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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 10-29-2011, 11:58 PM   #1
pattern14
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Default Hobbyking He 162

Being primarily a scratchbuilder, buying something like this would not even be considered, until very recently. The strength of the Aussie dollar has made the bargain prices from HK even more economical, and I did have an ulterior motive in using the He 162 kit as a "3D" plan so as to make one from EPP. For $75.00, I could not even buy a block of EPP foam for that. Tasmania is wonderful to live in, but EVERYTHING is shipped in, as nothing is manufactured here, and the rip-off Australia postal service has a monopoly on prices. A couple of years back I saw one advertised by "Starmax", and I suspect there may have been a thread somewhere on it (maybe R/C groups?), and so assumed it was a HK clone. It turned out to be the starmax one, so I can only surmise that HK is the distributor, or recieved a shipment of them. Either way, it arrive boxed up from the warehouse a couple of weeeks back. The biggest surprise was the scale like appearence; it really does look identical to the real thing. I'm trying really hard to be objective about this plane, as I am normally quite cynical about ARF's and such ie; parkzone, alpha etc, and usually refer to them as flying eggshells. This one looks like it would disintegrate if you dropped itbeer cooler crap foam, no wing spar(!!!!!), the tail looks like it would snap on the first landing, and the asssociated hardware looks decidely fragile. Nothing like a challenge.......the first thing I did was to remove all the electrics and replace them with quality items. Then I balanced the EDF unit, which vibrated like a harley on first test run, but ended up being quite smooth from mid range on, after I had pulled the impellor on and off countless times, moving it in increments. The 40 amp esc replaced the stock item ( the manual stated 25 amps, the esc said 30 on the cover?), and made it interchangeable with my GWS 64mm unit which is much more effficent. I'll try the stock unit first just to see how it goes. Next was to remove the front servo and linkages for the nose wheel, and take out the cheap and nasty looking battery hatch. It will be a belly lander/handlauncher, so I'll be saving weight and drag on the whole undercarriage thing any way. That gave me ample room to hollow out the front area of the cockpit for a bigger battery, and use the battery hatch to house the ESC. The mock gun ports will be hollowed out to allow air entry around the ESC for cooling. The original placement looks like it would have fried, having no air access what so ever. Its fragility though is my biggest concern.....having had some success with taping the radian wings, and addding cf rods and ribbons gives me hope, as I do regard pz "z" foam as truly miserable. If I keep the weight down to an absolute minimum, tape all the surfaces, including taping the wings and tail on instead of gluing(), and run very lightweight cf along critical stress areas, I might just get away with it. Not crashing would probably help as well. Still, having parts of the plane break off in flight would be keeping with the scale effect anyway. I'm a huge fan of all the luft jets, real, planned, or imagined, but the he 162 is my least favourite. It achieved nothing, killed more pilots than were lost to enemy action, and to the best of my knowledge, was never credited with a single certified victory. It deserves a place in history though, so I'll let you know how it goes....cheers
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:10 AM   #2
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I can't wait to see how this mod goes Michael .
A fragile ( in your own words) airframe for starters of a suspect full sized aircraft. Now that's a challenge as if your weather conditions weren't bad enough!!!
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:20 AM   #3
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Default a glimmer of hope

HeyBarry; I forgot to mention that the padddock next door is full of 3 feet high oatsSo I have my own built in crash pad. Much more forgiving than opium poppiies.........cheers
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
HeyBarry; I forgot to mention that the padddock next door is full of 3 feet high oatsSo I have my own built in crash pad. Much more forgiving than opium poppiies.........cheers
Now that sounds like a purpose made He 162 testing facility.
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:06 PM   #5
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I read the RCG thread on the Starmax He162. Everyone who had one crashed, or that's how the thread read. One big problem appeared to be that due to the high thrust line the plane pitches down with power and pitches up when you cut power. Probably best to avoid rapid throttle movement until you get used to it.

Nice looking model though, good luck with it.

Steve
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:57 AM   #6
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Default test glides and structural issues

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I read the RCG thread on the Starmax He162. Everyone who had one crashed, or that's how the thread read. One big problem appeared to be that due to the high thrust line the plane pitches down with power and pitches up when you cut power. Probably best to avoid rapid throttle movement until you get used to it.

Nice looking model though, good luck with it.

Steve
Hi Steve; I read the same thread, plus one I found on WF that Bill G started some time back. To date, I have scratchbuilt 5 edf's with a dorsal mounted unit, 3 experimentals, and two semi scale. Only one of the experimentals flew (I use it on my avatar), but it was kind of cheating as the 7 foot span sailplane would have flown without it in a decent wind anyway. The edf unit merely got it up to where the thermals were. The semi scale luft 46 DaimlerBenz "Amerika Bomber" flew very well; twin tail, swept wings, very good quality edf running on 4s, all EPP etc etc. It gave me a pretty good appreciation of the quirks of above fuse mounted edf's; Landing upside down in a dam on a sub zero winters day is not recommended though I also used a similar power plant mated to a vectored thrust unit to power my Arado Ar 234 twin pusher while I sorted out the airframe. This one is a totally different kettle of fish: Got it together yesterday, with all suspect areas taped, and pre-flight checks in order. The field of oats are up to my waist, so you would assume it would provide the most forgiving of landing surfaces, stepping on tiger snakes being the only real hazard. The first test glide into the 15 knot breeze was gentle enough, but cracked the downturned port wingtip on landing (must be tough oats) The next one snapped off one of the twin vertical stabs (more tape.....) and the final test glide under 1/2 power showed it tracking true and level before landing atop the green at a moderate speed, pulling off one wing:.....This is one seriously weak model, and one that will need some serious attention if it is going to last any more than a couple of landings. Still,as you noted Steve, it is a nice looking plane. The real thing fell apart in flight, wings came adrift, and tails snapped off, so I am obviously on the right track.....more later, cheers
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:03 AM   #7
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Default some success

Had a moderately successfull flight about 1/2 an hour ago. Spent some time putting in a hollow tube CF spar right on the leading edge, by boring a hole through the very front of the recess that the wing root butts into the fuse at. A 55 cm CF spar was slid through to equal lengths on both sides, and the LE of both wings cut back enough to accomodate it. I taped the spar to the wings, giving a very stiff and robust fit. Packing tape was applied to the nose and belly as well. Keeping it light is a major factor. I then reduced the aileron throw to its minimum in an attempt to tame the twitchyness. If I waited for the wind to subside it would never get a flight, as spring is quite blustery at best. So with some nervousness, I checked all was well, and handlaunched into the wind. Surprisingly, she flew quite stable, until the first turn, where it displayed that horrible tendency to simply roll and fall sideways. High enough to save her, it was a bit tricky using minimal input to get her tracking OK, but I completed 3 circuits of the paddock before attempting to land. It was not at all rough by my usual standards, but still broke the right horizontal stab off on contact. I'll try CF ribbon on the tail feathers tonight, but I can see a coreflute one being made very soon. Even balsa is tougher than this crap foam...... Still, I now know it flies ok, and the potential for a decent plane is actually there
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:01 AM   #8
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Default success upon success......

Hard to believe , but this unlikely contender has turned out to be the dark horse of all time. The wild weather finally calmed, and I was able to try her out in moderate wind, with almost no gusts. Finally got the COG correct ( much further back than the instructions stated ), and made some minor tweaks to the trimming. Handlaunching needed some rethinking, requiring me to launch upwards instead of level, due to the down thrust of the edf on full power. Works really well every time now; I expected it just stall initially Once up it flies very well, with snap rolls and tight turns devoid of tip stalls. The final approach as a glide is the most surprising, as it comes in very gracefully into a head wind, and lands nice and light ( with a little practice ) In the last day I have flown this one 9 times, with only one mild mishap ( more tape.....), and feel far more confident with it. I guess all the time spent learning on the Me 262 really helped, as this plane was a lot quicker to get the hang of. Looks like I'll persevere with the design after all. Nothing like being proved wrong is there....more later, cheers
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:38 AM   #9
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Default another one bites the dust......

Practically gauranteed, it only took one good nose in to decimate this one. Had it flying pretty well, doing loops and rolls, flying inverted etc, etc. The small size, and drab colours, make it easy to disorientate, and that is exactly what happened. AND it missed the shoulder high oatflield, and ploughed (no pun intended) into the hard ground on the far side. There were not enough bits left to justify even plugging in the hot glue gun. The difference in foam between EPP and this ARF stuff is measured in light years. My Komet or Junkers just would have bounced..........It's very unlikely that I would get another one, but I made all the measurements, cut out some blanks, and eventually will make a combat ready version next year. On to the next project, cheers....
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:26 PM   #10
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Sounds similar to what I did with the plane Michael. I read the "Harley" smooth fan comments. I don't how anyone expects to get a well built plane for $75, out of the box. I would have replaced all the gear also.

I bought one as a kit, back when they were expensive. At the current price, they are a deal. You're right, their ESC setup would not stand a chance, in an EDF. I don't know why they wouldn't add a cheater into the nacelle, that vents the fuselage. That way both the ESC and the battery can be cooled, which is what I did with it, and also used a GWS EDF64 fan.

Sorry to hear about the loss. I quit flying mine, as the plane was seemingly "jinxed". It's not a bad flyer at all, but I got tired of the repairs. The maiden started with attempting flight with an inferior battery. Don't ask how it found the one tree in the area, when I should have just grounded it, within the first few seconds. Had a second really good flight, which still managed to crack a few things, even with a fairly good landing. Just lost interest.


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Old 11-12-2011, 07:48 AM   #11
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Hi Bill, good to hear from you. The plane really did show potential, but the fragility was the killer; no amount of CF or packing tape seemed to help. I was honestly surprised at its flight capabilities, once it was sorted; it's just a shame it broke every time it landed. Who knows, for $75.00 maybe it might be worth trying again, using fibreglass and WBPU, and some judicial use of coreflute. maybe next year..... cheers
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:57 AM   #12
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Sorry to hear of the crash. This keeps up the track record of this model. I've yet to come across anyone on a forum who didn't crash this He162, if not on the maiden within a few flights Almost makes me want to get one to see if i can buck the trend!
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:01 PM   #13
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One of our club members had this one. Upgraded the fan and put in retracts. Don't know how many flights he had on it, but at our club's edf fly-in, it was flying along, then we heard a pop, and then could hear the motor speed up, and down she went. We all thought the fan came off the motor. When he recovered what was left(Wait for it!) he found the fan was intact. He thinks the canopy came loose and got sucked flat on the intake. Anyways, the funny part is, the only significant piece left was the area around the main landing gear that he beefed up. Everything else just disintigrated!

As an airplane fanatic though, I find this plane a fascinating subject and would love to have one. If only there was a more durable (But still affordable) model out there.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Sorry to hear of the crash. This keeps up the track record of this model. I've yet to come across anyone on a forum who didn't crash this He162, if not on the maiden within a few flights Almost makes me want to get one to see if i can buck the trend!
Hi Steve; sounds like a good Idea if you can get one as cheap as I did. I did the forensic thing, like they do when some lunatic blows up an airliner, and pieced it back together again. The clear packing tape really held it together for about 25 flights, but I had removed all of it prior to the last crash, so I could sand the exterior, quarter it and use the pieces to make templates for an EPP and coreflute version ( sort of a 3d plan). The total destruction came with the bare foam final flight. Apart from that, it flew surprisingly well, and actually glided much better than expected, as it is very scale. One made from balsa and silkspan would be a great project, as you could make it very light to aid performance. I'll stick to the EPP version that I started on though. I had more success with this one than the FW 182 Huckbein, but true EDF success is still being very elusive. If nothing else, the He 162 gave me incentive to keep trying...cheers
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
One of our club members had this one. Upgraded the fan and put in retracts. Don't know how many flights he had on it, but at our club's edf fly-in, it was flying along, then we heard a pop, and then could hear the motor speed up, and down she went. We all thought the fan came off the motor. When he recovered what was left(Wait for it!) he found the fan was intact. He thinks the canopy came loose and got sucked flat on the intake. Anyways, the funny part is, the only significant piece left was the area around the main landing gear that he beefed up. Everything else just disintigrated!

As an airplane fanatic though, I find this plane a fascinating subject and would love to have one. If only there was a more durable (But still affordable) model out there.
Sucked in the canopy I guess that would do it. The foam quality is the worst I have ever seen, and I suspect it the same grade as the white styro they put around white goods in the cardboard covering. Very stiff and brittle, with almost no give at all. Even the softest landing would crack the tail feathers. They are an intriguing plane though, and one that might have achieved something given more development. If you are not into scratchbuilding, there must be a better quality kit or ARF out there somewhere.........
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:55 AM   #16
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Default more than one life......

Just when I thought this thread would die a natural death, it suddenly occurred to me to try the swept wing version I saw in one of my Luft 46 books. I still had the wings from the defunct Huckbein, so I cut and shaped them a little. With the painstaking jigsaw puzzle that was the remains of the original, I pieced it back together again ( the tail was in 12 pieces, and the nose/cockpit about 400 pieces). I ended up just making a whole new nose from my bag of scrap EPP; close enough to hold a battery and ESC etc. The wingroots were cut out with a stanley knife and razor saw, and the one piece EPP swept wings simply slid into position. It was probably sheer luck, but they fitted almost perfectly, following the contour of the airfoil very closely. The EDF nacelle was least damaged, so was easily repaired, but there is enough airframe left now to try a couple of test flights. If you are pigheaded enough, most things are fixable (if not pretty) The coreflute tail feathers will go on if the thing flies 1/2 way reasonable. All going well, I'll have a camera in a couple of days so I can finally post some pic's again. I have a good first impression of this risen from the ashes phoenix, so lets see how it goes....more later, cheers
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:37 AM   #17
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Hi Michael, your tenacity just has to be seen to be believed but you are so right ; the struggle to get the improbable to actually fly well ( or at all) is all part of the huge satisfaction (and fun) which drives experimentation.
I can't wait to see how the swept wing version performs. Fingers crossed

Barry
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:07 PM   #18
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Default getting there.....

Hi Barry good to hear from you. Managed to put this one together faster than I thought, using existing bits out of my ever growing spares collection. All those crashes have their upside. Still bone ugly, and needing a cosmetic surgeon, but only a couple of hours of work left before it can be test flown. Looking at it's maiden tomorrow morning, all going well. After months of not having a camera, I'l be finally able to start putting up pic's again. Looks rough, but form has to follow function......next post should be interesting........
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:13 AM   #19
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Default so much for that.....

My luck had to run out sometime. Got her together with the swept wings, trimmed and sorted. Launched into a stiff breeez on full power, and away she went...great.....for about 5 seconds that is. The motor changed pitch immediately, stalled, rolled over and dived nose first into a pile of rocks that had just been cleared from a neighbouring paddock. The wings survived, but the shattered/repaired/shattered etc fuse was totalled. The fan had exploded, with bits of impellor all through the wrecked nacelle, which explained the sudden change in pitch and loss of thrust. Oh well, what did I expect. the upside is that all the electrics are fine, and likewise the servo's etc, so I fully intend to buy another one why they are so cheap, and totally pull it apart, strengthen and lighten, and try again. It flew so well against all expectations that it is worth another go. Nothing like learning from your mistakes. Plus I'll build a fully EPP one as well Stay tuned for next year when I try againcheers
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:26 AM   #20
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Oh, no!

I'll stay tuned for version II.

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Old 12-20-2011, 02:19 PM   #21
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Wow! I knew that those early jets were inclined to blow up or catch fire but don't you think that this is taking realism just a shade too far Micheal?
Seriously, I'm sorry to hear of the motor issue and the resultant crash. I hope you have much better luck with Mk II.

Barry
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:55 AM   #22
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Default 0n its' way.....

ordered, paid for, and on its way.....be afraid, be very afraid
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:52 PM   #23
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I heard about the pitch issue, and wondered if it was anything like an incident I had once. I had a fan explode, and I'm convinced that that it momentarily locked up which caused a brown out due to voltage drop. There really was no other explanation as to why the plane dove as if it had full elevator down input. It should have just been an unpowered glider, which is the way it is always landed anyway. The lesson learned was to never accept any imbalances in a fan, as it had one of those harmonic vibrations in the rpm range. Repaired the nose and it's still a flyer, but it really ticks you off when it is only the 3rd flight or so.

The 162 does fly well, as you commented on Michael. I remember when it came out, there were a number of comments about high roll rates and tip stalling. I'm convinced that they were just guesses, from people that hadn't flown it. Not a difficult plane to fly at all.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:05 AM   #24
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Well Michael I just got in, after making a friend's day. I stopped by and gave him my Starmax HE162 receiver ready with TBird36 ESC and still useable 3s-1800 EVO batt, and he was thrilled to death. He had recently cut his transmitter thumb pretty badly, so it will be a few before he gets it in the air. He's a good and ambitious pilot though, so I'm a bit worried that the delay may end up being only about 12 hours, and that he'll put it up in the air tomorrow. He hasn't been on here lately, but I think he goes by "ubhistory". I hope the plane doesn't end up that way, as well as your new one also. Good luck with your new one.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:11 AM   #25
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Hey Bill, great to hear from you. Always good when you can share your spares with other pilots. The cut tx thumb sounds interesting; my right thumb is still pretty scarred from the Me 262...guess when I'm old I'll get arthritis in it I'm glad someone else is persevering with one of these; even though they were something of a dead end, I have noticed that the latest generation of unmanned drones look suspiciously like a direct descendent. I did not really intend to get another one, but for $75.00, I could not get a block of EPP for that, let alone the time cutting and shaping. If it had been a bad flier I would not have persevered, but it does cut a very distinct profile in the sky. I'll be waiting to hear how he gets on with his.....good luck to his maiden, cheers.....


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