Losing my confidence in Spektrum

[Turner]

Sorry, I missed where you mentioned the Tx antenna position in the first post. Straight up is my favored position as well.

Originally Posted by e-pilot

...Antennas were oriented in 90 degree offset planes and were placed against the fuse side and bottom so only a 1/16 sheet of balsa and the monokote separated the antennas from the signal...

Was the antenna mounted to the side vertical or horizontal? In other words were both antennas horizontal or was one vertical?

Along with following the 90˚ rule I like to always mount one antenna vertical.

The 61xx receivers are not full range and though I have two of them I wouldn't use them in anything capable of lifting a full range Rx.

[e-pilot]

Originally Posted by Turner

Sorry, I missed where you mentioned the Tx antenna position in the first post. Straight up is my favored position as well.



Was the antenna mounted to the side vertical or horizontal? In other words were both antennas horizontal or was one vertical?

Along with following the 90˚ rule I like to always mount one antenna vertical.

The 61xx receivers are not full range and though I have two of them I wouldn't use them in anything capable of lifting a full range Rx.

I was using a 6210-X,not a 61xx series. The main receiver was mounted on the bottom of the fuse with one antenna horizonal left and one horizontal right - the satellite unit was on the passenger side (the side closest to me when contact was lost) fuse wall 1/2 inch below the window with one antenna up and the other antenna down, I pretty much had an antenna pointing every direction there was to point one.

I learned the transmitter antenna position thing a long time ago the hard way by flying my P-51 off into the ocean. Crashing into the ocean is really tough on the electronics, but not too bad on the airframe, so she's actually still flying today every weekend! Still has the burned up ESC smell in it too! I used to fly with the antenna bent 90 but horizontal with the ground pointing out to the left (where our base to final turn point was!) Ha! was I dumb back then. But, I did learn that lesson well and have never repeated that mistake...

[Turner]

Originally Posted by e-pilot

I was using a 6210-X,not a 61xx series...

You had a 6110e in the L-39, Right?

[e-pilot]

Originally Posted by Turner

You had a 6110e in the L-39, Right?

Ah, yes, you are correct. I thought you were talking about the 182 crash. The L-39 was a parkflyer foamie. Only 25" span. It never got more than 500 feet away from me. I wouldn't have been able to see it that far away! So I think it was an appropriate receiver for that kind of model. Still, it lost contact not more than 100 feet away, well within the range it's 'supposed' to work in...

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by airmail wf

Read the post "I DIDN"T SAY Futaba was first at anything. If you are going to quote me please be correct. I could care less what the Marines use or what you use or see or fail to see. I stated my opinion and my experiences to the OP. If you have or think you have something better to use or experiences with something you think is better then state it. But please don't put words in my mouth (or post). Thank You.

Cor blimey Guv'nor ... we are sensitive today ....

To put ze records straight ....... I vos correcting zee implied and perceived in your post ...

Jokes apart ...... I was not rude or offensive so no need to get high about it. Problem is that many read forums and many take what is said literally as gospel. the implied with your post was that Futaba was THE company on heavy lifts. I was making the point that in fact as a person who spends a lot of time around heavy lifts where some gear has RC control to open / close grabs etc. - Futaba is not a name I see.
As to Marines ....... I have friends who are Marine Commando's and also members of SBS - THE ELITE ... but that is not the Marine I mentioned ... I'm talking shipping where cranes / heavy lift are important part.

Believe it or not - I am not a bad guy ... well not THAT bad !!

[airmail wf]

I didn't think my post needed correcting (by you) nor did I imply that Futaba was the first or the only company in heavy lifts.What I implied and will stand behind is Futaba is the ONLY company that has been using 2.4 technology for 30 years and makes RC Radios for our hobby. Out of all the RC companies that make radios for our hobby they are the only ones with that track record that I know of.

I really didn't want to get into a pi$$ing contest about any companies but since you feel the need to correct my posts and set any implied statements that you said I made right, go ahead show me a company that does the same with the same or better track record.

I stated that Futaba was a big company that deals with lifts and has been using 2.4 technology with their lifts for 30 years. Just because you work somewhere that doesn't use their lifts means what? Hey I work somewhere that I saw someone use a piece of construction equipment that was radio controlled by (you guessed it) FUTABA. I guess that makes me an expert about all the companies that make equipment for that field.

I'm sure you are not a bad person. Just maybe ill informed. And someone who likes (or thinks they should) change other peoples' posts to their liking.

I am curious about something you did state. The lifts that you use you stated are make by JR. Are they using DSM2 technology? If they are you might not want to stand under them. Not that anything might happen, but you never know.

[solentlife]

Originally Posted by airmail wf

I didn't think my post needed correcting (by you) nor did I imply that Futaba was the first or the only company in heavy lifts.What I implied and will stand behind is Futaba is the ONLY company that has been using 2.4 technology for 30 years and makes RC Radios for our hobby. Out of all the RC companies that make radios for our hobby they are the only ones with that track record that I know of.

I really didn't want to get into a pi$$ing contest about any companies but since you feel the need to correct my posts and set any implied statements that you said I made right, go ahead show me a company that does the same with the same or better track record.

I stated that Futaba was a big company that deals with lifts and has been using 2.4 technology with their lifts for 30 years. Just because you work somewhere that doesn't use their lifts means what? Hey I work somewhere that I saw someone use a piece of construction equipment that was radio controlled by (you guessed it) FUTABA. I guess that makes me an expert about all the companies that make equipment for that field.

I'm sure you are not a bad person. Just maybe ill informed. And someone who likes (or thinks they should) change other peoples' posts to their liking.

I am curious about something you did state. The lifts that you use you stated are make by JR. Are they using DSM2 technology? If they are you might not want to stand under them. Not that anything might happen, but you never know.

Oh Dear ....

So 2.4Ghz is the only technology used on Heavy lifts ? Give over ... I'm not getting into a peeíng contest either ...

DSM2 my ****** !! Now that's funny ....

I'm glad you posted that gem - that'll keep the smile on my face all day !!

If anyone was daft enough to think that a 500 ton lift is going to be trusted to what we use ?? Only Myth Busters are silly enough to use such !

To mention a specialised environment that has no relation whatsoever to a model flying around the sky is ludicrous to be honest.

The number of Co's out there producing control systems for lifting gear is a LOT ! JR, JRC, are just the tip of an iceberg ... you can include Yaesu and other well known as well as little known names ... 2.4 is only part of the arena ...

All probably getting components / systems from similar sources ...maybe even Futaba's suppliers ... who knows and who cares ...

[airmail wf]

Originally Posted by solentlife

Oh Dear ....

So 2.4Ghz is the only technology used on Heavy lifts ? Give over ... I'm not getting into a peeíng contest either ...

DSM2 my ****** !! Now that's funny ....

I'm glad you posted that gem - that'll keep the smile on my face all day !!

If anyone was daft enough to think that a 500 ton lift is going to be trusted to what we use ?? Only Myth Busters are silly enough to use such !

To mention a specialised environment that has no relation whatsoever to a model flying around the sky is ludicrous to be honest.

The number of Co's out there producing control systems for lifting gear is a LOT ! JR, JRC, are just the tip of an iceberg ... you can include Yaesu and other well known as well as little known names ... 2.4 is only part of the arena ...

All probably getting components / systems from similar sources ...maybe even Futaba's suppliers ... who knows and who cares ...

Originally Posted by solentlife

Sorry to burst the bubble - but do you honestly think Futaba was first, is the only Co. involved in heavy lift control ?

I work with heavy lift Marine stuff incl. radio controlled grabs and cranes ... to be honest I've never seen Futaba name on any ... JR yes ... and many other labels ... Futie ? Nope.

Must keep an eye out for it !!

Oh - I was a Futaba fanatic till I got my JR Propo in the 1980's ....

That Sir implies that you are talking about the same companies, system or frequency that we are flying our toy planes on.

Hey have a nice day. Don't lift anything to heavy.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by airmail wf

One other thing Futaba is such a big company they make their own chips for there radios.

That used to be a big deal a few years ago. But nowdays, I suspect designing a new chip is no longer the major project it used to be.

Case in point, take a look at one popular line of IC's, the Microchip line of integrated circuits. They've got many thousands of different types including over 10,000 different microcontrollers.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...chip&x=18&y=13
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/cat/...09?k=microchip

Makes you wonder of these chips might be designed by computers???

[Old Fart]

Computers, designing and building other computers....SKYNET

[NJSwede]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

Makes you wonder of these chips might be designed by computers???

They are. To some extent. Most of them are derived from libraries of reusable functional blocks. One block, for example, may be a complete signal processor capable of processing a 2.4GHz signal. The rest is typically defined in a hardware definition language, such as VHDL. The VHDL is the fed through a computer program that transforms it to blueprints for a chip that can be sent to a manufacturing plant.

Is there still a lot of intelligence and knowledge that goes into designing a chip for digital radio? You bet! Is it the black magic it used to be 10-20 years ago? No.

Designing the chip is probably not the most challenging part, since it's mostly built from stock building blocks. The real challenge is typically designing the software. (EDIT: And me having a software engineering background has nothing to do with that... )

[airmail wf]

I would think it's all about quality control with Futaba. If someone else is designing and manufacturing your chip or software the quality control is in their hands instead of yours. I have seen this first hand in the RC industry. The more you can keep in-house the better for everyone. That includes us. The problem is most companies that produce Radio Control systems can't afford or won't buy the equipment to do this. Futaba can and does.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by NJSwede

Designing the chip is probably not the most challenging part, since it's mostly built from stock building blocks. The real challenge is typically designing the software. (EDIT: And me having a software engineering background has nothing to do with that... )

Methinks the quality of the computer software program to run the transmitter and receiver microcontrollers that control the communications between the two is as important, if not more important than the integrated circuits that actually do the work.

As for the software itself, I've designed a little "Flight Counter" that counts the number of flights for a model. It consists of one little 8 pin Microchip PicChip, one resistor, and one LED. That's it.

But, the SOFTWARE to run this little project is over 5 pages of machine code.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Gohmer

How did this get to be a Futaba advertising topic?

I thought it was about Spektrum confidence. Mine is still high. I did have a "brown out" the other day when my airplane got between the sun and me

Ouch
Last year a club member lost a big gasser model when he did that one late afternoon when the sun got behind his model during a landing. (For the newbies, if that happens, you can't see your model for a good 10 seconds until your eyes recover!)

[airmail wf]

Originally Posted by Gohmer

How did this get to be a Futaba advertising topic?

I thought it was about Spektrum confidence. Mine is still high. I did have a "brown out" the other day when my airplane got between the sun and me

Just trying to show the difference between manufactures.

Back on subject. I have and use a DX7 and never had a problem with it. But other people have. I use it for my smaller stuff and save my big planes for my 8FG Super. I would think it's a good thing to have knowledge on how different manufactures produce their products. Do you?

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by airmail wf

Just trying to show the difference between manufactures.

Back on subject. I have and use a DX7 and never had a problem with it. But other people have. I use it for my smaller stuff and save my big planes for my 8FG Super. I would think it's a good thing to have knowledge on how different manufactures produce their products. Do you?

Yup
This sure makes me wonder about the background quality control of all those clones and counterfeit receivers for both the Futaba and Spektrum radio systems.

[dahawk]

On Clone RX's,

Since Futaba gets an arm and a leg for their rx's, I've been using clones from Frysky, Corona, Orange(same thing) . About one third the price. Okay, I'm not flying a $1,000+ aircraft and keep my altitude and range within the confines of the parameters of our field and my vision. Have not had one issue with them.

Not to say it would not make me a little nervous using them in something really cherished or expensive.

A PCB is a PCB, right? Most of this stuff has infant mortality. They die early if they're faulty. Usually know right away.

-Hawk

[airmail wf]

Originally Posted by dahawk

On Clone RX's,

Since Futaba gets an arm and a leg for their rx's, I've been using clones from Frysky, Corona, Orange(same thing) . About one third the price. Okay, I'm not flying a $1,000+ aircraft and keep my altitude and range within the confines of the parameters of our field and my vision. Have not had one issue with them.

Not to say it would not make me a little nervous using them in something really cherished or expensive.

A PCB is a PCB, right? Most of this stuff has infant mortality. They die early if they're faulty. Usually know right away.

-Hawk

I would be concerned about safety of others if you are flying anything with some weight.

Not always true about failing early. I have seen electronics fail after many flights.

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by dahawk

On Clone RX's,

Since Futaba gets an arm and a leg for their rx's, I've been using clones from Frysky, Corona, Orange(same thing) . About one third the price. Okay, I'm not flying a $1,000+ aircraft and keep my altitude and range within the confines of the parameters of our field and my vision. Have not had one issue with them.

Not to say it would not make me a little nervous using them in something really cherished or expensive.

A PCB is a PCB, right? Most of this stuff has infant mortality. They die early if they're faulty. Usually know right away.

-Hawk

That's the point exactly. You never read about the thousands of people that have had excellent luck with the Spektrum radio, Futaba radio, Hitec, Ford, Chevy, Dodge and so on.

What you read about is the one person who had failures with the radio they were using. If you start to read repeated stories on the same brand, then it's time to worry.

Like that Weedeater riding lawnmower I bought last year. The transmission failed after four hours of use. Found many many many complaints in the internet about reliability, and many described it as a P.O.S. After trying for 6 weeks to get it fixed with zero success, took mine back to Kmart, and got a refund.

[NJSwede]

Actually, you'd be hard pressed to find credible bad reviews of Orange receivers. They're surprisingly good considering the price. I have them in all my foamies and some of my cheaper balsa planes. What I once thought was a receiver problem turned out to be a servo of the El Crappo brand that locked up and sucked all the current out of the ESC. (I found that out by replacing rx and ESC and still having the same problem).

Now I'm sounding like a HK fan boy again. Sorry. But those little receivers are just a great value.

[dahawk]

Airmail,

I don't have anything in the squadron that's over 30 oz. but weight would be just part of the equation, right? f=ma A 1lb plane flying at 100mph has the same force impact as a 2lb plane flying at 50mph. So when my 1/2 lb foamie hit my buddy in the leg at 50mph and told him a Nolan Ryan fastball would have hurt a lot worse...

I have yet to hear complaints at our field about the knock off rx's failing not to say it's never happened or could ever happen but I would agree that when a 650 rotor is performing a wild and fast 3D maneuver in front of me, it would nice to know that the rx is the Real McCoy.

[airmail wf]

Originally Posted by NJSwede

Actually, you'd be hard pressed to find credible bad reviews of Orange receivers. They're surprisingly good considering the price. I have them in all my foamies and some of my cheaper balsa planes. What I once thought was a receiver problem turned out to be a servo of the El Crappo brand that locked up and sucked all the current out of the ESC. (I found that out by replacing rx and ESC and still having the same problem).

Now I'm sounding like a HK fan boy again. Sorry. But those little receivers are just a great value.

We all benefit from posts like this. This is how we find out about things that work and things that have problems.

I'm going to have to try some of thoses for my foamies. Now do I want the Spektrum ones or the Futaba ones?

[e-pilot]

Originally Posted by NJSwede

Actually, you'd be hard pressed to find credible bad reviews of Orange receivers. They're surprisingly good considering the price. I have them in all my foamies and some of my cheaper balsa planes. What I once thought was a receiver problem turned out to be a servo of the El Crappo brand that locked up and sucked all the current out of the ESC. (I found that out by replacing rx and ESC and still having the same problem).

Now I'm sounding like a HK fan boy again. Sorry. But those little receivers are just a great value.

Agreed. I fly Orange rx in many of my aircraft. My experience is that they either work out of the bag, or not.

If not, into the garbage, if they do, into the cheap foamie they go. I have had one that had some strange behavior. After powering up, it would not link to my transmitter until I powered off the transmitter and powered it back up again while the Rx was powered. Then, like magic, everything worked just fine. I still fly that rx almost every weekend (in a cheap foamie)

I ordered several as a club thing. I think I got 12. 4 for myself and 1 or 2 each for others in the club that wanted to try them out. I had good luck and only one went in the trash. The other club members had a lot less luck. (I swear I didn't test them before giving them out!)

One guy had to trash both that he got. Another just loved the one he got. The guy who mentioned 'infant mortality' is on the right track I think. If they work, they work, if they don't, trash 'em.

Believe it or not, I have an orange in my 90mm EDF L-39 which has perfromed flawlessly for over 6 months now. Why did I put an Orange in that plane? Well, I was pretty sure that the plane was such a P.O.S that it wouldn't even fly, so I didn't want to risk one of my pricey Spektrums. Well, it did fly. It flew great. I continues to fly great, with an Orange...

[solentlife]

As an onlooker ...... I fly FrSky and happy to fit to ANY model I fly.

I have trouble equating this clone Rx idea with small models and so-called brand Rx's with big. I've been RC'g for over 40 yrs .....

I was a devoted Futaba / JR man and like many others we watched this upstart cheap radio appear ... AM 27mHz format against all the others FM. We prophesised it's doom and poor quality, cheapness and models doomed to the bin. Today that company is still producing radios and in fact is a recognised brand now .. ACOMS

Anyway ... the same old arguments about no committing model to this ran then years ago ... time does not change the content.

Did those models fall out of the sky, did those cars crash ? boats sink ? Nope. The radio performed well alongside all the expensive Jr / Futaba / Sanwa gear etc.

The point is ........ humans have the habit of looking the "gift horse in the mouth" .....

It happens in all markets ..... Look at cars :

How do you double the value of a Skoda ? Fill the fuel tank

Why does a Lada have a heated rear window ? To keep hands warm when pushing

When appeared on flight line with my FlySky and FrSky .... odd comments of Nigel - think you better get a better radio ..... years later guess what ... I'm now not the only one on that same flight line with the FlySky / FrSky set-up. In fact others have swapped out their Hitec / JR modules for FrSky.
I know half the guys are running Orange / HK rx's ........ problems ? Nothing out of the usual run of the mill pilot error stuff.

[hayofstacks]

I am about to start a new job. I think my spectrum is going to be going away. I am leaning to a older fm futaba with model memory, or maye a cheaper off brand names I keep hearing thrown around. Or a module for the fm radio.

Spectrum does nothing for me. I flew for about 6 months (more then I do now) without a failure on fm. I have had four on spectrum in about 4 months. Considering I've had three planes in a year, its just not worth losing one to a radio "glitch" or "brownout". Two of tree planes are still flying, one suffered from hangar rash.

I have never used expo, I've never used dual rates. The only thing I have used is the timer, and I almost always forget to set it. I did play with flaps and mixing, but I have decided its more of a toy then useful on anything I fly. Then when you factor in a $60 receiver for one of my $25 to $100 planes, there is no reward there. I can buy a plane and a half for the price of two receivers. An fm one runs $10 all day long and I have crystals.