC's. (The new brushless motors have far less electrical noise than the old brush type motors.) I actually had an Astro 90 geared motor with 38 Nicad cells that resulted in a range of about 15 feet. With the transmitter antenna fully extended!!!

One thing certain on 72 Mhz, keep your receiver, the receiver battery and all receiver/batter/servo wiring as far from the motor/ESC/motor battery as you can.

If you're running the receiver off of the motor battery with a switching converter type of BEC, try running the receiver from a separate receiver battery to see what happens.

Be sure to range check with the motor at different power levels, including off, up through the full power range. A good setup will show no difference in range with the motor on or off.

That's the nice thing about the 2.4 Ghz microwave radios, its not easy to generate 2.4 Ghz frequencies for your radio circuitry. And, nearly impossible to generate 2.4 Ghz by accident, as in motor electrical noise.

(If you are running a brush type motor, I've had good success in putting ferrite toroid chokes in the motor wires. Cheap, and they worked. I can suggest a toroid choke supplier if needed.)

Ok so I ordered a new rx (RS600) for my JR 6 channel tx as I noticed that the plastic in a few places was chipped up. I also ordered a comlete 2.4 system. I put the new rx in yesterday and am experiencing the same problem. I get about 40 - 50' away and start loosing control with the antenna all the way down. I have the rx mounted well back in the fuse far away from the ESC and the Bat. Seems I have good control of the surfaces when the motor is not running. Soon as I start the motor everything goes haywire!! I have flown this same setup in two different planes with fuel motors with no problems. Seems the electric motor is fouling out my comunications between the tx and rx. Is this typical of 72mhz fm radio???
Mo money Mo money!!!

[NJSwede]

Yep. The motor can very well generate enough static to knock out an FM (72MHz) RX. A 2.4GHz system has two advantages: First, 2.4GHz is generally a lot higher frequency than what the motor generates and secondly, spread spectrum systems (which all 2.4GHz systems except maybe some dirt cheap ones are) tend to be a lot more resilient to static. The reason is that spread spectrum systems tend to "spread" (hence the name) the signal over a wider range of frequencies, so if you have static on one particular frequency, there's still enough left of the signal that the computer in the receiver can piece it together.

[flydiver]

It's unfortunately somewhat true of JR RX's. Good fuel RX, not so hot for electric. I have a JR7202 and I do use some JR RX. I'm familiar with the problem.
Berg is a much better choice. I've also had good experiences with Corona and Hitech. GWS-not so much.

The RX and antenna have to be well clear of ALL the electronics. Even running the antenna along the servo wire can screw it up.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Ok so I ordered a new rx (RS600) for my JR 6 channel tx as I noticed that the plastic in a few places was chipped up. I also ordered a comlete 2.4 system. I put the new rx in yesterday and am experiencing the same problem. I get about 40 - 50' away and start loosing control with the antenna all the way down. I have the rx mounted well back in the fuse far away from the ESC and the Bat. Seems I have good control of the surfaces when the motor is not running. Soon as I start the motor everything goes haywire!! I have flown this same setup in two different planes with fuel motors with no problems. Seems the electric motor is fouling out my comunications between the tx and rx. Is this typical of 72mhz fm radio???
Mo money Mo money!!!

Are you running a brush type motor? If so, the solution I used some 10 years ago was two ferrite toroid chokes, one on each motor lead, about a buck from places such as www.digikey.com. Just run the motor lead through the center of the choke, and put "One turn" on it. That's it.

The units I used were http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...6-nd&x=22&y=18

These are pretty big, but I had other uses for them. They do come in a wide variety of sizes.

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

Are you running a brush type motor? If so, the solution I used some 10 years ago was two ferrite toroid chokes, one on each motor lead, about a buck from places such as www.digikey.com. Just run the motor lead through the center of the choke, and put "One turn" on it. That's it.

The units I used were http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...6-nd&x=22&y=18

These are pretty big, but I had other uses for them. They do come in a wide variety of sizes.

I am using a brushless motor......

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

I am using a brushless motor......

H'mmmm
Those toroid chokes won't do much good on a brushless motor. Did you try using a separate receiver battery for the receiver? Methinks if you've ordered a name brand 2.4 Ghz radio such as Spektrum/JR or Futaba, your problems should go away.

[Doclove524]

Ok so I got my 2.4 system in last night and installed everything, powered everything up, and bound the rx and she seems to work wonderfully. I did not get a chance to "feild check" it formally, but I taxied it way up the street and back down with no loss of control. So with a 2.4 system you can't feild check by putting the antenna all the way in and walking away to check, so what do you do? I assume you need a friend and you just get in the car and drive away and then get out and work the control surfaces as your friend watches

Thanks guys!!

Mark

[Rodneh]

I do ;not know which system you purchased but most have a range check procedure, check your manual. Either by holding down certain keys as you turn the transmitter on or a switch or button you -press will put the transmitter into a LO-PWR mode so that you can do the conventional range check by walking a few paces away from the receiver.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Ok so I got my 2.4 system in last night and installed everything, powered everything up, and bound the rx and she seems to work wonderfully. I did not get a chance to "feild check" it formally, but I taxied it way up the street and back down with no loss of control. So with a 2.4 system you can't feild check by putting the antenna all the way in and walking away to check, so what do you do? I assume you need a friend and you just get in the car and drive away and then get out and work the control surfaces as your friend watches

Thanks guys!!

Mark

LOL
These 2.4 Ghz radio systems are pretty much line of sight for range. And their full range for the Spektrum/JR class 2.4 Ghz systems is several miles! Trees and similar items between your transmitter and receiver will reduce range.

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

LOL
These 2.4 Ghz radio systems are pretty much line of sight for range. And their full range for the Spektrum/JR class 2.4 Ghz systems is several miles! Trees and similar items between your transmitter and receiver will reduce range.

2.4 is sensitive to any obstacle in it's path ... unlike lower freq. FM

Chain link fencing can stuff 2.4 .... as example.

Take this as an indicator ... your WiFi at home is likely 2.4ghz ... look at strength meter on your PC when you move from room to room. And that WiFi will be more powerful than your RC gear.

But don't worry ... I'm only illustrating and usually you should have no trouble.

Range Checking ............ many 2.4Ghz systems will use the same Bind Button to reduce power of TX to conduct a Range Check. Often it comes down to using button AFTER switching on ... check manual if you have one. It's worth searching online for your radio brand / model for range check info, as many actually do not mention how to do it. In fact a well known brand - the range Check function often does not work ! Possibly never connected anyway ...

If all else fails ..... you could get a buddy to check model while you walk away ......... need a long road and good communications though .....
Don't forget also that many models - we set up antena's based on sitting on the bench. When flying those antena's get all orientations to each other and signal strength varies received ... so don't just check with model / Tx in one orientation. I get my helper to flip / turn / alter models aspect while checking. 2.4Ghz with satelite Rx's .. dual antena etc. are particularly susceptible to this.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by solentlife

Take this as an indicator ... your WiFi at home is likely 2.4ghz ... look at strength meter on your PC when you move from room to room. And that WiFi will be more powerful than your RC gear.. I get my helper to flip / turn / alter models aspect while checking. 2.4Ghz with satelite Rx's .. dual antena etc. are particularly susceptible to this.

Could be just my setup, but my Spektrum DX7 transmitted signal was 40 db higher in magnitude higher in output power than my WiFi signals from the laptop. (The Spectrum Analyzer was on a different PC.) Take a look: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63497 (For $40, that Spectrum analyzer was quite interesting.)

Question on the 2.4 Ghz receivers with satelite Rx's, thought the satelite Rx was to lower the issue of receiver orientation as compared to the transmitter.

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

Could be just my setup, but my Spektrum DX7 transmitted signal was 40 db higher in magnitude higher in output power than my WiFi signals from the laptop. (The Spectrum Analyzer was on a different PC.) Take a look: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63497 (For $40, that Spectrum analyzer was quite interesting.)

Question on the 2.4 Ghz receivers with satelite Rx's, thought the satelite Rx was to lower the issue of receiver orientation as compared to the transmitter.

Both my 2.4Ghz radios cop out when near to my WiFi router ... and I had a pal visit ... his did same. OK - I have a 3x power WiFi to give me range down to my boat at bottom of garden ... so I accept that maybe mine is higher powered than most.

As to satelite Rx .. yes true ... as long as fitted as per manual .. 90 deg's antena' to each other. But which way do you do the 90 degs ? You cannot have it sorted for all orientations ... there will be aspects when even that will be at disadvantaged aspect to Tx.
How many Tx's do you see where operator doesn't use the swivel to orientate his Tx antena ? How many do you see with tx antena just swiveled to side and in fact bad for transmission to Rx ? I swear some do that to avoid catching antena in car or when carrying !!

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by solentlife

Both my 2.4Ghz radios cop out when near to my WiFi router ... and I had a pal visit ... his did same. OK - I have a 3x power WiFi to give me range down to my boat at bottom of garden ... so I accept that maybe mine is higher powered than most.

Out of curiosity, which brand and transmitter/receiver model number of 2.4 Ghz system do you have?

[Doclove524]

Just wanted to update everyone on my Senior Telemaster build/fly.
I now have 4 full batteries worth of flight time with the 2.4 Ghz setup.
Probably around 15 - 20 takeoff/landings!! Seems I can get around 10 - 12 min flights if I'm easy on the throttle. I like to touch and go and land and take off often. It's great practice and pretty easy with this bigazz plane!! She flys great and I can be going away from me at a pretty good distance away and cut the power all the way and perform a turn and glide it all the way back in for a wonderfully soft landing!! I really enjoy a sport plane and doing all the tricks, but there is something to be said for just floating this giant around... It's quite fun!

Thanks again to everyone for their guidance along the way!!

Mark

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

Out of curiosity, which brand and transmitter/receiver model number of 2.4 Ghz system do you have?

I use 2 systems on 2.4Ghz ..... FlySky with FrSky module / Rx ... latest versions..... second is Radiolink (copy of Futaba 6)

The radios friends have experienced same at my house ... Hitec 6 and a Futaba 8 ... both respected 2.4Ghz sets ...

WiFi is Sweex 3x boost base station ... Funny thing is if i am close to WiFi both WiFi and radios work .. move PC's / radios away and various do / dont ...