Setup help Guys !!

[Doclove524]

I am interested in the Katana 5oe ARF. The plane says it has a 60" wing span and flying weight of 2100g. That is only like 4.5lbs right? This seems light to me for a 60" plane?? Anyone have this plane? I also what to be able to hover with this plane on a 5s set up. Having trouble coming up with a motor, ESC, prop combo that will hover easily on 5s. Specially cause I am questioning the weight advertised for this plane.. Want to buy soon so any help would be appriciated!!!


Thanks,
Mark

[CNY_Dave]

Google does conversions fairly well:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2100+grams+in+pounds

4.63 lbs.

The one I googled says:
Weight: 79-80 oz (2200-2275 g), so maybe more like 5 lbs.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

I am interested in the Katana 5oe ARF. The plane says it has a 60" wing span and flying weight of 2100g. That is only like 4.5lbs right? This seems light to me for a 60" plane?? Anyone have this plane? I also what to be able to hover with this plane on a 5s set up. Having trouble coming up with a motor, ESC, prop combo that will hover easily on 5s. Specially cause I am questioning the weight advertised for this plane.. Want to buy soon so any help would be appriciated!!!


Thanks,
Mark

If you've not put together kilowatt sized models, the following might be a little help:
Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

Hacker 6S2P A123 powered Models
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686


Also, check out one of those computer RC programs such as www.motocalc.com, free for 30 days, then $39. This program will allow you to select a motor/battery/prop combination along with the weight and wingspan of your model, and give an opinion on how it will fly. It will also warn against running to much power through your motor/esc/battery, and give an opinion on whether it will "Hover" or not.

Good luck!

As for me, I'm well known for using those $$$$ Hacker motors, they have accurate specifications for motocalc, and will perform per their specifications without burning up. (And that does convert to 4.62 pounds.)

One very good Hacker selection is the Hacker A40-10L. It's a real power house. I once flew an 8 pound P51 model with mine, it really hauled it off the ground. Still got the P51, still got the A40-10L after 4 years flying with them. Motocalc suggests this motor will turn a 14X10 prop at about 7800 RPM, pulling about 980 watts on a good quality 3500 Mah LiPo. That's about 56 Amps at 17 Volts. Prop thrust is 134 ounces, but that's been about 15% high, methinks motocalc doesn't allow for prop drag from the prop blast hitting the wing, landing gear and so on. That's three pounds more thrust than your model weighs.

You could also check out the various Hacker A50 series motors in motocalc. They are more weight though when you include both the motor and the batteries. I've got three A50's, two A50-12S and one A50-16S. Flawless operation after hundreds of flights on each of them.

Note that cell count and prop size on these electric powered models can be real critical. Going up one cell on your LiPo pack can easily wind up doubling the watts going through your motor. Same with the prop diameter. It would be wise to pick up one of those wattmeters such as Astroflights wattmeter. A lot of sources now sell these units.

[Doclove524]

Ok I have determined that he planes flying weight will be right around the 5lb mark. I am looking at a motor that is 410kv running on 5s and max power being 1310w. So in you pros opinion.. using a 14x8 prop (open to a better suggestion on prop size) will this set up allow me to hover this plane??

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Ok I have determined that he planes flying weight will be right around the 5lb mark. I am looking at a motor that is 410kv running on 5s and max power being 1310w. So in you pros opinion.. using a 14x8 prop (open to a better suggestion on prop size) will this set up allow me to hover this plane??

We need more information on exactly which motor you're planning on using. Problem is, the efficiency of those motors can vary widely depending on its quality. That can make a notable difference on how fast that motor will turn your 14X8 prop.

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

We need more information on exactly which motor you're planning on using. Problem is, the efficiency of those motors can vary widely depending on its quality. That can make a notable difference on how fast that motor will turn your 14X8 prop.

This is a Turnigy SK3-4250-410

Specs.
Turns: 12T
Voltage: 4~5S Lipoly
RPM/V: 410kv
Internal resistance: 0.026 Ohm
Max Loading: 55A
Max Power: 1310W
Shaft Dia: 5.0mm
Weight: 260g
Motor Plug: 3.5mm Bullet

Kv (rpm/v)410Weight (g)260Max Current (A)55Resistance (mh)26Max Voltage (V)19Power(W)
1310

Thanks for your help kyleservicetech!!!

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

This is a Turnigy SK3-4250-410

Specs.
Turns: 12T
Voltage: 4~5S Lipoly
RPM/V: 410kv
Internal resistance: 0.026 Ohm
Max Loading: 55A
Max Power: 1310W
Shaft Dia: 5.0mm
Weight: 260g
Motor Plug: 3.5mm Bullet

Kv (rpm/v)410Weight (g)260Max Current (A)55Resistance (mh)26Max Voltage (V)19Power(W)
1310

Thanks for your help kyleservicetech!!!

According to Motocalc.com, your 14 inch diameter prop won't pull enough current out of that motor running on 5 LiPo cells. You might have to go to a 15X10 or even a 16X10 prop. Your motor has a 5 mm prop shaft, or about 0.19 inches. Swinging a 16 inch diameter prop on a shaft that small in diameter might wind up bending the shaft if your prop ever touches the ground.

Motocalc predicts 140 ounces of prop thrust on a 16X10 prop setup, but I've found that the motocalc figures tend to run about 20% high or so.

Just a note, Turnigy rates this motor at 1310 watts. Using the figure of 100 watts per ounce of motor weight, that comes out to 142 watts per ounce of motor weight. The motor might run pretty hot during hovering.

Hope that helps

DennyV

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

According to Motocalc.com, your 14 inch diameter prop won't pull enough current out of that motor running on 5 LiPo cells. You might have to go to a 15X10 or even a 16X10 prop. Your motor has a 5 mm prop shaft, or about 0.19 inches. Swinging a 16 inch diameter prop on a shaft that small in diameter might wind up bending the shaft if your prop ever touches the ground.

Motocalc predicts 140 ounces of prop thrust on a 16X10 prop setup, but I've found that the motocalc figures tend to run about 20% high or so.

Just a note, Turnigy rates this motor at 1310 watts. Using the figure of 100 watts per ounce of motor weight, that comes out to 142 watts per ounce of motor weight. The motor might run pretty hot during hovering.

Hope that helps

DennyV

Thanks Denny...
What are your thoughts on the below. Says 2800g of pull on a 14x10 prop on 5s lipo. Plane is supposed to be 2100g. Says its for 3D airplane weighin 2000g - 2500g.. This is another turnigy motor the 4250-580kv

Dimension: 49mm x 43mm, 68mm(with shaft)
Weight: 196g (kv580) (not including connectors)
Diameter of shaft: 5mm
Length of front shaft: 19.5mm
Lamination thickness: .2mm
Magnet type: 45SH

Max performance
Voltage: 4-5S Max current: 33~45A/20S

Prop: 13x8~14x10
Pull: 2100~2800g For 2000-2500g 3D airplane.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Thanks Denny...
What are your thoughts on the below. Says 2800g of pull on a 14x10 prop on 5s lipo. Plane is supposed to be 2100g. Says its for 3D airplane weighin 2000g - 2500g.. This is another turnigy motor the 4250-580kv

Dimension: 49mm x 43mm, 68mm(with shaft)
Weight: 196g (kv580) (not including connectors)
Diameter of shaft: 5mm
Length of front shaft: 19.5mm
Lamination thickness: .2mm
Magnet type: 45SH

Max performance
Voltage: 4-5S Max current: 33~45A/20S

Prop: 13x8~14x10
Pull: 2100~2800g For 2000-2500g 3D airplane.

I'm not really familiar with the Turnigy motors and as such am a little reluctant to make recommendations with them.

Taking one of those $$$$ Hacker A40-10L motor, a 5 S LiPo pack and a 15X8 APC-E prop would be a nice combination. This motor is rated for up to a 6S LiPo battery.

www.motocalc.com suggests this motor will turn that 15.8 prop at about 7700 RPM, pulling 63 Amps at 17.3 VDC, and 1091 watts. Motor efficiency is predicted at 86%, a pretty good value.

Prop thrust is 163 ounces, with a blade pitch speed of 58 MPH.

I've got a A40-10L motor, and have worked with another club members A40-10L V2 motor. These motors are real $$$$ power houses.

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

I'm not really familiar with the Turnigy motors and as such am a little reluctant to make recommendations with them.

Taking one of those $$$$ Hacker A40-10L motor, a 5 S LiPo pack and a 15X8 APC-E prop would be a nice combination. This motor is rated for up to a 6S LiPo battery.

www.motocalc.com suggests this motor will turn that 15.8 prop at about 7700 RPM, pulling 63 Amps at 17.3 VDC, and 1091 watts. Motor efficiency is predicted at 86%, a pretty good value.

Prop thrust is 163 ounces, with a blade pitch speed of 58 MPH.

I've got a A40-10L motor, and have worked with another club members A40-10L V2 motor. These motors are real $$$$ power houses.

Well if I had an unlimited buget that would be great!! That A40 is big $$$$.
Saw a video of the same plane I am building and the guy was running the A50-14S hacker on 5s and was able to unlimited hover!!! That setup is even a bit to $$$$ for me!! But I may spring for that set up.. Any thoughts on that one and what the correct prop would be??

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Well if I had an unlimited buget that would be great!! That A40 is big $$$$.
Saw a video of the same plane I am building and the guy was running the A50-14S hacker on 5s and was able to unlimited hover!!! That setup is even a bit to $$$$ for me!! But I may spring for that set up.. Any thoughts on that one and what the correct prop would be??

I've got three Hacker A50's, two A50-12S and one A50-16S. Once you buy one of these motors, it will last a long time. Most of mine are on their fourth flying season, and zero problems with any of them. (I've got 8 of them, and, they are $$$$! That includes an A60-16M and an A60-5S. The A60-16M is running on a 12S2P A123 pack, pulling 2800 watts on an APC 19X12 APC-E prop that turns 7000 RPM.)

As for props, I'm running two of the A50's on a 6S2P A123 battery pack, roughly equivalent to a 5S LiPo. The A50-12S is running a 14X10 APC-E prop at about 7950 RPM on two 8 pound models. The A50-16S motor is running a 16X12 APC-E prop on a Showtime 50 and a 7S2P A123 battery pack. That 8 pound Showtime 50 will fly straight up and keep going.

For hovering you might consider the A50-16S motor and a 6S LiPo with that 16X10 inch prop. That's 1200 watts. Make certain your model has prop clearance, and that it can handle a motor with 1200 watts in the nose without flutter problems or similar. Motocalc predicts this combo will put out 180 ounces of thrust, on a model with less than 1/2 that weight. Motocalc also predicts this model will fly straight up at something like 4000 feet per minute, depending on the weight of the battery you select.

All of my A50's are running about 55-60 Amps, and a little over 1000 watts or so. Their temperature as measured by an infra-red thermometer is usually about 15 degrees or so above ambient temperature on landing. (I don't fly full throttle all the time, those models just go to fast!)

Those A123 cells are about 30% heavier than an equivalent LiPo back with similar energy content. They are also about 30% larger in physical size. On the other hand, they don't seem to wear out. I've got over 300 flights on some of my 6S2P A123 packs, and after 4 years, have the same exact performance as when they were brand new.

If you've not worked with these size motors before, you've got to use a little caution with them. If you think sticking a hand into a glow engine propeller is bad, it's about 10 times worse with a high powered electric powered model. That's because the torque skyrockets when you try to slow one down with your hand. And you're dealing with a motor with well over one horsepower output on its driveshaft.

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

I've got three Hacker A50's, two A50-12S and one A50-16S. Once you buy one of these motors, it will last a long time. Most of mine are on their fourth flying season, and zero problems with any of them. (I've got 8 of them, and, they are $$$$! That includes an A60-16M and an A60-5S. The A60-16M is running on a 12S2P A123 pack, pulling 2800 watts on an APC 19X12 APC-E prop that turns 7000 RPM.)

As for props, I'm running two of the A50's on a 6S2P A123 battery pack, roughly equivalent to a 5S LiPo. The A50-12S is running a 14X10 APC-E prop at about 7950 RPM on two 8 pound models. The A50-16S motor is running a 16X12 APC-E prop on a Showtime 50 and a 7S2P A123 battery pack. That 8 pound Showtime 50 will fly straight up and keep going.

For hovering you might consider the A50-16S motor and a 6S LiPo with that 16X10 inch prop. That's 1200 watts. Make certain your model has prop clearance, and that it can handle a motor with 1200 watts in the nose without flutter problems or similar. Motocalc predicts this combo will put out 180 ounces of thrust, on a model with less than 1/2 that weight. Motocalc also predicts this model will fly straight up at something like 4000 feet per minute, depending on the weight of the battery you select.

All of my A50's are running about 55-60 Amps, and a little over 1000 watts or so. Their temperature as measured by an infra-red thermometer is usually about 15 degrees or so above ambient temperature on landing. (I don't fly full throttle all the time, those models just go to fast!)

Those A123 cells are about 30% heavier than an equivalent LiPo back with similar energy content. They are also about 30% larger in physical size. On the other hand, they don't seem to wear out. I've got over 300 flights on some of my 6S2P A123 packs, and after 4 years, have the same exact performance as when they were brand new.

If you've not worked with these size motors before, you've got to use a little caution with them. If you think sticking a hand into a glow engine propeller is bad, it's about 10 times worse with a high powered electric powered model. That's because the torque skyrockets when you try to slow one down with your hand. And you're dealing with a motor with well over one horsepower output on its driveshaft.

Ok DennyV!!! You have intirely too many A50 Hacker motors and I would think that you should immediately send one of them to me!!! I will gladely give you like $50.00 for one yesterday!!! Anyway I wanted to tell you that I appriciate all your info it is really helpful to me in buying a setup.. And I have to say I downloaded Motocalc and have tried several times to plug my setup in there and I can't seem to pull any useful info from it??? I would love to get the numbers for theturnigy 4250-580kv motor that I posted about yesterday with a 14x8 prop and on 5s 3300mah 25c lipo. Any help is again appreciated much. Thanks again Bro!!

[Doclove524]

Originally Posted by Doclove524

Ok DennyV!!! You have intirely too many A50 Hacker motors and I would think that you should immediately send one of them to me!!! I will gladely give you like $50.00 for one yesterday!!! Anyway I wanted to tell you that I appriciate all your info it is really helpful to me in buying a setup.. And I have to say I downloaded Motocalc and have tried several times to plug my setup in there and I can't seem to pull any useful info from it??? I would love to get the numbers for theturnigy 4250-580kv motor that I posted about yesterday with a 14x8 prop and on 5s 3300mah 25c lipo. Any help is again appreciated much. Thanks again Bro!!

Think we also need to keep in mind that this plane's flying weight is only in the 5lb range.........