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Old 02-20-2012, 01:03 AM   #1
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Exclamation RX Switch Question

I have a startup sequence question.
If I install a switch between the BEC and the receiver, then is the following sequence correct?

1. Place the switch in the OFF position.
2. Connect the battery - this should not energize the RX
3. Turn on the TX
4. Turn on the RX switch
5. Fly
6. Turn off the RX switch.
7. Turn off the TX
8. Disconnect the batery
Thanks in advance
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:16 AM   #2
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Always Tx on first, then on for Rx and ESC
Always Rx and ESC off first, then turn off Tx...

Your motor will still have power and it might start acting wildly....had it happen once to me....never again!! kinda scary....props do bite!!

have a good one and be safe
cr
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Always Tx on first, then on for Rx
Always Rx off first, then turn off Tx...

Your motor will still have power and it might start acting wildly....had it happen once to me....never again!! kinda scary....props do bite!!

have a good one and be safe
cr
I am confused by your response.

If I have a switch for the RX, and the RX is off then state of the TX state must be irrelevant as the receiver is inactive.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:25 AM   #4
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Your battery for your motor will be plugged into the esc before the tx is on...that is bad, or do you mean you have a switch between your motor/esc and main flight battery???

Think of it as your Tx being a Teacher(gives instructions) ......and your rx is a student(recieves instructions)....what happen to students with no teacher!! lol Chaos!!!
hope this helps


cr
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:33 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Your battery for your motor will be plugged into the esc before the tx is on...that is bad, or do you mean you have a switch between your motor/esc and main flight battery???

cr
I was thinking of using one of the switches that goes between the BEC on the ESC and the RX. Thus with the battery connected and when the switch is off the RX is not active. It is my understanding that the ESC will not energize the motor if the RX is not on.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:01 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I was thinking of using one of the switches that goes between the BEC on the ESC and the RX. Thus with the battery connected and when the switch is off the RX is not active. It is my understanding that the ESC will not energize the motor if the RX is not on.
Ok I understand....I think...You have an a Esc with an Internal BEC that powers your rx with a switch in between while being hooked up to main battery......what is your reason for the switch?

if your rx has no power....you have no way of controling or communicating with motor throttle or flight surfaces while having power hooked up to the esc/motor.

Before powering anything on your plane, your transmitter has to be on first....

cr
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:09 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Ok I understand....I think...You have an a Esc with an Internal BEC that powers your rx with a switch in between while being hooked up to main battery......what is your reason for the switch?

if your rx has no power....you have no way of controlling or communicating with motor throttle or flight surfaces while having power hooked up to the esc/motor.

Before powering anything on your plane, your transmitter has to be on first....

cr
OK That is what I thought. The reason I'm considering this is I have read about and seen situations where a throttle was advanced by mistake; the result has been damaged equipment or injuries.
So my thought was that with the RX switch I could connect the battery, but nothing would be enabled until I powered-up the RX.

As you suggest I would turn on the TX before turning on the RX.

Thanks
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I was thinking of using one of the switches that goes between the BEC on the ESC and the RX. Thus with the battery connected and when the switch is off the RX is not active. It is my understanding that the ESC will not energize the motor if the RX is not on.
You're correct, the ESC should NOT power up the motor if the receiver is not powered up. That said, with the wide variety of ESC's out there, and perhaps a few of them not the best quality, I'd not take a chance. Especially with some of the high powered motors out there.

Methinks just hooking up the ESC throttle servo direct to the receiver is the way to go. That will eliminate one point of failure possiblility, namely the receiver switch.

Also, again IMHO, the ESC's BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) should be of the switching type for any power system using three LiPo cells or more. Some of the newer type ESC's have built in switching BEC's such as Castle Creations ICE line.

Castle also makes an excellent uBEC, their 10 Amp unit that weighs in at about 1/2 ounce, and is cheaper than a quality standard 4 cell Nih receiver battery.

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Old 02-20-2012, 02:18 AM   #9
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I understand your concern....I know that if you have a computer tx, you can program one of the aux channels and pair it to a tx toggle switch that cuts off only the throttle channel thus preventing accidental movement of the physical throttle stick..


cr
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
I understand your concern....I know that if you have a computer tx, you can program one of the aux channels and pair it to a tx toggle switch that cuts off only the throttle channel thus preventing accidental movement of the physical throttle stick..


cr
I have a DX6i; I am not sure that I understand what you are suggesting!

I don't see how movment of the throttle stick can be prevented. Are you suggesting that there is a way to make movement of the throttle to have no effect?
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
You're correct, the ESC should NOT power up the motor if the receiver is not powered up. That said, with the wide variety of ESC's out there, and perhaps a few of them not the best quality, I'd not take a chance. Especially with some of the high powered motors out there.

Methinks just hooking up the ESC throttle servo direct to the receiver is the way to go. That will eliminate one point of failure possiblility, namely the receiver switch.

Also, again IMHO, the ESC's BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) should be of the switching type for any power system using three LiPo cells or more. Some of the newer type ESC's have built in switching BEC's such as Castle Creations ICE line.

Castle also makes an excellent uBEC, their 10 Amp unit that weighs in at about 1/2 ounce, and is cheaper than a quality standard 4 cell Nih receiver battery.

Good Dennis is here, Pax, this guy builds his own esc's(and everything else)he knows waaaaaayyy more than I, but I can't afford all that high dollar works perfect all the time stuff!!


cr
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I have a DX6i; I am not sure that I understand what you are suggesting!

I don't see how movment of the throttle stick can be prevented. Are you suggesting that there is a way to make movement of the throttle to have no effect?

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...tle+cut+switch
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:30 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I have a DX6i; I am not sure that I understand what you are suggesting!

I don't see how movment of the throttle stick can be prevented. Are you suggesting that there is a way to make movement of the throttle to have no effect?
Don't know about the Spektrum DX6i, I've got two DX7's. These transmitters allow mixing the gear servo with the throttle servo. Net result is the throttle is dead when the gear switch is pulled toward the pilot. And the throttle is active when the gear switch is pushed away from the pilot.

With my Kilowatt, and multi-Kilowatt models, that is an important feature!

(This is not original, someone else came up with this procedure)

Electric Flight Safety
Ideally every electric aircraft you have should be equipped with an arming device on the craft itself (either and ESC switch or power interrupter plug) as well as having a throttle cut switch on your transmitter. Since electric motors can startup unexpectedly and inflict a lot of painful damage the double precaution can avoid some nasty injuries. Although an arming switch/plug on the aircraft ought to be sufficient on its own there are times when it is armed with the intention of flying but something distracts you and the aircraft is now vulnerable to a careless jog of the throttle lever, the transmitter becomes your last line of defense.
I have implemented a transmitter disable switch for all my aircraft (helis as well as conventional planes) this way the process is second nature to me. The idea is that whenever the aircraft is not expected to fly the transmitter switch is in the disable position. The moment before takeoff I switch it to enable, fly as required then the moment the aircraft touches down and I have completed taxiing it I always click the switch to disabled.
Some of the more advanced transmitters have the ability to set a throttle cut switch up within their menus however others need a little work to make it happen. Below I give the process needed to set up a Spektrum DX7, it is likely this technique can be used on other transmitters, it is well worth doing and if you are still unsure how try looking online for your particular transmitter.
In my case I use the switch at the top right hand corner of the transmitter as the kill switch, this seems to be a standard as far as I can tell, the DX7 does have a label saying HOLD for this switch (as well as Ruder D/R).

Setup Process For the Spektrum DX7 Transmitter:
From your selected plane setup menu (pressing scroll and select simultaneously) move to one of the mixing channels (I used Mix 3, for mixing with the gear switch).
Select source and destination for the mix to be THRO (short for throttle), the display should show:
THRO -> THRO
Now move to the rate section and set both sections to -100% (you will be able to set one of them with the throttle stick down and the other with it up).
Move to the SW: section and set it to MIX
Move to the OFFSET section and set it to -100%.
If you toggle the gear switch you should see the text to the right of the THRO -> THRO change from OFF to ON, when this reads ON the throttle is disabled (this should be with the switch pulled toward you).

[PROG.MIX1]
THRO->THRO ON
RATE: -100%
-100%
>SW:MIX
OFFSET:-100
Carefully try this out with your model turned on, with the switch toward you it should not be possible to start the motor at all (even helis should be disabled despite the position of the idle up switch). And, as always, check all remaining transmitter functions for both direction and unexpected operations. In case something else got changed by accident.
All that remains now is to cultivate the habit of ensuring the switch is in the disabled position whenever you pick up the aircraft and whenever it is not on the flying field.

DennyV
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:33 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Don't know about the Spektrum DX6i, I've got two DX7's. These transmitters allow mixing the gear servo with the throttle servo. Net result is the throttle is dead when the gear switch is pulled toward the pilot. And the throttle is active when the gear switch is pushed away from the pilot.

With my Kilowatt, and multi-Kilowatt models, that is an important feature!
I'll go read my manual again and see if I can do this.

Thanks
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:34 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I'll go read my manual again and see if I can do this.

Thanks
Just added the text for the mix, compare this to your DX6i manual.

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Old 02-20-2012, 02:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CrimzonRider View Post
Good Dennis is here, Pax, this guy builds his own esc's(and everything else)he knows waaaaaayyy more than I, but I can't afford all that high dollar works perfect all the time stuff!!


cr


Brush type ESC's! The computer software used in our brushless ESC's is several orders of magnitude over my head!

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Old 02-20-2012, 03:24 AM   #17
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On my EX6 Futabas, they have a throttle kill switch. On Nitro it just pulls the throttle servo to completely close the barrel of the Carburator. If You push it and advace the throttle on an electric nothing happens it disables the throttle. So for safety with my electrics, I installed a small switch. You have to push down to unlock the switch so it will go from off to on and spliced into the kill switch. With the switch in the off position the throttle channel is dead. Push and flip and you are good to go. I also installed a LED to let me visually know that the throttle is armed. I would show so pic, but my camera bit the dust.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:06 PM   #18
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Thanks to all for your responses.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
Thanks to all for your responses.
Let us know if the DX6i can be configured to allow a toggle switch such as the gear switch to be configured as a throttle kill switch. And if it works, how you programmed it.

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Old 02-20-2012, 06:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Let us know if the DX6i can be configured to allow a toggle switch such as the gear switch to be configured as a throttle kill switch. And if it works, how you programmed it.
I have tried a number of things, but no joy yet.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Let us know if the DX6i can be configured to allow a toggle switch such as the gear switch to be configured as a throttle kill switch. And if it works, how you programmed it.
It cant be done on the DX6i because it doesn't have the 'offset' feature in the mixing menus.

A switch between BEC and Rx should be a safe way to kill the motor, at least in most cases.. But beware if you have one of the new Hitec systems that has an supplementary power connector (SPC) direct between flight battery and Rx. On these even with the BEC output is turned off the Rx is still powered and the throttle still works..BUT the servos are dead because they are powered from the BEC, so you have a lethal combination working motor and dead control surfaces

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Old 02-20-2012, 08:53 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
It cant be done on the DX6i because it doesn't have the 'offset' feature in the mixing menus.
Steve
Good to know, thanks.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:28 AM   #23
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And, another reason you turn on your tx first.

What it your switch goes bad and is stuck in the on position?

And yep it's happened to me.

I was at a club fly in, taking turns with a bud who was flying on the same channel as me. Had my bird "safe", rx pack was in, switch off. Lucky it didn't have the flight pack installed.

He's flying and I'm watching, when another club member comes over and says "You know your bird is flapping it's wings?"

Run over, and sure enough the control surfaces are wailing away.
Switch shorted out and was powering the rx, which was following the other pilots inputs on his bird.

Never say never.

When I die, I want to go like my Grandfather did, in his sleep...... Not screaming like the passengers in his plane.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:54 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by paxskipper View Post
I was thinking of using one of the switches that goes between the BEC on the ESC and the RX. Thus with the battery connected and when the switch is off the RX is not active. It is my understanding that the ESC will not energize the motor if the RX is not on.
There's no point in having the Rx switch ... you are only adding grams and also then having to cut a hole to mount it so you can actuate it.

Better to activate Throttle Hold as zero on your Tx and use that. ie Switch on TX, flick Thro Hold switch so motor is cut via Tx command. Then plug in ESC / battery ... When ready to fly .. flick Thro Hold switch to On position.
This gives you a first line safety switch against knocking throttle stick ... etc. and going anywhere near front of model.

I always use the TH switch when mounting battery or de-mounting as most models I have to have front pointing toward or near me ...

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Old 02-24-2012, 07:56 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Glacier Girl View Post
And, another reason you turn on your tx first.

What it your switch goes bad and is stuck in the on position?

And yep it's happened to me.

I was at a club fly in, taking turns with a bud who was flying on the same channel as me. Had my bird "safe", rx pack was in, switch off. Lucky it didn't have the flight pack installed.

He's flying and I'm watching, when another club member comes over and says "You know your bird is flapping it's wings?"

Run over, and sure enough the control surfaces are wailing away.
Switch shorted out and was powering the rx, which was following the other pilots inputs on his bird.

Never say never.
Just a note - a thing of the past with 2.4Ghz .... only older sets with FM would do this now ...

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