How to tame a Parkzone P-51 for indoor flight?

[calldaffer]

Okay...my father in law has a P-51 Mustang that he's flown once with a stock TX that came with his CX3 heli. Maiden flight he crashed and broke a tail rudder. The plane was way to fast for him to control outside along with compensating for wind. He would like to fly it indoors in our church gym however this plane is pretty fast.

I have a Dx6i and I'm guessing I can run a program through it that will slow down this plane enough for him to control it inside the gym. Am I right? I have only run programs for my helicopters so I really don't know anything about planes. I'm sure a lot of the same concepts apply but I thought I'd run the question through here for advice anyways. Does anyone have a good program they could share that would get me started? I'd want something that would slow the plane down quite a bit along with keeping him mashing on the controls when he panics and sending the plane out of control.

[swimmer]

Originally Posted by calldaffer

Okay...my father in law has a P-51 Mustang that he's flown once with a stock TX that came with his CX3 heli. Maiden flight he crashed and broke a tail rudder. The plane was way to fast for him to control outside along with compensating for wind. He would like to fly it indoors in our church gym however this plane is pretty fast.

I have a Dx6i and I'm guessing I can run a program through it that will slow down this plane enough for him to control it inside the gym. Am I right? I have only run programs for my helicopters so I really don't know anything about planes. I'm sure a lot of the same concepts apply but I thought I'd run the question through here for advice anyways. Does anyone have a good program they could share that would get me started? I'd want something that would slow the plane down quite a bit along with keeping him mashing on the controls when he panics and sending the plane out of control.

Wow...that is quite a request. It will be way too fast inside if you think it is fast outside. He needs to get a bunch more experience outside before bringing the P51 inside. You can add expo and run control surfaces at a minimum but without minimum flying skill he'll still crash it a bunch. The DX6i is a great radio but it is not magical and the only thing that slows down any plane is the left thumb. Good luck to you and especially your Dad. The answer...practice, practice and more practice. I had a lot of experience flying my UM Polecat and Corsair inside a double size plus basketball court and have have my complete attention to flying to maintain decent flight.

[calldaffer]

So there isn't anything that can slow it down with the TX enough to allow him to train on it? Did he buy too fast of a plane to learn on?

I am looking to get into planes as well but I have been looking at the Night Vapor because it seems to be very slow which is what I want to learn on. How much will the expo and control surfaces slow it down? Will that at least slow it down enough for him to train on it outdoors?

[rcers]

Originally Posted by calldaffer

So there isn't anything that can slow it down with the TX enough to allow him to train on it? Did he buy too fast of a plane to learn on?

I am looking to get into planes as well but I have been looking at the Night Vapor because it seems to be very slow which is what I want to learn on. How much will the expo and control surfaces slow it down? Will that at least slow it down enough for him to train on it outdoors?

O heavens no! Slow airplanes work for training - slow transmitters work for crashing.

The P51 is no trainer. You can use the throttle stick to slow it but it is quick and nothing will change that. Everyone wants to learn on a fighter, but not even the fighter pilots do that. You need a trainer.

Expo certainly brings value to the equation but it is not enough to compensate for poor trainer.

The Vapor is a better choice for him as well.

Mike

[calldaffer]

lol, well it sounds like he is just SOL then huh Maybe I'll buy the Night Vapor and let him borrow it then later down the road he can put the Mustang back up in the air. I appreciate the comments...very helpful.

[rcers]

You got it - Night Vapor. You will be amazed how much slower that flies. You will be up in no time. Then you can fly in your front room too!

Another good choice is the Champ.

Mike

[swimmer]

Indoors the Champ can be a handful for a newbie. Not nearly as fast as the P51 but still challenging for a new pilot. We fly several Champs indoors weekly and they are fun but may not be for a newbie either.

The Night Vapor, as mentioned, would be a much better airplane for your father in law and you. It's slow, agile and can teach most flight basics.

He just bought the wrong plane to learn on and a lot of people do. Heck, even investing in a simulator would be a great first step, for you too. We are all here to help you.

[swimmer]

Originally Posted by calldaffer

So there isn't anything that can slow it down with the TX enough to allow him to train on it? Did he buy too fast of a plane to learn on?

I am looking to get into planes as well but I have been looking at the Night Vapor because it seems to be very slow which is what I want to learn on. How much will the expo and control surfaces slow it down? Will that at least slow it down enough for him to train on it outdoors?

Let's see...no...yes...still not enough to learn on...and no. Short answers to your questions.

Tell you what, both of you buy Night Vapors. Fly together, learn together, crash together, repair together. Step up when you are ready or you may become frustrated. The Vapor is not totally crash resistant but will take a lot of abuse. When you think you got it mastered install a UM J3 Cub motor, direct replacement, it will allow you to do loops, inverted flight, fast circuits and stuff you never thought the Vapor could do.

[WayfaringDreamer]

Originally Posted by swimmer

When you think you got it mastered install a UM J3 Cub motor, direct replacement, it will allow you to do loops, inverted flight, fast circuits and stuff you never thought the Vapor could do.

Thanks for the tip! I've started thinking what motor/propeller combo might eke out some higher performance on my night vapor.

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Using lots of exponential makes these micro models a lot less twitchy to fly but there is no special 'trick' you can do with electronics to make a plane fly slower. The minimum flying speed of a plane is mainly down to wing loading so to fly slower either add wing area or reduce weight.. Basically this means you have the wrong plane.. sorry.

Steve

[Turner]

The Ember 2 is a good choice for an indoor trainer. A little faster than a vapor and probably more fun. I also tried to start out with the P-51 and failed miserably. Bought the Ember and was flying in no time.

[swimmer]

Originally Posted by WayfaringDreamer

Thanks for the tip! I've started thinking what motor/propeller combo might eke out some higher performance on my night vapor.

Use an original prop. No need for a different one. I can't imagine any other prop giving the Vapor more performance. The UM J3 Cub motor and the original prop are a good combo. After flying mine a while I looped some spiderwire through the wing support and CA'd the other ends to the carbon fiber fuselage. This keeps the wings from folding when you pull a high "G" maneuver and I can assure you the Vapor with this power combo will perform them. I telling ya, you won't believe the uptick in performance until you try it yourself. I really like mine and fly it almost weekly at our indoor site. Now the other guys are replacing their Vapor motors with the UM J3.

[BroncoSquid]

Any thoughts on putting a 2' or 3' by 1" plastic streamer 3 or 4 inches behind the tail? (like the one from a model rockett)That should give it some drag yet let it stay in the air. Just an idea?

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Originally Posted by BroncoSquid

Any thoughts on putting a 2' or 3' by 1" plastic streamer 3 or 4 inches behind the tail? (like the one from a model rockett)That should give it some drag yet let it stay in the air. Just an idea?

Thing is that minimum flying speed is nothing to do with drag.

The minimum flying speed for a plane is determined by the ability of the wings to make enough lift to support the plane's weight. The maximum lift the plame's wings can make is mainly result of how big they are (in area) and how fast they move through the air.
So in simple terms to give the plane the ability to fly slower you need either to make the wing area larger or make the plane's weight less.

[BroncoSquid]

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer

Thing is that minimum flying speed is nothing to do with drag.

The minimum flying speed for a plane is determined by the ability of the wings to make enough lift to support the plane's weight. The maximum lift the plame's wings can make is mainly result of how big they are (in area) and how fast they move through the air.
So in simple terms to give the plane the ability to fly slower you need either to make the wing area larger or make the plane's weight less.

I understand minimum flying speed. I was thinking about what the original poster had to work with. I was thinking more along the lines of limiting maximum speed. The UM P51 is a very fast plane, and dosn't slow down well. With the streamer, his overall top speed would be slower, and if he got into trouble, would slow down much faster with dropping throttle. Yes you would hit minimum flying speed faster, but if that becomes a problem, shorten the streamer. Once you get used to the speed, shorten the streamer, next thing you know you will be flying at full speed.

[hayofstacks]

When you were saying its too quick, did you mean how quickly the control surfaces hit? Is you controler capeable of expo? That will curve your stick response so you still have full throws but makes small corrections easier. You could also try dual rates. Unless I misunderstood.

[RMG]

Ok.. are we talking parkzone ultra micro p-51, OR a parkzone p-51 parkflyer???

I personally learned on the UMP-51. He needs to stay outdoors, but be sure to only fly when it is below 3mph wind at first. Early morning, or near sunset, until he gets the hang of it. The plane will never do well above 5-7mph winds, but flying indoors is not the answer, and takes skill that will only come in time.

[JetPlaneFlyer]

Originally Posted by RMG

Ok.. are we talking parkzone ultra micro p-51, OR a parkzone p-51 parkflyer???

It was posted in the indoor and micro furum

[RMG]

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer

It was posted in the indoor and micro furum

True, but since he asking about indoor flying (which would qualify by itself to be posted here), I am not trying to assume anything, but ask.

[Bill G]

Originally Posted by rcers

O heavens no! Slow airplanes work for training - slow transmitters work for crashing.

The P51 is no trainer. You can use the throttle stick to slow it but it is quick and nothing will change that. Everyone wants to learn on a fighter, but not even the fighter pilots do that. You need a trainer.

Expo certainly brings value to the equation but it is not enough to compensate for poor trainer.

The Vapor is a better choice for him as well.

Mike

That's pretty much along the lines of where I'm at. I just flew one of these for the first time a few weeks ago. A buddy had it, and it was beat to hell to boot. Still, I thought it was a pretty controllable and decent flying airplane that could easily be flown indoors. I think he just needs a bit more experience. Compared with planes like my much heavier sheeted Guillows 16" FW190, it was real floater.