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Power Systems Talk about motors, ESC speed controllers, gear drives, propellers, power system simulators and all power system related topics

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Old 02-19-2012, 12:09 AM   #1
kenh3497
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Default Hacker A10-7L on 3s??

Beings I'm a noob to electric I assumed the stated motor could be run on a 3S battery. Everything I find says nothing about 3S, only 2S.

So... Has anybody run the hacker A10-7L motor on 3S. I have a hacker X-7 pro ESC, which states right on the tag 3S capable. I'm looking for a bit more performance out doors with a 3D hobby EPP foamy.

Thank you

Ken
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:00 PM   #2
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suggest you go to the Hacker site for info. I'm not familiar with Hacker, but most quality motors can handle an extra cell. You may have to adjust prop diameter or pitch to keep the amps under control.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:24 PM   #3
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I don't have data for this Hacker, but an ELERC C20 is much the same weight (19g v. 20g) and much the same Kv (~2212Kv v. 2200Kv)... I have successfully run this ELERC on 3s with as much as a 5x5 APC E (7.10A/78W), 5.7x3 APC (7.70A/83W) and 6x3 GWS HD (7.25A/78W)... a 6x4 APC E on 3s 9.30A/100W was a bit too far over the top!

If you want to stay under 7A, a 5x3 GWS HD will get you 10.39oz @ 50mph from 5.30A/58W.

I can't guarantee the Hacker will produce exactly these numbers, but it should not be too far away (knowing Hackers reputation... probably it will do better!).
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:59 PM   #4
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You probably can run it on 3s, but you would have to be very careful not to exceed the motors ratings. mainly max amperage of 8 amps for 15 seconds time and max wattage of 60 watts.
On 2s Hacker shows an 8x3.8 prop, 0n 3s you will have to go much smaller so you don't burn it out.
Do you have an inline wattmeter? If not, I would recommend staying with the Hacker recommendations. It is a high quality motor and an expensive one at $40.
Why do you need to run 3s? A small high speed plane like a pusher park jet would be good on a small prop, but most small standard foamies would be great with 2s.
On 3s with out a prop you could exceed max rpm.

This is from Hacker web site, but you probably have these specs
A10 Outrunner Series
A10 7L
Kv (rpm/V) 2200
Max Power (W) 60W
Max Amp (15sec) 8A
Max Efficiency 79%
Io (No load A) 1.1A
Rm (Resistance) 0.11Ohm
Shaft Diameter 2mm
Gearbox N/A
Motor Diameter 21mm
Motor Length 25mm
Motor Weight 20g
Built in Fan N/A
Max Rpm 25,000
Poles 12
Case Outrunner
ESC Timing 20-25 deg
ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz

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Old 02-20-2012, 01:07 AM   #5
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I just felt out side the plane needs a bit more oomph. I checked with my LHS today (120 miles away) He said at 2200KV, 3S would be risky. Maybe I have a battery issue. We installed a new battery to try at the LHS and it felt like it pulled about the same. I purchased everything used.

Maybe I also need to check the ESC programing also??? I'll do that. I down laoded the ESC manule last night. I'll take a good look at it and figurte it out. Baring that, maybe the motor is just a tad shy of power for the plane it's on. As stated it's a 3D Hobby Shop EPP foamy. I could put it on a diet

this one here.... http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/33-EPP-Ex...B_p_15759.html

Thank you for the info.


EDIT;

I was just looking at the specs for the plane. The (or one of) RECOMMENDED motor is a A10-9L.... not the 7L. I'm assuming the "9" has a bit more poop
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:17 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
I was just looking at the specs for the plane. The (or one of) RECOMMENDED motor is a A10-9L.... not the 7L. I'm assuming the "9" has a bit more poop
Hacker is one mfg that provides a number of different "winds" for the same size motor frame. As a result, the same motor frame size can be used with different number of LiPo cells, and different sized props.

The Hacker A10-7L has a "KV" rating of 2200, where the -9L has a KV rating of 1700. The Hacker web site indicates that their A10-9L motor will turn a 5X5 prop at 14700 RPM on a 3 cell LiPo, pulling 7 Amps at 10.5 Volts DC. Putting a 3 cell LiPo on the -7L motor would require a real small propeller. Going up one cell on a two cell LiPo battery while using the same propeller can easily increase the watts by well over 200%. And let the magic smoke out.

Take a look:
http://www.aero-model.com/Hacker-Brushless-A10-9L.aspx

Before playing around with modifying power setups, you might want to check into getting one of those wattmeters, a number of suppliers now have quality units.

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Old 02-20-2012, 02:23 AM   #7
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I found the Hacker site, don't know why I couldn't before? Anyway the "9" only has a 1700KV rating. It looks like 2S is still the only recommended battery.

I guess it's time to put the plane on a diet or try a new battery or double check the ECS programing.

Thanks!!

ken
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
I found the Hacker site, don't know why I couldn't before? Anyway the "9" only has a 1700KV rating. It looks like 2S is still the only recommended battery.

I guess it's time to put the plane on a diet or try a new battery or double check the ECS programing.

Thanks!!

ken
Yup, the "9" only had a 1700 KV rating, but it CAN be used with a 3S LiPo pack. Properly set up, that will result in a substantial power increase.

If you've not found this before, take a look at one of those computer programs for electric power. Free for 30 days, then $39. This program is close to the real world with Hacker and other quality motors. Problem is, some of those cheap motors on the market have specifications that are not even close to the real world.

www.motocalc.com There are a lot of other programs out there, but many of them do not include the model's specifications in their results.

(For some reason, motocalcs web site is down, check back again next day or so.)

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Old 02-21-2012, 05:31 PM   #9
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Beings an electric noob has bit me in the butt..... bought an underpowered plane. I can buy a new motor, out of my budget at the moment, or build a new plane. I have tons of very small/light balsa so might try that just for the experience.

I suppose I could look at some of the cheaper motor offerings out there. Any suggestions?

Ken
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:30 AM   #10
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You probably need a somewhat larger motor... at 20g the best you should expect (at the "rule of thumb" 3W/g) is 60W... so going to say 25g-30g allows you to push a lot more power through the motor.

Assuming you need thrust for aerobatics, a big prop on 2s is the answer....a 28g Motrolfly 2205-1800 v2 (~2175Kv) gets you this on 2s with an 8x4 GWS HD:

7.40v, 12.50A, 92W, 9540rpm, 36.1mph, 489g, 17.22oz, 5.32g/W
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:35 PM   #11
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I know Hacker is considered a top shelf brand. Whit that considered, what are some of the more "value oriented" brands out there.

I know some have had good luck with the hobby king stuff, but I read so many horror stories concerning that company I prefere to stay away from them.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
I know Hacker is considered a top shelf brand. Whit that considered, what are some of the more "value oriented" brands out there.

I know some have had good luck with the hobby king stuff, but I read so many horror stories concerning that company I prefere to stay away from them.
Now that would be good information.

Wattflyer readers

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Old 10-16-2012, 05:50 AM   #13
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If I wanted to do a 3s 370mAh battery with the hacker A10-7L would a 5x7 prop work without causing any issues?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
Beings I'm a noob to electric I assumed the stated motor could be run on a 3S battery. Everything I find says nothing about 3S, only 2S.

So... Has anybody run the hacker A10-7L motor on 3S. I have a hacker X-7 pro ESC, which states right on the tag 3S capable. I'm looking for a bit more performance out doors with a 3D hobby EPP foamy.

Thank you

Ken
That Hacker motor turns a 6X3 prop at near 13,000 RPM on a two cell 350 mah LiPo per Hackers website.

Going to a 3 cell LiPo is going to result in a substantial increase in RPM and, unfortunately amps and power input. Possibly enough to burn up the motor.

You might consider going to the Hacker A20 series. The Hacker A20-34S will turn a 5X7 prop at some 14,200 RPM, and do it without burning up. Note that is a very high pitch prop though, and would be used for high speed, not 3D and similar stuff. This gives a blade pitch airflow speed of some 94 MPH. If you are after slower flying, a 6X4 prop would be in the neighborhood.

The A20 Hacker is going to weigh about 1/2 ounce more than the A10 series.

(Check out www.motocalc.com, free for 30 days, then $39) The Hacker A20 series motor has a number of different winds, so it make it a bit easier to select a motor while using motocalc to determine the best fit for the performance you are after.

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Old 10-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #15
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Denny,

How can I go about measuring the prop pitch. I have a flyfly P-51d 550mm and I don't understand how the prop pitch can be that high either?
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by updogg View Post
Denny,

How can I go about measuring the prop pitch. I have a flyfly P-51d 550mm and I don't understand how the prop pitch can be that high either?
H'mm
That one I can't answer. Perhaps if you picked up a same diameter prop with a known blade pitch value, and compare it to your prop with a protractor, it might give some idea. Methinks a very high pitch prop might have a blade pitch of 45 degrees at the blade tip.

Any prop experts out there

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Old 10-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #17
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Can you walk me through how to use one of those motor calculators. I don't understand that stuff yet.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:48 PM   #18
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Also, the Hacker A20-34s is rated for a 2S lipo as well. Ugh I don't understand this stuff
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by updogg View Post
Can you walk me through how to use one of those motor calculators. I don't understand that stuff yet.
That's the nice thing about those Hacker motors, they have a wide variety of winds available. I've run the numbers on the Hacker A20-26M motor, using a model with a 24 inch wingspan, 160 square inches, and 11 ounces weight without motor or battery. (Your model will likely vary from these numbers.)

Simply click on the motor, select the Hacker A20-26M motor, go to the propeller, select an 8-6 APC-E (Electric) prop, select a LiPo 3 cell battery with about 1200 mah capacity, and key in the command to show the results. You will get what appears in the attached JPG.

Note the watts per pound figure, and the rate of climb. These two numbers are important on how your model will fly. Also click on the "Opinions" and see what the motocalc program suggests will be the flight performance of your model.

Note there are a lot of much less costly motors out there that will also work. Some are good, some are not so good. Some will last for a long time, some will throw magnets on the second flight. And that might be the same brand and model number of the motor.

Those $$$$ Hackers and a few others will perform per their specifications, and will do it for a long long time, if you don't try to use the motor as a plow that is. This result shows 130 watts per pound, and 1500 feet per minute climb out. Those are very good numbers for general flying and acrobatics. If you want to do 3D, that might require perhaps 150 or 200 watts per pound.

I looked up your model, is it the unit with 47 inch wingspan, 527 square inches and 38 ounces? (I suspect there are several versions of this model) If so, the Hacker A20 motor would be to small. Better motors are either the Hacker A30 or A40 series. I've got both, and both are real power houses. (Also got three A50's and two A60's.)


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Old 10-17-2012, 01:15 PM   #20
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My plane will be about 200grams flying weight. The wingspan is 550mm and the wing area 45dm2. I will try to go on motocalc today. Thanks for your help so far, it is greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by updogg View Post
My plane will be about 200grams flying weight. The wingspan is 550mm and the wing area 45dm2. I will try to go on motocalc today. Thanks for your help so far, it is greatly appreciated.
OK, I ran the numbers with a Hacker A20-26M, and went to options on motocalc and changed it to metric.

With a 20x8 metric prop, motocalc suggests this model will be wildly overpowered, and will climb out straight up at 6.44 meters per second.

Don't know if this motor could bust up your model though, it might require a very strong model.

Enter the numbers in motocalc per attached, hit the compute report button, then hit the opinion button. I guessed at the empty weight of your model with everything but the motor/esc/battery weights. Then, play with different prop sizes, motor sizes, and do the compute report/opinion stuff. This should give a clear idea on where to go for your model.

We are all quite interested in your project, let us know your results.


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