How to Mix Rudder With Ailerons?

[eagle33]

I have a Dx6I radio and I would like to know, step-by-step, how to mix some rudder with ailerons. I have studied the manual and for some reason I 'm not getting it. Frustrating.

[hayofstacks]

Go to the adjust menu, then mix1. Then you change it from inh to act and those are your setting.

[xmech2k]

Yes, once you select 'act', you'll see all the extra stuff it shows on page 71 of the manual. Scroll around and you can see the things you can adjust.

The first line are the channels you are mixing. The one on the left is the master, on the right is the slave. So you should make the left one AILE, and the right one RUDD.

Leave ACT alone, as you can change it back to INH to inhibit the mix again.

The RATE row picks how much you'll want the rudder to move to the left and right with the ailerons. Use + both left and right, if you use - it will give oppositte rudder. The number is a percentage, so at 50%, of course, you get half rudder deflection with full aileron deflection. You'll just have to experiment with this to see what you like.

The bottom row has a SW option, where you can either leave the mix ON all the time, or assign a switch so you can turn it on and off.

Then there is TRIM, where you can choose if the master channel will affect the slave channel when the master ch is trimmed.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Oh yeah, go to the MONITOR page and you can see the results of your mix right there.

[Nitro Blast]

I understand the question, but heres what I dont understand...

Why in the world would you want to mix rudder into ailerons? (as in Rudder=master, Ailerons= slave)

(in my simplistic mind) ailerons are only momentarily used for bank, then you return to neutral in the bank, then you add elevator to bring the turn in.


With a rudder elevator plane only, you HOLD the rudder to turn. Not momentarily add.

If you mix rudder into ailerons, you get a yaw with your roll action, and that to me is very undesireable.

please 'splain for me so I understand the benefit of that. I have always considered it a no-no.


In my acrobatic stuff, I mix rudder to aileron, which is 100% opposite of aileron to rudder (where the rudder is the master, ailerons are slave). When I move the ailerons, the rudder does nothing. With rudder, I get a slight change in ailerons and elevator to hold the roll and pitch correct for knife edge flight.

[eagle33]

Guys - I got it!! Many thanks. I don't know why I was having such a mental block as it turned out to be relatively simple. Thanks, again to both of you.

[eagle33]

The reason for doing this: I want to see (just for fun) if my plane will behave like a real aircraft in a turn. In a real plane, ailerons produce roll and at the same time they produce an adverse yaw. So, if you use the ailerons to roll to the right as in a right turn, the plane will not really turn to the right it will skid to the right. To counteract the skid a little right rudder at the same time will result in a really smooth right turn.

[hayofstacks]

I could also see doing it on a plane where the aleroins aren't as sensetive as the rudder, or if you wanted to have more control of the plane at low air speed, or when flaperoins are used.

[Nitro Blast]

Thanks eagle33, let us know how it works for you please.

[quorneng]

Of course if you have separate aileron servos you could mix in differential movement instead and reduce/eliminate the adverse yaw without having to move the rudder at all!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

The mix works very well with flat bottom wings & is less efective on semi-semetrical ones

[xmech2k]

I used this mix in my Phase3 P-40 (RIP), as it had bad adverse yaw, and the aileron servo wires were spliced together inside the wing from the factory. Without the rudder mix, if you didn't add rudder yourself, every time you banked for a turn it was like she wanted to go the other way. It was really bad. The mix worked OK for regular banking turns, but if you tried to do a roll or some other aerobatics, it was weird. So I put it on a switch. I finally seperated the ail wires and got differential aileron and all was well until I plastered her on the runway.

[fmw]

Originally Posted by eagle33

The reason for doing this: I want to see (just for fun) if my plane will behave like a real aircraft in a turn. In a real plane, ailerons produce roll and at the same time they produce an adverse yaw. So, if you use the ailerons to roll to the right as in a right turn, the plane will not really turn to the right it will skid to the right. To counteract the skid a little right rudder at the same time will result in a really smooth right turn.

It's called a coordinated turn. You don't need a mix to coordinate your turns. You simply apply a little rudder during the turn. How much you add depends on the bank angle.

[Nitro Blast]

Originally Posted by fmw

It's called a coordinated turn. You don't need a mix to coordinate your turns. You simply apply a little rudder during the turn. How much you add depends on the bank angle.

Which is why I asked in the first place. Once you stop adding aileron (established bank angle) if the rudder is mixed, it goes away and you need to manually add rudder anyway.


Still interested in his flight report.

[eagle33]

Well, I got out to fly at daybreak this morning (at this time of day I get about 45 minutes to an hour of flying before the wind comes up and it's been pretty windy in Dallas the past few days). I had the rudder mixed with the ailerons initially. I really didn't care for the way the plane behaved - hard to describe - it was okay but I didn't like not having complete control through every turn. And the turns weren't as smooth as I thought they were going to be. I could probably have altered the percent mix by trial and error to smooth things out but I just didn't think it was worth the trouble. So, I took out the mix, now flying as usual with manual rudder input. Much better.

The purpose of this exercise was to learn how program a mix into my Dx6i. So, I accomplished that. Next, I'm going to see if I can mix elevator with flap to try to dampen a balooning effect when I lower the flaps.

Trying different things is fun whether you can accomplish anything or not.

[Nitro Blast]

Originally Posted by eagle33

Next, I'm going to see if I can mix elevator with flap to try to dampen a balooning effect when I lower the flaps.

NO NO NO!! You want to mix flap to elevator!!! FLAP MASTER, ELEVATOR SLAVE!!!
You do not want the flaps to drop or move every time you move the elevator. You want the 'trim point' (or adding a touch of down elevator) when the flaps are dropped. Semantics maybe, but critical that you understand which is the master and which is the slave.

Flap to elevator, now thats a valid, tried and tested mixing benefit.

Next, try mixing Rudder to Aileron and Elevator. To see if you need that, set up in straight and level flight, and add rudder. Watch what happens.

Without mixing, usually you get a wing drop, and the nose drops with rudder. Mixing a touch of opposite aileron and a smidge of elevator, means rudder control actually looks ONLY like rudder control in flight, with no bad tendancies. Makes a REMARKABLE change in using rudder on landing approaches. Only yaw changes, not pitch and roll.

Wishing you the best of success in your learning what mixes are for, looks like you are up for it.

[hayofstacks]

From the one flat bottom wing with flaperons I have used, I don't see any reason to add or subtract elevator using flaps. But my alpha 450 "sport" does balloon upwards with speed. Hitting 40% flaps straightens out the plane and keeps it more or less level, while taking away top speed. I get a slight bubble, almost like going over lift for a second. After the speed evens out, so does the plane.

Not sure how much it will effect a symetrical wing like my mini ultra stick, but if it slows it down at all, I may need to rebuild the plane.

[quorneng]

hayofstacks
The trim change on deploying flaps will rather depend on their size.
Big flaps are likely to produce a substantial trim change.