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Delta & Flying Wings Discuss electric powered delta (flying wing) style aircraft here.

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Old 10-23-2011, 09:36 AM   #1
Davethebluessinger
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Default Best motor and prop combo for a Mini Swift

Hi,
I've asked this question before but never really got an answer so I'll try again!
I'm looking for a motor for my MS Mini Swift flying Wing.
I'm currently running a Turnigy park 250 on 500mAh 7.2V 2s lipo with 6x5 prop but I find it's only just got enough power for decent Aerobatics. All up weight including the flight battery and motor is 220 grams.
I'm looking at the Turnigy park 300 as it's available in the UK.
I can't really increase the size of the prop as I've already cut away foam to accomodate the 6" prop. I'd be grateful for any suggestions on a motor/prop combo - it doesn't have to be a Turnigy I'm happy with any outrunner that will give it some more grunt!

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Old 10-24-2011, 03:28 AM   #2
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I would say something in the one ounce / 1700kV ballpark. This one from HobbyKing, perhaps.

Your best bet may be to move up to a 3S.

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Old 10-24-2011, 05:36 AM   #3
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Default Rocket Motor

here you go Dave this motor has thick windings and will take a lot of abuse I use them up to 20+ amps and 220 Watts and they love it, cut the prop shaft down so the Prop adapter fits snug against the bell.

motor
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...cro_Motor.html

ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ontroller.html

Lipo
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...poly_Pack.html

prop
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...propeller.html

OR APC 6x5.5


prop adapter
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Type_3MM.html




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likesValueUNRATED QualityUNRATED 13 thumbs up!This motor rocks!!! it pushes my park jet like a park rocket and for $7 u cant go wrong

Here is my friend Kosh with one of these micro motors and a 7x6 APC prop


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Old 10-24-2011, 10:07 AM   #4
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That's a lotta motor for a seven-ounce plane, Chellie!

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Old 10-24-2011, 12:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
That's a lotta motor for a seven-ounce plane, Chellie!
Naaa, Its only 30 grams more weight I Like to Over power my planes

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Old 10-24-2011, 01:00 PM   #6
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Default

or you can use a Emax 1812 motor on 3 cells

MS Composit Mini Swift EPP Flying Wing, 21 Inch Wingspan, EMAX 1812 BL Motor, EMAX 12A ESC, HXT600 Servos and Tipple Loong-Max 20C 500mah 3S Lipo. Excellent Flying Wing for Novice to Advanced Pilots. Available at www.HobbyFlyer.com


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Old 10-24-2011, 08:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
I Like to Over power my planes
I have noticed.

That 1812 sounds more like what I was recommending. Somewhere around 1oz of decent motor spinning around 1700kV or so.

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Old 10-25-2011, 12:37 PM   #8
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Hi,
It sounds strange that you use a Turnigy park 250 on 500mAh 7.2V 2s lipo with 6x5 prop and do not get enough power!
It as almost the same setup that I have.
I have a Hacker SkyFighter Wing and that is almost exactly the same.
Wingspan ca: 54cm (21.25 inch)
Weight ca: 130 gram ( 4.58 ounces)
I use 14g Turnigy Park250 Brushless Outrunner 2200kv.
The heavier motor you have the harder it is to get the CG right.
For this motor I use Hobbyking SS Series 15-18A ESC and an APC 6x5.5E or APC5.1X4.5 (get a bit hot with APC 6x5.5E, but fast :-) )
Running this setup with 2s 850mAh 25C or 3s 500mAh 35C for faster speed.
I am no expert on flying wings, this is my first one but vertical speed with no limit is what I get from this setup.
Flying any faster with this little wing will make it hard to controle.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:38 PM   #9
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Hi,
i'm running a park250 now with an apc 6 x 5 prop but on 2S I think the wing is underpowered.

EFlight Mini Pulse XT, Durafly Dynamic S, Scratch Built 52" Pushycat, HK 330 Edge Profile, HK Mini Spirit, Thunder Tiger EHawk 1500.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Davethebluessinger View Post
Hi,
i'm running a park250 now with an apc 6 x 5 prop but on 2S I think the wing is underpowered.
What KV do you have.
I have run mine with 2s 500mAh 20C with the Turnigy park 250 2200kv motor and have no problem.
I used a Tiger Motor T1804 2250kv 14g before and that worked ok to but I wanted more speed thats wy I tryed the Turnigy park 250 2200kv.
I will try to remember to check the waight on mine when I get home from work.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:18 AM   #11
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Hi, I have the 2200kv version. Your all up weight may be less than mine as I've added 2 2mm carbon spars and some LEDs covered with packing tape on the leading edge for night flying (see attached picture). It flies OK but it just seems to lack power when climbing out and rolling. The big swift I have will barrel roll extremely rapidly whereas the mini seems to struggle. Everyone is telling me to go up to a 3s but the Park 250 won't handle that voltage. I'm seriously thinking of installing a park 300 1380kv and upping the prop to an 8 x 6 to see if that helps. it means cutting more of the elevons away but given how responsive the mini swift is I don't think that would be an issue.
NOTE the picture shows a different motor and prop setup that I had when I first built the wing!


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Old 10-26-2011, 10:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Davethebluessinger View Post
Hi, I have the 2200kv version. Your all up weight may be less than mine as I've added 2 2mm carbon spars and some LEDs covered with packing tape on the leading edge for night flying (see attached picture). It flies OK but it just seems to lack power when climbing out and rolling. The big swift I have will barrel roll extremely rapidly whereas the mini seems to struggle. Everyone is telling me to go up to a 3s but the Park 250 won't handle that voltage. I'm seriously thinking of installing a park 300 1380kv and upping the prop to an 8 x 6 to see if that helps. it means cutting more of the elevons away but given how responsive the mini swift is I don't think that would be an issue.
NOTE the picture shows a different motor and prop setup that I had when I first built the wing!
an 8x6 prop is way way to big for that wing, you need to get a smaller prop spinning faster, a larger prop will cause a horrible torque roll, the wing is to small, 3 cells and a 5x5 or 6x5 prop will do the job for you, you have to get away from 2 cells, to have any performance

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Old 10-26-2011, 01:14 PM   #13
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Thanks Chellie,
How about this motor with a 3s? http://www.giantcod.co.uk/epower-bl1...-p-403157.html

Or this? http://www.giantcod.co.uk/towerpro-b...-p-406433.html

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Old 10-27-2011, 04:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Davethebluessinger View Post
I would use the BL1812 motor, the 2408-21 is a good motor, but prone to breaking wires, I have to add epoxy at where the wires come out of the motor to keep vibration from breaking the wires, also on the 2408-21, the motor likes to spin on the raidial motor mount, you have to loosen the radial motor mount , pull it off, add epoxy and put it back together to make them live, if not, the motor will spin in the mount and pull and break the wires, ask me how i know this Take care, Chellie

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Old 10-28-2011, 12:32 AM   #15
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It depends a bit on if you are willing to gamble with the motor .
As I said I have run the http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14399 on 3s 500mAh many times but not on full throttle for several minutes at the time.
But I think something else is wrong and as Chellie said, higher kv and smaller prop if you want speed.
Big prop will make the wing turn (or even roll) if you go full throttle to quick.

I have unlimited vertical power even on 2s 850mAh and it rolls very quick to.
Loop are olmost around its own axis.

On the other hand.......... What you think is slow and powerless is maybe very fast for me as I am not the very best RC pilot and this is my first Wing.

I also have a Deprone F-22 Raptor like this

with a 50 gram 2200 kv brushless and 3s 2200mAh. It is pretty fast and outruns some of my friends HobbyKing EDF jets.
But my HackerWing is faster with the Park 250 in my earlier message.

I have to glue the Wing a bit after yesterdays flight.
Did some quick 10 -12 rolls in an row and dropped my concentration. Went dovn hard and got a crack almost all through the wing on one side.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:29 PM   #16
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Hi Davethebluessinger,
Just checked my wing on the scale.
112 gram without the LiPo so all up flying weight around 156 gram with 3s 500mAh and 158 gram with 2s 850 mAh Lipo.
That is 100 gram lower than your Mini Swift Wing so I can understand the difference in power in the air.
I will cut tha weight down 5 gram more by changing the 8 gram "FrSky TFR6 7ch 2.4Ghz FASST Receiver" to a "FrSky TFR4 4ch 2.4Ghz Surface/Air Receiver FASST Compatible" without the case.

By the way... I am not using any CF spar through the wing on mine. It is so lite so I feel it does not matter. I think maybe the wing flex a bit but not to much.
The biggest problem is the ailerons, they flex to much in high speed. Maybe I will try to make new balsa ailerons.

This my first Wing made me really hooked on Wings. I am thinking on bying a 1000 mm HK Combat & Slope Soaring Wing (EPP Foam / CF tube) Kit and se how fast I kan make it.
I have noticed that the problem with wings are that they are very short, that makes it difficult having a to heavy motor. With a heavy motor the LiPo needs to be further to the front but due to that the front is so close to motor the LiPo needs to be bigger to get the CG right and then the weight increases.

I also found this great instruction on Flying Wing Tuning by Mathew Wellington that helped me alot getting my wing to fly god both in level Flight and inverted.

I cut like 3mm peaces of fuel tubing and put that on each screw between the motor and the motor mount.
So now I can change the angle of the motor by tightening or losening the screws. Works well on all my indoor foamies to.
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:15 AM   #17
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here is what a small prop and high kv motor will do for a small wing

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28242


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Old 11-01-2011, 10:22 AM   #18
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Thanks for all of the help guys.
I think I'm going to move up to a 3S battery and the motor Chellie recommended.
I've found an alternative use for my 500mah 2S cells.....
Take a look here!
Got one each for me and my mate - first run tomorrow at the club!

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Old 01-27-2012, 10:28 AM   #19
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Default Help - Mini Swift - no steering!!!

OK so I moved up to the motor Chellie recommended, replaced the ESC with an 18A and bought a couple of Turnigy 500mAh 3S Lipos, I stayed with the 6 x 5 prop. Then the weather turned and I never got to fly the wing again - til yesterday.
In the lay off I also changed my radio from a DX6i to a DX7se. I transferred all of my settings for Delta,Travel, DR and Expo directly across (manually). I checked elevon function and all is correct.
Initially on launch it just wanted to climb vertically, I figured it may be tail heavy with the new larger motor so I added quite a bit of downthrust to get it to fly somewhere near level. It launches OK and responds to up and down elevator (still nosing up in flight tho) but aileron inputs have little or no effect and it's impossible to control.
My questions are:
Have I added too much downthrust?
Should I reduce the downthrust and add more nose weight?
Is the uprated system generating too much prop torque - Do I need to go down in prop size?
I'd really like to get the little wing up and running cos the sun is out and there's a park with a nice piece of Astroturf across the road from work!!!

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:08 PM   #20
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Just sounds like it's still tail heavy so try this first, Tape some coins to the nose and make it nose heavy then try it again. One you find the correct amount of weight to be added replace the coins with some lead in the foam. Or you could try a bigger battery in place of the coins and your prop size should be OK.

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Davethebluessinger View Post
OK so I moved up to the motor Chellie recommended, replaced the ESC with an 18A and bought a couple of Turnigy 500mAh 3S Lipos, I stayed with the 6 x 5 prop. Then the weather turned and I never got to fly the wing again - til yesterday.
In the lay off I also changed my radio from a DX6i to a DX7se. I transferred all of my settings for Delta,Travel, DR and Expo directly across (manually). I checked elevon function and all is correct.
Initially on launch it just wanted to climb vertically, I figured it may be tail heavy with the new larger motor so I added quite a bit of downthrust to get it to fly somewhere near level. It launches OK and responds to up and down elevator (still nosing up in flight tho) but aileron inputs have little or no effect and it's impossible to control.
My questions are:
Have I added too much downthrust?
Should I reduce the downthrust and add more nose weight?
Is the uprated system generating too much prop torque - Do I need to go down in prop size?
I'd really like to get the little wing up and running cos the sun is out and there's a park with a nice piece of Astroturf across the road from work!!!
Sounds like to me that you dont have enough throw on your ailerons, make sure they deflect 45degrees in both directions from neutral, check your CG, put it at 25% back from the wings leading edge, check the Incidence of the main wing and stabilizer, make sure they are 0-0 incidence or level with one another and are level with the centerline of the plane, 3 to 5 degrees down thrust wont hurt a thing, it will allow you to fly in heavy wind, if all those things are ok, that plane should fly Great., hope that helps, Chellie




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Old 01-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #22
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Hi Kosh

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:14 PM   #23
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Hey, Looks like we posted at the same time

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Kosh View Post
Hey, Looks like we posted at the same time
Whats new with you Kosh

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:20 PM   #25
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Dave, try a smaller Dia prop, a 5x5 apc might work better than a 6x5 you just have to try different things untill you find the sweet spot and it all comes together

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