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Old 10-02-2011, 11:47 PM   #1
Big Johnny
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Default UAV's Might Be Our Hobby's Downfall

Have any of ya'll visited DYI Drones??? Some of the stuff they are doing over there is going to bring a bunch of heat onto Line of Site R/C flyers.
http://diydrones.com/
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:50 AM   #2
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I really don't think that is going to happen anytime soon. When I fly FPV I have two spotters and fly LOS. I believe most that fly here in the USofA follow AMA guild lines as all the people that I have flown with do so. However, when you get some NUT JOB like they arrested last week you may see new efforts to stop R/C near public areas.

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Old 10-09-2011, 03:07 PM   #3
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I don't see where this could lead to a band on RC flying
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:22 PM   #4
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I'm not talking about the FPV, it the autonomous planes I'm talking about. Whats going to happen if one of these Autonomous planes crash and injure someone?? Who is going to confess that their drone crashed and injured kids at the park? Then there will be a public outcry that our hobby in endangering the public at large There will be no differentiating between the LOS, FPV & Autonomous hobbist in the public eye.
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Big Johnny View Post
I'm not talking about the FPV, it the autonomous planes I'm talking about. Whats going to happen if one of these Autonomous planes crash and injure someone?? Who is going to confess that their drone crashed and injured kids at the park? Then there will be a public outcry that our hobby in endangering the public at large There will be no differentiating between the LOS, FPV & Autonomous hobbist in the public eye.
I think it will happen and will harm our sport
1/2 of those out there will be carefull and the rest will Ruin our Sport,,,
the FBI has already shown their willing to throw us out with the bathwater bubsteve

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Old 10-09-2011, 03:31 PM   #6
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ok got your point... Well maybe something like a tag (serial number) on plane or digital input from transceiver an receiver once linked with together would be auto stored an can be retrieved from the plane (kinda like a black box) then the owner tracked down using kinda the same system they use for firearms. Just an ideal !
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:37 PM   #7
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I'd hate to go through that just to fly a little foam plane once in a while. Seems to me the costs of any kind of tagging would be paid by the plane's owner, as well as the paperwork and restrictions.

It irritates me that the future of the hobby hangs on the whims of a handful of fools.

Tom
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:15 PM   #8
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I understand your frustration, especially if you have been in the sport/hobby a long time... Myself I am just returning back to it, something i used to do when i was a teenager now i am 38 its a all new ball game... things have advanced way beyond what i once flew as a kid. Kinda brings me to my point here, cant stop change its going to happen. The drones will come an the problem is you cant fix stupid either. The few irresponsible ones will make the sport/hobby more restrictive in some way i am sure. I know its impossible to get people to organize nowadays but to make it less restrictive online petitions organized by hobby shops an forums would be the only low attempt in helping make it less restrictive.
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:39 PM   #9
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In a few years we'll be playing golf if this keeps up,,,bubsteve

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Old 10-09-2011, 08:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
In a few years we'll be playing golf if this keeps up,,,bubsteve
and them some moron will try to buy explosive to pack into a golf ball with the intent of hitting the white house and they'll ban golf too...

I really don't see how any of this will get us banned.

You can use a cell phone to detonate a bomb, phones aren't banned. you can pack explosives into Ryder trucks and blow up federal buildings but they did not ban Ryder trucks. You can put a bomb in a backpack and place it in a garbage can during the Olympics and they didn't ban backpacks, garbage cans, or the Olympics.

Point is evil people will always find a way to be evil, just a fact of life.

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Old 10-09-2011, 09:54 PM   #11
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The day they ban RC flying, they better ban alcohol. That kills people every day, and it's sold at drive through windows.

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Old 10-09-2011, 10:22 PM   #12
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If we suffer from 'real'terrorists - like that relativelyclueless idiot arrested recently - and equally clueless hobby buyers with no regards for safety, we could really be in danger of losing much of our beloved hobby.

Forget that cars and trucks can - and have - been used against innocents. Unless you really think the US would inflict any restrictions on auto vehicles... Guns - superb devices for killing people. But no danger of control there - the NRA has a huge budget ands owns enough politicians to ensure no gun ownerwill ever have a problem with enforced strict rules of restricted ownership.

Model aircraft? The AMA does a great job but is very small and overall membership is pretty small. What makes matters worse is the masses of hobby buyers, who won't join the AMA or local club, but don't mind picking up any benefits going.

We need to buck up, read the news and all join in to protect our hobby.

D
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:01 AM   #13
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[QUOTE=Dereck;838280 What makes matters worse is the masses of hobby buyers, who won't join the AMA or local club, but don't mind picking up any benefits going.
D[/QUOTE]

Just curiouse here and do not mean to offend anyone here. I have no intention of joing the AMA or a club at least not in the near future. I am not sure what or any benefits I have picked up or am going to gain by joining? Maybe there is something I do not know about? Just a question from someone new to the hobby.

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
Just curiouse here and do not mean to offend anyone here. I have no intention of joing the AMA or a club at least not in the near future. I am not sure what or any benefits I have picked up or am going to gain by joining? Maybe there is something I do not know about? Just a question from someone new to the hobby.
No problem. This is a debate that pops up every now and again with people arguing strongly from both sides.

The benefit that is being referenced here, is that the AMA is a lobbying group. They use funds generated by it's members, to bribe, er, influence politicians.

So, what's being said, is that all modelers benefit by the work the AMA is doing, but the people who fly rc, and don't join the AMA are receiving this protection, but not sharing the expense.

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Old 10-10-2011, 04:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post
No problem. This is a debate that pops up every now and again with people arguing strongly from both sides.

The benefit that is being referenced here, is that the AMA is a lobbying group. They use funds generated by it's members, to bribe, er, influence politicians.

So, what's being said, is that all modelers benefit by the work the AMA is doing, but the people who fly RC, and don't join the AMA are receiving this protection, but not sharing the expense.
Again I would have ask what "protection?" If you mean from a lawsuit then I would say that is what insurance is for. I guess what I am trying to say is the AMA is just that the Academy of Model Aeronautics, from reading their website I do not see how they come close to a lobbyist group but more of a way for folks to promote RC airplanes as a sport within a club, and set down some guidelines for safe operation of the hobby. Sure I can see in a very small way how they have been at odds about licensing RC Airplanes but they really only can stand on the point that RC Airplanes is a hobby and in reality trying to license "toys" is not in the best interest of the hobby. I hope I am not rambling here but i guess when the poster mentioned taking advantage of the benefits...rubbed me the wrong way as if the AMA were like a form of union and non-union folks did not deserve to enjoy the fruits of the union labor. When I see or know of very little fruits of the AMA. Sorry just my .02 Ok I will stop now because I truly do not wish to "stir the pot"

PS buy the way I think that the idea of the AMA is a good idea because it alows a standard for clubs etc so I am not trying to say the AMA is a total waste either

Happy flying may your crashes be limited and if they are not limited let them be cool.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
When I see or know of very little fruits of the AMA. Sorry just my .02 Ok I will stop now because I truly do not wish to "stir the pot"

PS buy the way I think that the idea of the AMA is a good idea because it alows a standard for clubs etc so I am not trying to say the AMA is a total waste either
I do not disagree. When I spoke with Jay Smith (the editor of the AMA's magazine) at SEFF I said as much to him. I told him, frankly, their PR system sucks.

For example, there we were, at an RC aircraft event, with almost 500 registered pilots, who knows how many unregistered pilots, and I am sure several people who had not yet bought anything RC, but was ready to. There was NO AMA booth. What?!?

He explained the reason for this was, "every registered pilot had to be a member of the AMA to register".

My reply to that was something to the effect of, I bet at least half only had it to go to the show. Because of this, they probably resented the AMA more, because they felt blackmailed into joining the AMA to be able to attend the event.

I said a booth with a good explanation where the money goes would help, or some sort of information about what exactly they've done to help the hobby. Give the guys who paid for this "service" a chance to actually see what it's going towards.

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Old 10-10-2011, 07:57 AM   #17
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My opinion?

The UAV market is about to explode once the FAA gets the regs set up so they can be used in the USA (commercially and for law enforcement/S&R/etc). At that point, hobbyist UAV's will be much more regulated... I doubt those regs will affect regular RC pilots. You'll see less capability in the widely available autopilots and such, but for LOS flying I doubt there will be much change.

FPV pilots will probably have sharper regulations on flying within LOS, however.

This is just my opinion though. I'm a UAV pilot myself. I don't have any issues with hobbyist UAV guys as long as they have common sense and don't do anything stupid.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:47 AM   #18
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What kills me, is how you guys EXPECT to get regulated. It's a sign of how backwards our country has gotten. There's no personal accountability anymore. We punish the group, and let the individual go free. If a guy flies an rc plane in a crime, don't criminalize the plane, punish the individual for the crime committed.

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Old 10-10-2011, 08:33 PM   #19
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One important way to prevent a situation where the government messes up the hobby is to join the AMA. I noticed most of the pilots I hang out with at the park are not members. The AMA works with the FAA and other parts of the government and will likely use some of the dollars they raise to protect the hobby.

I am an amateur radio operator and belong to the ARRL. Over the years various entities have tried to take radio spectrum for ham radio operators (including RC frequencies!) and even the FCC has made outrageous proposals from time-to-time and the ARRL has prevent almost 100% of the bad stuff. In addition the ARRL lobbied and won the right to test members for FCC licenses, regulate their own test criteria and certify teachers & examiners.

Hopefully the hobby industry and the AMA will preserve the hobby.

All who are not members should join. Hey the magazine is pretty nice and you get some critical insurance. As you all know there are many failure modes with RC aircraft. Right now the FAA is trying to work their way into regulating RC flying and the AMA is in open negotiations with them.

So for those of you who are not members:
Why not protect yourself and others with appropriate insurance and an organization to lobby for the preservation of the hobby?


I know of a situation where a guy plowed his plane into the side of a Porsche 911...$8,000 later...

http://www.modelaircraft.org/



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Old 10-10-2011, 08:38 PM   #20
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At 30$ a year for the PPP from AMA even I can afford it!bubsteve
http://www.theparkpilot.org/

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Old 10-10-2011, 11:48 PM   #21
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Default Finally

Americans are NOT panicking over nut cases anymore. About time. When you become a adult you should realize there is ALWAYS a nut case going to do something terrible.

Like the banks to people with mortgages.

Companies going to robotic assembly lines

Computers talking & doing money transactions.

UAVs are a drop in the bucket.

Enjoy life with Fukushima. That is serious forever.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:45 AM   #22
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Perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong. If there were ground floor opportunities in this market, RC hobbyists might make good technicians.

Tom
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Big Johnny View Post
I'm not talking about the FPV, it the autonomous planes I'm talking about. Whats going to happen if one of these Autonomous planes crash and injure someone?? Who is going to confess that their drone crashed and injured kids at the park? Then there will be a public outcry that our hobby in endangering the public at large There will be no differentiating between the LOS, FPV & Autonomous hobbyist in the public eye.
Well, on the other hand, what is going to happen when a model flown in LOS goes out of control and hits someone in a park? It is not just autonomous aircraft but all model aircraft. There have already been autonomous aircraft crashes, fortunately, none have resulted in injury. I wonder how many have been injured by a flying sphere traveling around 80+ and no public out cry from that sort of injury. In my life time I have witnessed 2 people killed by model aircraft and a third who was a friend at another club. We didn't see pylon racing shut down nor the flying fields closed just because these people died as a result of a model aircraft.

I believe autonomous aircraft are just as safe as any other model aircraft when flown in a reasonable controlled behavior by conscientious individuals. However the best intentions can result in deadly consequences.

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Old 10-11-2011, 03:52 PM   #24
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Thumbs up Name ANY sport ????

That is banned because of deaths or severe injuries.

There never has been.

Why ?

The ALMIGHTY profit in every sport is FULLY protected by ALL politicians.

They talk safety. Sure. Stop a sport. Never happen in the USA.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=Fishbonez;838326] I guess what I am trying to say is the AMA is just that the Academy of Model Aeronautics, from reading their website I do not see how they come close to a lobbyist group but more of a way for folks to promote RC airplanes as a sport within a club, and set down some guidelines for safe operation of the hobby. /QUOTE]

The AMA has a paid lobbyist in DC, Mitch Rose. In addition it is the recognized CBO (community based organization) that is dealing with the FAA on upcoming regulations that will affect rc pilots. and recognized by the FAI and the NAA as the representative body for model aircraft in the US.

From the AMA Web site:

"Mitch Rose
President and founder of Mitch Rose Strategic Consulting, Washington, D.C. Mitch Rose is a key lobbyist in Washington, D.C. who understands well how to navigate the halls of federal government on major legislative issues. He is an Anchorage, Alaska native, with degrees from American University’s Washington School of Law and the University of Washington. Rose’s career includes stops at The Walt Disney Company as vice president of government relations and as the chief of staff for U.S. Senator Ted Stevens. Some of the clients Mitch Rose Strategic Consulting has served include the National Cable and Telecommunications Association, Comcast, The Motion Picture Association of America, the Recording Industry Association of America, and the National Business Aviation Association of America."

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