Electric is intimidating!

[jetsmell]

I flew nitro planes twenty years ago, this hobby was so simple then. Now I'm getting back in, pretty darn impressed with the advancement in the technology, especially the radios,wow, what they can do now. I want to go electric, but I just can't grasp the concept. It may not be that critical when I start, because the first planes will be RTF. I also want a FMA Cell Pro ( haven't decided which one yet ) but later on when I buy the kits, It could get ugly. Just saying , the amps, mah's , volts are all intimidating to me, is it just me ? I'll continue to read and try to absorb , but so far it's not working.

[gramps2161]

I don't know if you found this link yet, but it will answer all your questions, and more. It is confusing at first with the electric power you have so many more options on your setups to choose from and what you want for power.
This is a great place to ask questions and get answer's real friendly group here that are more than willing to help out.

Selecting Electric Power Systems -

[Leadchucker]

Originally Posted by jetsmell

..... is it just me ? ....

Yea, it's you.
Just kidding, it does take a while but before you know it out of the middle of the blue sky you will have an epiphany. You'll be techno-babbling about maHs,ESCs,LVCOs,KVs,C rates,cell counts,watts,amps,shaft collets and so on with the best of them. Keep the faith,it will come to you.

[slipstick]

It's just something different you need to learn a bit about...and there are loads of people around here willing to help.

I bet you weren't born understanding all those nitro things like main and idle needle settings, nitro content, oil percentage, glow plug heat ranges, fuel tank connections, starters etc....electric isn't really harder it's just different .

Steve

[xmech2k]

I feel your pain, Jetsmell! After a few years of this, I thought I got batterries figured out, but recently learned some new things thanks to my edf upgrade.

It's the motors that still stump me, but that's the manufacturer's fault, mostly. It seems each mfgr has their own method of rating or naming their motors! On that edf upgrade, I was just looking for a motor, but resorted to a motor/fan combo I found almost entirely due to the fact that they simply had a chart that lists all the pertinent details: amp/watt draw, thrust, etc.

It can be intimidating. Luckily there are plenty of smart people around here who are willing to share their knowledge and experience.

[firemanbill]

Originally Posted by jetsmell

I flew nitro planes twenty years ago, this hobby was so simple then. Now I'm getting back in, pretty darn impressed with the advancement in the technology, especially the radios,wow, what they can do now. I want to go electric, but I just can't grasp the concept. It may not be that critical when I start, because the first planes will be RTF. I also want a FMA Cell Pro ( haven't decided which one yet ) but later on when I buy the kits, It could get ugly. Just saying , the amps, mah's , volts are all intimidating to me, is it just me ? I'll continue to read and try to absorb , but so far it's not working.

I started out electric and grasped it pretty well. I've gotten into some glow stuff over the years and tuning those rascals is getting the better of me! I just don't understand it all, low end, top end, mixes, what percentage of oil in the fuel, what percent nitro to get... so many variables...

This is what makes this hobby so great! There are so many aspects of it that if you are willing to experiment a little you never get bored with it.. EVER!

Good luck with your electric andventure and let me know if I can help in any way!

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by jetsmell

I flew nitro planes twenty years ago, this hobby was so simple then. Now I'm getting back in, pretty darn impressed with the advancement in the technology, especially the radios,wow, what they can do now. I want to go electric, but I just can't grasp the concept. It may not be that critical when I start, because the first planes will be RTF. I also want a FMA Cell Pro ( haven't decided which one yet ) but later on when I buy the kits, It could get ugly. Just saying , the amps, mah's , volts are all intimidating to me, is it just me ? I'll continue to read and try to absorb , but so far it's not working.

What size nitros??

If you've flown 60-70 sized glow 4strokers, take a look at the first thread below to see what's involved in electrifying this size model.

As for the giant scale models, IMHO, its not a good idea to start one of these til you've got a lot of experience (read $$$$) behind you.

The Showtime 50 model setup far outperforms a Showtime 50 model setup with a 4 stroke 70 glow engine. That electric version will fly straight up at full power, and go out of sight straight up.

Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

Hacker 6S2P A123 powered Models
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686


Carl Goldburg Extra 330 Electric Conversion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59273

Giant Scale electric motors vs Gasoline Engines
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58035

Some info here on those electronic terms.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52821

And the first 4 or 5 pages of the attached PDF file in this thread covers volts, amps, watts, horsepower and the like.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45173


Let us know if you've got questions.

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by jetsmell

I flew nitro planes twenty years ago, this hobby was so simple then. Now I'm getting back in, pretty darn impressed with the advancement in the technology, especially the radios,wow, what they can do now. I want to go electric, but I just can't grasp the concept. It may not be that critical when I start, because the first planes will be RTF. I also want a FMA Cell Pro ( haven't decided which one yet ) but later on when I buy the kits, It could get ugly. Just saying , the amps, mah's , volts are all intimidating to me, is it just me ? I'll continue to read and try to absorb , but so far it's not working.

Electric is intimidating!

Yes it is at First, it took me over 1 year to get a good grasp on it, I am comfortable with Electrics now, but at First i almost gave up on it, i flew glow for many years, here is what I do now, its works great for me.

1. use the biggest motor that will fit into the cowel that way you will always have pleanty of power and not have to add any nose weight.
2. use a ESC thats at least 20% bigger than what the motor calls for, it will last longer and stay cooler because its not working right at its limits.
3. use a UBEC if using 2.4 or if you have 3 or more servos
4. use a lipo thats has a 25C or Larger C Rating
5. Always use a Wattmeter, it will save your pocket book and your power system.
6. keep asking Questions here, thats what we are here for, we all live for this sheet we are consumed by it we dont have a life its all about Electrons thats all we dream about nobody understands us we find ourselfs talking to ourselfs about e power the glue fumes help to calm us a little and we shake like crazy when we do a maiden flight Dont you just love E Power RC Flight LOL

[NJSwede]

Electric intimidating? Not after all the dead sticks and choked up, sputtering IC engines I saw at the field today.

But seriously, there's a lot to learn, but it's not insurmountable. I got into this a year ago and I'm still learning, but it's not black magic like it seemed in the beginning. Chellie's suggestions are excellent. You also need to get acquainted with things like C-ratings and amp draws. Some basic understanding of ohms law and the power law (P=V*I) also helps.

[monokote]

I spent half my life in electronics and it took me over a year to get a grasp on brushless motors.Picking the right motor is not easy.A lot of thought and research has to be done.Hang in there.

[tampaflyer]

its a new language, you will get it. it is A LOT more versitile than nitro too. ever wish you had just a bit more motor? electrics adapt easier .. and Nitro can be converted to electric too.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by NJSwede

Electric intimidating? Not after all the dead sticks and choked up, sputtering IC engines I saw at the field today.

Yup
Yesterday, a club member was trying to maiden a new Sbach model with a one year old DLE 30 gasser in it. First flight, engine quit right after take off, landed on the edge of the field, bent the landing gear flat. Bent the LG back were it was.

Second flight, engine quit after about a minute of running, landed on the edge of the field, bent the LG again. Bent the LG back. Again.

Third flight, engine quit right after take off, landed in the plowed field, busted a brand new $$$$ prop, bent up the LG again.

And, the pilot is one of our most knowledgeable members with gassers. He thinks he will replace the carb on the engine.

PROPERLY setup, electrics simply don't do that.

[CHELLIE]

What gave me the Biggest Problems were the Lipos in trying to find the proper amp rating and capacity for a given motor and plane, second thing that gave me fits were trying to find a proper lipo charger and balancer, i started about 5 years ago and the lipo chargers were not what they are now, I started with a Triton charger and a hyperon balancer, that thing gave me fits it really was not the chargers fault, I did not have a powerful enough power supply to run it, and the charger kept setting codes, then the balancer had to be set in a sequence before it would work I hated that charger assy then i got a good Astro flight 109 Charger and a Blinky Balancer, the 109 is not a balance charger, its a older design that works well with a seperate Balancer, now they have balance chargers like the Cell Pro that balance and charge lipos, that was Half the battle, is learning how to properly charge lipos in a safe manner, second thing that gave me fits were trying to get a matched power system and learning how much thrust and speed it would give me, that was the really hard part, I Found heads Up Rc web store to be a great help when starting out, Jeff at Heads up Rc has already done all of the work, he has motor combos with amp draw, watts, esc size and recomended lipo size and thrust info and speed info with a given prop, this information is a Must have for the Newby starting out with e power, you can also e mail Jeff and he will suggest a balanced power system for a given plane and weight, I have learned a lot from Jeffs web sight, and use his motors, esc and lipos as well as others, the info can be applied to other motors of similar size and KV, here is an example of the info on Jeffs web site. its very very valuable info as it also tells you what planes it will work on, Hope that helps, Chellie

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...80-Plus/Detail

Power Up 480 Plus Outrunner Brushless Motor

SKU: E-570
Price: $25.95
This item is in stock
Quantity:





















The Power Up 480 Plusis a 3.6 ounce 1000KV outrunner brushless motor that is equivalent in power to .20 to .25 two stroke glow engines. It will produce up to 55 ounces of thrust when using a 3 cell Lipo battery and the APC 11x5.5E prop. This motor includes an X mount and prop adapter!

3.5mm male connectors come installed on this motor, and extra 3.5mm female and male connectors are available, sold separately in our store. The Power Up480 Plus is a good choice for many large parkflyers, such as the GWS Formosa II, Great Planes Super Sportster, Eflite Mini Ultra Stick, Eflite Extra 260, Eflite Ultimate 20-300, Eflite Mini Showtime, Hyperion Cessna Bird Dog, Parkzone T-28 Trojan, Parkzone F4U Corsair, Multiplex Acro Master and many others.

We recommend using a 35 to 50 amp Electronic Speed Control (ESC) with this motor. A very good low cost choice is the EZ Flite 50A ESC.
Good battery choices for the Power Up480 Plus would be any of our 3 cell 2200 mah to 3300 mah Lipos. One of our favorites for this motor is the EZ Flite 11.1v 2200 35C.

MOUNTING OPTIONS: The Power Up480 Plus includes an X mount that makes it easy to mount in front of a firewall. A 4mm Prop Adapter is included for mounting props. If you need to mount the motor BEHIND a firewall, we suggest that you consider the 3536-10 motor, as it is similar in size and performance, but the shaft extends from the base of the motor.

Propeller test data using a 3-cell Lipo battery:

Rotating propellers are dangerous. Please stay clear of prop and wear eye protection.
TP 11 x 5.5E: 55 oz thrust at 30 amps. Good choice for sport flying and 3D models.
APC 11 x 7E: 55 oz thrust at 35 amps (380 watts) with a pitch speed of 55 mph.
TP 10 x 5E: 46 oz thrust at 25 amps.
APC 10 x 7E: 46 oz thrust at 29 amps with a pitch speed of 59 mph.
Master Airscrew 10 x 7 x 3-blade: 55 oz thrust at 33 amps with a pitch speed of 57 mph.
GWS HD1080: 42 oz thrust at 35 amps (380 watts) with a pitch speed of 63 mph.
APC 10 x 10E: 37 oz thrust at 37 amps (400 watts) with a pitch speed of 76 mph. Can be used for high speed on sleek models, but avoid constant wide open throttle.
TP 9 x 6E: 37 oz thrust at 22 amps.
APC 9 x 9E: 32 oz thrust at 32 amps with a pitch speed of 75 mph.
Propeller test data using a 4-cell Lipo battery:
TP 8 x 4E: 40 oz thrust at 23 amps (340 watts) with a pitch speed of 51 mph
TP 8 x 6E: 41 oz thrust at 31 amps (460 watts) with a pitch speed of 68 mph. Exceeds recommended maximum watts.
APC 9 x 4.5E: 57 oz thrust at 28 amps (420 watts) with a pitch speed of 53 mph. Exceeds recommended maximum watts.
Please be aware that the battery used can make a tremendous amount of difference in the performance of brushless motors. The above data was obtained using batteries in good condition that were fully charged. Thrust and amp draw may be less with the use of batteries rated at lower amp output, and slightly more using batteries rated for higher amp output.
Power Up 480 Plus Specifications:
Weight = 3.6 ounces (102 grams)
Diameter = 1.4 inch (35 mm)
Motor length = 1.4 inch (35 mm)
Shaft = 5mm x 0.6 inch
Voltage = 9 - 17 (3 or 4 cell Lipo batteries)
Current = maximum of 35 amps for 60 seconds
Watts = maximum of 380 watts for 60 seconds
KV = 1000
Mounting holes are spaced 19mm and 25mm on center and are tapped for 3mm screws.
Please visit theHeads Up RC Brushless Motor Guidefor help in deciding whether this is the best motor for your plane.

[jetsmell]

Everyone here has been so helpful. I don't know what I would do without this forum. Maybe some day , I'll be able to help someone too. Many thanks !

[Dereck]

Originally Posted by jetsmell

I flew nitro planes twenty years ago, this hobby was so simple then. Now I'm getting back in, pretty darn impressed with the advancement in the technology, especially the radios,wow, what they can do now. I want to go electric, but I just can't grasp the concept. It may not be that critical when I start, because the first planes will be RTF. I also want a FMA Cell Pro ( haven't decided which one yet ) but later on when I buy the kits, It could get ugly. Just saying , the amps, mah's , volts are all intimidating to me, is it just me ? I'll continue to read and try to absorb , but so far it's not working.

Don't get too excited. If you want to go out and fly, if you can this time of year, pick an often built (or bought...) model, get the stuff the manufacturer recomends, build or assemble it and go fly.

A lot of the confustication comes from package recomendations. The manufacturer recomends a motor, etc. About 90% of the wannabe buyers want someone to hand them the exact spec of a $5.00 replacement motor direct from BlobbySpend, Chingville. Every one of the fifty or so cheap crappy motors that might be able to do the job has a supporter, whether the garbage works or not.

Start point for you - the FMA Cellpro charger. Get the 'Gold' - it only charges Lipo and A123 - your post suggests you aren't into nimh or any other string of letters. Four cell batteries are fine for regular and somewhat capable sports aerobatics and as long as you stay under 4000mA battery capacity, you will get decently fast recharges from FMA's Cellpro on 4S packs.

Disclaimer - it's all I use, as going to bigger packs just costs a horrible lot more. My two 4S impelled 50-ish inch span aerobatics can tear up the skies just fine for me, while one of next year's new designs will be for smaller capacity 3S LiPo or A123 packs and down around 45" span.

The basic e-flight buy is a model, motor/ESC, batteries - having but one pack per model will drive you nutty and you'll never learn all your model's potential like that anyway. Support is a charger and some way of powering it. My favourite, when I had a house plus garage, was a couple of chargers, each with a hefty power supply (12V car battery charger, for dual usage as I'm inherently tight) and a 100AH deep cycle RV lead acid battery for field recharging.

Now, living in a condo with no secure garage of my own, there's re-thinking under way, though I suspect I won't be able to live without my field recharging battery.

After that, get a multi-meter - a cheapy from the Telephone (Radio )Shack will do, a tacho and a 'Wattmeter' - if you don't buy one, the penalty for a 'lean run' on an electric model can be a lot of fried expensive stuff, so one is an essential.

I don't do h-a-a-a-rd sums over power plants nor buy many of them. I either ask a couple of good, yet tolerant friends who can do Hard Sums, or build my next model to suit whatever drivetrain I have in the previous model. Always go for quality over cheap junk from China - I have motors over ten years old that still deliver, and I demand much from them on the way.

If you are an aeromodeller and can build, look around the conversion threads. Sig's new little Four Star 20 is a fine example of a Sunday flying aerobat and is well covered online for all sorts of hints. Modern laser cut kits are prolific and will give you the satisfaction of building your own model vice some BARF from China, with great performance. Again, most of those manufacturers offer hints on, or sell motors etc to match.

On batteries - every lipo on the planet is produced in China. Give in, go to Hobby King's US warehouse and buy their cheap midrange LiPos - one has to give in to the inevitable at times. On the same track - China manufacturers rip off themselves as much as the rest of the world, so don't buy those cheap 'bargains'.

A good, proven model design doesn't care what's spinning the prop. Once you're flying, take a deep breath and see how complicated you want to make your life

Good luck, and welcome back. Aeromodelling never leaves 'lifers' alone

Dereck

[tampaflyer]

simply, get an eflight or electrifly plane and put in it what they want.. you wont be disappointed. then get with other electric flyers and see what they use and works.

[Azarr]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

Yup

PROPERLY setup, electrics simply don't do that.

Neither do properly set up glow/gas.

Azarr

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Azarr

Neither do properly set up glow/gas.

Azarr

LOL
But, when you compare the number of electric motor dead stick landings against the number of glow/gasser engine dead stick landings at our field over the past flying season - -

[Dereck]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

LOL
But, when you compare the number of electric motor dead stick landings against the number of glow/gasser engine dead stick landings at our field over the past flying season - -

'Dead stick landing' ought to be in everyone's 'Flight Reference Cards', regardless of power.

When I was taught to fly, one of several conditions my instructor made prior to putting his flying time to my benefit, was that once I had some level of competency, he'd teach me all about deadstick, as it happens. Glow obviously then - model aircraft sized electricity hadn't been invented, yet alone sold cheap at the shopping mall.

Simply, he'd watch me fly around, then walk up to me, announce I'd gone deadstick and all would have a laugh. My part was to kill the motor and land on the runway after making appropriate calls. He had a marvellous sense of timing for giving me this order at precisely the place I could make it down properly from too.

Okay, I was usually sweating, but he never pushed me too far. Pretty far, not t-o-o-o far...

So I did what my instructor told me, and it worked. Another tip from Kevin was to fly two or three practice circuits at the end of every flight. I got the bug to where I still often take off and do nothing for a flight but 'pound the pattern'.

Wherever you are now Kevin - thank you very much. How many of my models his instructional techniques saved has to be considerable.

After all, landing is not only the hardest maneuvre in flight, it's also the only compulsory one
(think about that if needed )

Regards
Dereck

[flydiver]

There certainly are threads and some sites that help you figure out how to get into electric. For a really great overview of the process of picking a power setup for a plane from scratch from a podcast, download and listen to #207 (that's a direct link) of All Things That Fly (site link).
There's about 15" of banter in the beginning before they get into the main content.
This is done primarily by Lucien Miller who is one of the main tech guys for Scorpion Motors. He's got a background in electrical engineering and been in the sport for decades.
Anyone not already soaked in the info and data is likely to learn something from this broadcast.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Dereck

'Dead stick landing' ought to be in everyone's 'Flight Reference Cards', regardless of power.

Yeah
I had a dead stick landing on a maiden flight early this year due to an attack of dumbitius. Seems the model was flown with default settings in the CC ESC. And when the ESC cut power completely off due to cold weather on the A123 pack, it's dead stick time.

Since the motor was so quiet, didn't know I had a power failure. After landing in a plowed field, it took a week to repair the damage to the model.

FYI, ALL of my ESC's are programmed to "Soft Shutdown" on low battery power.