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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:05 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
Doing a bit of research and I am thinking that the motor I have a freewing 4300kv Brushless Outrunner may not be able to handle 4s. Possibly the magic smoke Teach would love to see however I am not interested in smoking this little gem yet. Does anyone have any suggestions for a 4s EDF motor for a 64mm price? Well let me rephrase that one that does not cost more than the plane. IE Cyclone holy cow they are pricey LOL
I'm gonna stick my neck out here ad say :

I reckon most motors for 55 - 64mm EDF's are 4S capable. I run my 50 and 64mm EDF's on both 3 and 4S ... they survive ....

I would agree that life maybe a bit shorter - but we are not talking days / hours - we are still talking months etc.

What you do have to be careful of - is that the ESC can actually take 4S .. not only for motor - but step it down for Rx ... many so-called 4S ESC's are very poor on the Rx side. So I usually fit a separate BEC and disconnect the ESC red servo plug lead.

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Old 08-29-2012, 12:31 AM   #127
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Thanks Nigel. The ESC does have a BEC in it do you think I should add another BEC?
This is the actual ESC currently in the plane.

e-flite 40 amp lite pro switch-mode BEC brushless ESC

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Old 08-29-2012, 01:43 PM   #128
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Off topic,

But as I leave Denver today, Fish? you must have had some nice flying weather up in Cheyenne the last few days if it was like anything in Denver.

Envious ! Hope to get to my field tomorrow

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Old 08-29-2012, 02:07 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
Thanks Nigel. The ESC does have a BEC in it do you think I should add another BEC?
This is the actual ESC currently in the plane.

e-flite 40 amp lite pro switch-mode BEC brushless ESC
If it really is Switch Mode .. then no I would stick with the inbuilt BEC.

can you see the label on it ? I checked online and it says capable of up to 6S LiPo and BEC suitable ...

Only question now is the amps draw with a 4S on your motor / DF combo .. is the 40A enough.

Personally ..... I'd go for it !! But then that's me ..

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Old 08-30-2012, 02:44 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
If it really is Switch Mode .. then no I would stick with the inbuilt BEC.

can you see the label on it ? I checked online and it says capable of up to 6S LiPo and BEC suitable ...

Only question now is the amps draw with a 4S on your motor / DF combo .. is the 40A enough.

Personally ..... I'd go for it !! But then that's me ..

Nigel
Thanks again Nigel.
I think you are right and I am going to go for it. Just need to find time to get the timing programming with the ESC. I have been able to get it to 3/4 throttle but need to keep trying. The manual for the ESC is a bit confusing. Most of the time I am not sure what portion of the program menu I am in and did I save the change. I am going to try to got the LHS on Friday there is a possible RC Airplane Guru there and he may be able to help me get the programming correct.



Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Off topic,

But as I leave Denver today, Fish? you must have had some nice flying weather up in Cheyenne the last few days if it was like anything in Denver.

Envious ! Hope to get to my field tomorrow
Well we did hawk Monday was a beautiful day for flying and enjoyed it tremendously. Tuesday and Wednesday were hot and rainy in the afternoon but great in the evening but work kept me away from the field. One of the clues summer is ending and winter is coming is the beautiful one month of fall we have here in "Ole Wyo"

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Old 08-30-2012, 07:30 AM   #131
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When it comes to programming ... by Tx Stick ... I always do one at a time .. set one parameter, save, exit. Power up again and set next one.

I find it difficult to try and set more than 1 or 2 in same session.

Best of all of course is the Programming card ... I stick with ESC's that match the Turnigy Card ... so easy !!

Comment - I never touch timing - leaving as default ... seems to work for me ...

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Old 08-31-2012, 01:11 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
set one parameter, save, exit. Power up again and set next one.

I find it difficult to try and set more than 1 or 2 in same session.

Best of all of course is the Programming card ... I stick with ESC's that match the Turnigy Card ... so easy !!


Nigel
This is where I am confused I think. I can not figure out how to save and exit

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Old 08-31-2012, 05:46 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
This is where I am confused I think. I can not figure out how to save and exit
Just read through the manual for the ESC - boy that's an expensive ESC !!

To save - you move the throttle stick to half throttle or less from the full throttle position when you hear the item you want.
To exit - just disconnect power. When you repower - all should be as you selected.

I would suggest getting a program card if possible - once you have one - you wonder how you managed without.

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Old 08-31-2012, 07:47 PM   #134
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Well I'm back from Nags Head and ready to start on my Stinger this weekend. I picked up a Castle 75 ICE Light ESC so I can run 4S without worrying about heat. What I am worried about is the motor, I don't know if it can stand 4S but I guess I'll find out. I plan to build it stock first and have some 1800 3S batteries to get it set up and flying, should fly OK on those.

About the programming card, I agree with solentlife you really will find programming a lot easier. I use the default settings on most of the stuff I build but on my high performance planes it is really nice to be able to change the ESC perameters like timing for maximum performance.

So, off to clean up the workbench and get things ready, wish me luck..

By the way solentlife we have some ex Brits here in my area. They are hard to spot though because they look like regular people and they speak English, cagey devils..

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Old 08-31-2012, 08:07 PM   #135
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Default Finally got it

Well I got it!!!!!
As it turned out it was not a timing issue at all but a switching frequency problem. As I was reading up on different motors for EDFs and some help understanding from a guru at the LHS I learned a little bit about ESC switch freqs. Apparently a 3s uses 8khz and a 4s is 16khz and so on. So I went back to the manual for my esc and learned that change is made in menu 6 and made that change. Oh and learned that all you have to do is just disconect the battery to save the changes. Tried it out and she spooled up and ran like a "Grape Ape." Now the only thing left to do is take her out. Intend to try it this evening or maybe first thing tomorrow.
Stay tuned. Cant wait!!!

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Old 08-31-2012, 08:12 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by TopSpin View Post
Well I'm back from Nags Head and ready to start on my Stinger this weekend. I picked up a Castle 75 ICE Light ESC so I can run 4S without worrying about heat. What I am worried about is the motor, I don't know if it can stand 4S but I guess I'll find out. I plan to build it stock first and have some 1800 3S batteries to get it set up and flying, should fly OK on those.

About the programming card, I agree with solentlife you really will find programming a lot easier. I use the default settings on most of the stuff I build but on my high performance planes it is really nice to be able to change the ESC perameters like timing for maximum performance.

So, off to clean up the workbench and get things ready, wish me luck..

By the way solentlife we have some ex Brits here in my area. They are hard to spot though because they look like regular people and they speak English, cagey devils..

Top Spin you do not need any luck. You are going to love this plane and with a 70amp ESC you are really going o dig it with no worries. However good luck anyway and cant wait to hear and read you opinions of this plane

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Old 08-31-2012, 08:24 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
Top Spin you do not need any luck. You are going to love this plane and with a 70amp ESC you are really going o dig it with no worries. However good luck anyway and cant wait to hear and read you opinions of this plane
Thanks I can't wait. Been flying for many years but this is my first EDF so I suppose I have to learn how to fly it. solentlife had some good advice about keeping the turns open and large straight runs. That makes good sense so I'll remember that. By the way, have you ever put a watt meter on your Stinger?

I have a watts up meter and will check it but I was just curious what to expect since I really am planning to go 4S on this baby as soon as I get some flights under my belt. I'll provide video of the maiden no matter what happens.

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Old 08-31-2012, 08:32 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by TopSpin View Post
Thanks I can't wait. Been flying for many years but this is my first EDF so I suppose I have to learn how to fly it. solentlife had some good advice about keeping the turns open and large straight runs. That makes good sense so I'll remember that.

That is good advice and really helps when she is at top speed making turns a lot less scary but wont take long before you realize that she cam almost turn on a dime

Originally Posted by TopSpin View Post
By the way, have you ever put a watt meter on your Stinger?
I have a watts up meter and will check it but I was just curious what to expect since I really am planning to go 4S on this baby as soon as I get some flights under my belt. I'll provide video of the maiden no matter what happens.
No I have not. Need to purchse one each time I go looking it seems they are sold out and I end up purchasing something else

Lookig forward to the video good or bad and I am sure it will be good

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Old 08-31-2012, 09:18 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
That is good advice and really helps when she is at top speed making turns a lot less scary but wont take long before you realize that she cam almost turn on a dime



No I have not. Need to purchse one each time I go looking it seems they are sold out and I end up purchasing something else

Lookig forward to the video good or bad and I am sure it will be good
Well I am not a big fan of Hobby King by any stretch but they do have a very good watt meter at a good price, you should look into one. I think it is about $30.00 which is about 25 less than a Watts Up meter and the specs are almost identical.

So I got the bench cleared and will be laying out the parts in the morning. Should have it ready to fly by Sunday.

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Old 08-31-2012, 09:21 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by TopSpin View Post
Should have it ready to fly by Sunday.
Saturday! Saturday! LOL

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Old 09-01-2012, 03:27 AM   #141
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Top Spin,

I have the HK-010 Power analyzer but have not hooked it up yet. Very good price.

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Old 09-01-2012, 03:50 AM   #142
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Smile Success well sorta

Well believe it or not this is a picture of success. Yep it looks real bad but let me start from the beginning. On 4s the Stinger is a beast. let me start from the beginning. HOLY COW. I had my friend Gary give her a toss, now on 3s and 10 mph wind a gradual climb to speed an altitude, on 4s and 10mph instant vertical like a rocket. I think my first words were Holy CHIT!!! Speed and altitude were nearly instant. Quickly came about and headed downwind and slow downed to 3/4 throttle. I would estimate speed was at 90mph which is about full speed on a 3s, back into the wind and no speed loss. She was booking and loving every minute. Came about again downwind and jumped up to full throttle. WOW speed was mad crazy I could not estimate it because if I blinked it was out of site. Now for the bad news. In my excitement to try the Stinger out on 4s I forgot to hit the timer. Doah!! Once I realized I was way beyond LVC it was to late, I attempted to coast into the wind for a glide landing but it was too late it stalled and fell like a brick. Carnage is fixable and I will begin tonight. The battery was really puffed and when I say puffed I mean twice the size of original size and hot to the touch. . Once I returned to the truck I checked the cells of the battery and 4 cells were way beyond 3.5 volts. Now I have to decide if the default setting of 75% LVC on the ESC changed or did something draw to many amps or did the crash cause the puffing. Don't know until I try again. I need to do some research to see what I can figure out about the swelling of the battery to see if the motor drawing to many amps but need a wattmeter to figure that out. Could the c rating of the battery to low 25-50c I believe
Great time cant wait to do it all again


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Old 09-01-2012, 07:19 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
That is good advice and really helps when she is at top speed making turns a lot less scary but wont take long before you realize that she cam almost turn on a dime
EDF's don't have the advantage of prop airflow and means that if she slows in a turn due to drag, there's nothing to help you. But once you get to know your model ... and if you can power it well - then you'll know how tight you can pull her. My 50mm T45 being 0.93 to 1 on 3S, and 1.22 to 1 on 4S - I can literally stand her on wingtip and pull full up to turn ... how the wings put up with it I don't know !!

No I have not. Need to purchse one each time I go looking it seems they are sold out and I end up purchasing something else
With EDF's it's even more important to get a meter ... with it you can determine best combination ESC / motor / fan / battery ... you can calculate run-time ... as well as check all your LiPo's for charge, balance etc. The Wattmeter is far more than just a power tool. Along with my B6 charger - it's the most used tool I have ...
I use it on the field to check batterys before and after use ...
I use it every time I charge to check battery before and after ....
Any change of motor / ESC etc. - it gets used to check set-up.

If it just saves you one Lipo from puffing / overloading - it's saved its cost already.

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Old 09-01-2012, 07:28 AM   #144
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25-50C .... sounds like a Nanotech ......... UGH !!

I don't know anyone I fly with who uses them anymore ... they've all had trouble with them.
I was given a 4S 3000 25-50C Nano for the F16 70mm .... Tried it in my smaller T45 64mm ......... it was useless ... it puffed, it was hot ... it was gutless. My usual 3S 2100 35C was much better.

Anyway - you need a Wattmeter ... like another says - HK and various do reasonable ones at good prices ...

Mines a "TRAKKER" Wattmeter and got it on Ebay for about $25 couple years ago ... Only thing I've had to do is replace the fly lead for the balance board. Personally I reckon it would be better if they did away with that and fitted the balance sockets to the actual box.

Get one ... especially playing around with 3S / 4S ... the amp draw on 4S goes UP significantly ....

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Old 09-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #145
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+1 on the demise of the Nano's. I've lost faith in them. The heli guys at our field have for the most part gone with Gens Ace. Thye's using large packs. Unfortunately, Gens Ace is alomost always out of stock. My Zippy's perform as well as the my Nano's.

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Old 09-01-2012, 02:44 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
+1 on the demise of the Nano's. I've lost faith in them. The heli guys at our field have for the most part gone with Gens Ace. Thye's using large packs. Unfortunately, Gens Ace is alomost always out of stock. My Zippy's perform as well as the my Nano's.
I agree since I had four Nanotech batteries go bad within a week. I quit buying them and now prefer Hyperion or Thunder Power. I know they cost a lot but they are workhorses and always deliver rated current without a huge drop in voltage like the Nano's.

By the way I finished the Stinger last night so all I have to do today is connect the receiver and figure out how to get the battery farther forward. Any help on balancing would be appreciated since it seems like the battery has to be stuck in the nose.

Also, I glued the horizontal and vertical stab so I wounder if removing the screws (several of which didn't seem to bite) would change the CG? again any help would be appreciated.

Fishbonez, I'm going to put the watt meter on it first thing after I bind the receiver and I'll let you know what it does on 3S and 4S at WOT.

We are getting the remnants of Hurricane Isaac today and tomorrow so it's windy and drizzling. I may have to wait till Monday or Tuesday to maiden but I will get the video on here.

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Old 09-01-2012, 06:19 PM   #147
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Don't be surprised when you see the 4S Amps go a lot higher !

For anyone interested here's my calcualtion for MAX run-time at full throttle ... using Wattmeter readings.

LiPo mAh / 1000 = X

Wattmeter Amps reading for WOT = Y

X / Y * 60 = total time in minutes to ZERO Z

So run-time calc becomes : (assuming you want to keep eg 35% in the LiPo)

Z * 0.65 = minutes

Just thought someone might be interested .......

Nigel

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Old 09-01-2012, 07:27 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Don't be surprised when you see the 4S Amps go a lot higher !

For anyone interested here's my calcualtion for MAX run-time at full throttle ... using Wattmeter readings.

LiPo mAh / 1000 = X

Wattmeter Amps reading for WOT = Y

X / Y * 60 = total time in minutes to ZERO Z

So run-time calc becomes : (assuming you want to keep eg 35% in the LiPo)

Z * 0.65 = minutes

Just thought someone might be interested .......

Nigel
Thank you Nigel that is good to know especially since I am hesitant to use the stock ESC on 4S. I have the plane all finished and went to put my watt meter on it when I discovered I have a connector problem. I have Power Pole connectors on my watt meter and Deans connectors on my plane and batteries. I just ordered 4 pairs of deans from Tower so they should be here by Wednesday at the latest. This is really frustrating because I thought I still had several pairs but I forgot I used them on two of my ESC's for another project.

I promised Fishbonez that I would give him the numbers so as soon as I get the adaptors soldered up I will post the results and the runtime using your formula.

Thanks again for the info Nigel..

John.

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Old 09-01-2012, 08:29 PM   #149
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Wow surprised at the "don't like nano tech". My 3s 1800 mah are some of my best batteries. Any how...Nigel thanks for that formula. I am going to refer to that often. Just one dumb question I am assuming LiPo mAh / 1000 = X, means mah divided by 1000 equals X? Just wanted to be sure I understood. I am going to go to the LHS and see if they have a watt meter there. I know I can get one in cheaper online but sometimes the LHS helps me out with some of my dumb questions and this how I repay the favor.

TopSpin, take your time no rush. I want you to have the best experience with this plane you can get. I can wait. In fact it might restore some of your trust with HK LOL Just joshing because you can also buy this plane at Hobby-lobby and bannahobby. I cant help but really plug this plane or the Jolly Roger F86 from hobby-lobby as a first time EDF because trust me when I say if I can fly this plane anyone can fly this plane . It is just so much fun.

Nigel and Dahawk you need to get one as well, like yesterday

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Old 09-01-2012, 08:52 PM   #150
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I ran one of my 64mm EDF's just to get some numbers. Since the KV and motor size are a bit different this should not be representative of the Stinger. I used an 1800mah 3S 40C battery and a Thunderbird 36 ESC.

Using Nigels formula I get:

X=1.8
Y=33 (amps)

X/Y=.0545 * 60=3.27 minutes (Z) at WOT and .65*Z=2.1 minutes WOT.

Since I don't fly wide open all the time I expect this number should be somewhere around 3 minutes using an 1800mah 3S 40C battery. Not bad at all and with 4S possibly longer since I should be able to throttle back a good bit more and still fly at good speed.

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