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Old 05-05-2012, 06:42 AM   #1
Dragon Master
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Default Beginner landing on grass

My supper cub isn't here yet I also have PheonixV3 sim on order
I have been reading a lot of threads and most of the stickies in the beginner section
I live on a farm so I have a large grass area
I will be landing on grass about 2" or longer ( wife might kill me if i cut the full lawn 1" high LOL) and would like to know how i could best equip my supper cub

I live on a farm so I have a large grass area

I have read that you can take off the landing gear and land on the belly, was told adding larger wheels is just a waste as far as grass landings
With belly landing I feel the plane will be to close to the ground and could be hard on it

I saw the video where he hovered the plane and and just grabbed it
Hoping to do that some day But am sure that will take a lot of skill

Also saw that you can take off from the hand thought that would help for wear and tare on the cub,do you just hold it rev her up and give it a little push?

I am sure i will have a lot more questions as i go

Thanks in advance
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:51 AM   #2
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Landing on the grass won't hurt the plane at all, generally. I belly land most of my planes on grass - Mini Super Cub, Stryker, wings, Radian, P-51 etc.

If you're worried, two things to consider are:
  • Using a prop saver.
  • Putting some packing tape on the bottom of the plane to protect the foam.

The only planes I don't land on tall grass are the ones with fixed landing gear (e.g. my Tiger Moth.)

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Old 05-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
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We have a grass field with some armadillo pot holes though we've now leveled it and are planting some hybrid bermuda.

Last summer, the Super Cub had a hard time r.o.g. with the stock wheels so I changed them to 2.5" dia Dubro's. You have to trim the skirts to do this.

Personally, I like the look of a scale landing on gear but do whatever works best for you. Nobody's watching... However, like Mclarkson mentioned, you can easily hand launch and belly land this plane. The prop saver is a good thing. The only thing to look for on a hard landing, belly or not, is when you actually bend the prop shaft. Not a show stopper either. This baby can take some abuse.

Make sure you change your rubber bands regularly. One thing that does happen on the Cub is the fit of the wing starts to get a little loose (fore and aft) where it sits in the saddle on top of the fuse. I shaped and glued a couple of of popsicle sticks to the fuse where the rear of the wing sits.

You'll have loads of fun with the Cub ! But that only is the start of the addiction.

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Old 05-05-2012, 04:16 PM   #4
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You can in fact land your model in grass with wheels still fitted - but its a technique you have to learn. If you land normally - you will strain the wheels, flip the model and likely bend or break something.

But if you can glide her in ... literally stop her JUST before she touches by flaring - if you get it right she will sit down on ground with literally no fwd movement. Trouble is any gust, glitch in your performance and she'll flip or dip a wing.

2" grass is a forest to the average model .....

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Old 05-05-2012, 05:00 PM   #5
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Thanks for all the info

I think i will try to land with the landing gear first
I will be sure to get a prop protector along with the 2.5 in wheels

I can see that 2" grass would be a forest the supper cub
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #6
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You can land on grass, but a way to stop it from roling onto its nose on landing is to have a bit of power on while your on the ground. Flareing does work well once you learn the plane, but you need to have a good feel for it.

Laeger wheel will help some, but remember your trying to fly it in the air, not drive on the ground. Flying above the ground isn't much different from barely touching it. As long as you can take off of the grass, you shouldn't have any problem landing it. While taking off, put a tiny bit of elevator into it to stop nosing over, but be careful to not give it too much, so you don't stall on take off by nosing up to high.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
You can land on grass, but a way to stop it from roling onto its nose on landing is to have a bit of power on while your on the ground. Flareing does work well once you learn the plane, but you need to have a good feel for it.

Laeger wheel will help some, but remember your trying to fly it in the air, not drive on the ground. Flying above the ground isn't much different from barely touching it. As long as you can take off of the grass, you shouldn't have any problem landing it. While taking off, put a tiny bit of elevator into it to stop nosing over, but be careful to not give it too much, so you don't stall on take off by nosing up to high.

If I am understanding you correct you are telling me to add a little throttle once i touch down to keep the nose up
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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No ! Bad advice IMO Addng throttle raises the tail

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Old 05-05-2012, 09:34 PM   #9
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Adding throttle keeps the plane moving forwards. It does not raise the tail unless you tell it to, and you want to tail lower then your nose. If your not moving fast enough, or have enough force keeping the plane moving forwards, your going to nose over. This is going to be even more important if you plane to flare just before touch. You need air moving over the tail to flare, and elevator will keep the tail down as you touch. Your nose wheel (if trycicle gear) shouldn't touch until your stopped. If its a tail dragger, you should try to 3 point it, but barely having the main gear touch first.

Have you ever tried to do touch and goes with a slow stick on wet heavy grass? Even with the landing gear touching the motor, it will still nose over if your not careful dead stick. Just a touch of throttle keeps the right side up. Also having just a touch of throttle will actually keep the plane moving slower then it does gliding. Then to keep forwards momentum you will need to increase throttle if you want to keep it moving. It should be a slow and gradual decrease in speed. Not a plop in under full stall. Well at least not until you really understand the plane.

What I do flying even on a hard surface, I slow the plane down doing a low pass, chop the throttle to maybe 10%, and then slowly add up elevator until the plane lands itself. Time your flar properly, and it just stops. This way your tail acts almost as flaps. But it is a blancing act and will be dificult to do if you don't have the feeling of the plane down.

A beginner should just fly it into the ground. Just slowly chop your throttle until your just buzzing the ground, and as you touch add a bt of up elevator( to set down, not enough to stall), and slowly let off tthrottle. I wish I had a video of a grass landing, but I try not to fly on it anymore. Just a lot harder on wire landing gear then asphalt.

But you can watch how I touch down here. The same should apply to grass, just increase your speed a bit to keep it moving forwards instead of just stopping.

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=repra...?v=YKa9mqKVzog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKa9mqKVzog
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:25 AM   #10
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I use 3" Du-bro Super Lite Wheels on longish grass and rough ground and if makes a huge difference. I used one of the standard front wheels to make a tail wheel. Requires a little ingenuity to adapt them but it is well worth the effort.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:03 AM   #11
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What you need is a set of wheels from a Multiplex Fun Cub. Them suckers are huge but light as a feather. Look likr Tundra Tires on Bush Planes. You can land on 5 inch tall grass with them.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:26 AM   #12
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Cant wait to get her , play with the simulator for a bit and put her in the air
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:22 AM   #13
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Later may consider a glider, your grass area is absolutely perfect for these, catch a thermal and your hooked, Radian a proven performer, loved mine.

Gliders have extended wings, just watch your hat, actually no damage, is only ducted I've been able to fly with ease.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWPV...e_gdata_player
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by phillipmorris View Post
Later may consider a glider, your grass area is absolutely perfect for these, catch a thermal and your hooked, Radian a proven performer, loved mine.

Gliders have extended wings, just watch your hat, actually no damage, is only ducted I've been able to fly with ease.

LOL that is funny

Finely got the sim still having a hard time landing on the sim
with out the sim I'm sure would have to buy a truck load of plane parts
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:57 PM   #15
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Simply takes practice on landings, even drop on the nose adds airspeed on deadstick, just keep things flying. Each model has some specific handling. Hang in there with the sim, eventually things improve, work for controlled landings and target the areas so your flying the plane not the plane flying you.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:39 PM   #16
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Remember: when landing, set up on your approach and then use throttle for altitude, and pitch for speed. It's sorta opposite the way you usually think about those controls.

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Old 05-20-2012, 02:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Remember: when landing, set up on your approach and then use throttle for altitude, and pitch for speed. It's sorta opposite the way you usually think about those controls.

I will give it a try thanks
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:38 AM   #18
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Dragon...

I fly alot of scale J3 Piper Cubs (42" wing span).......all are tail draggers not tricyle landing gear. The most common method for landing we tail draggers use is called a flair or stall......regardless of the landing surface.

As you make your approach, at first, give yourself plenty of runway. Bring the Cub into a head wind, about 15' to 20' high, slowly reduce the throttle while feathering the elevator in order to keep the nose up a little, forcing the tail below the nose at all times. Let her gently drop with throttle nearly off. Since she is a highwing, she should glide while the tail gear starts to drag on the surface. Cut the power (throttle) completly level your elevator and she should hit wheels to the ground with a little bounce (depending on the wind conditions).........just be carefull not to keep the nose up to much...just enough to keep lift under the wings in order to flair.

This method is not what the guys who fly tricycle gear set-ups use...although it can be accomplished by an experinced pilot...since those have a landing wheel under the nose and need to be more level rather than tail heavy when landing.

As far as grass surfaces, the bigger the wheels, the better. At least 1.5" to 2" and no wheel skirts or low hanging cross bar supports. I've modified all of my J3's since I fly at soccer fields and the grass is never the same height each trip. It will mostly effect your take-offs. Landings, if flaired properly, will just have a little more drag but more cushion if you tip or flop the landing.

Hope this helps you out......plenty of sim practice with a tail dragger will give you more confidence...but nothing substitutes the real thing....just take your time...IMO, highwing tail draggers are the best to learn on......much more forgiving!
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:25 AM   #19
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Technically you should always land in a full stall and use theground to stop you. As soon as the nose gear touches it should be stopped or close to it. With a tail dragger, elevator is used to keep your tail on the ground, and speed should be low enough to keep you from a bounce. You don't touch aleroins much if at all, and use your rudder to keep it straight.

Personally, I like to land with the tail dragging on my trike gear models. You just touch the main gear, then put full elevator in it to bleed of your speed and if you do it right, it puts you in a full stall right as your gear touches and brings down the nose for a solid 3 point landing.

Putting in lots of elevator keeps your nose high and the prop out of the grass. Having power on while landing a tail dragger both slightly slows you down, and keeps air over the tail, keeping it down, and stopping you from nosing over.

When I was having problems with my landings, I just did touch and goes until I had them figured out. Best way to learn is to do it. Anyone that says I don't know how to land a plane can watch the video I linked to and see how its done. It just takes practice.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:21 AM   #20
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hayofstacks......

Technically, a "full stall" does not work for all planes, not even all highwings...technically!...the ground should slow you down, not stop you unless you've crashed....lol

I believe the landing aspects for a tricycle "3 point" (like the vid you posted), from a TX stick management aspect, are a bit different than that of a flair tail drag....but I won't belabor the point.....you should not need power to flair in a head wind with a highwing (cub), just enough initial approach speed.....needing power is a misconception!....... To much "up elevator" will slow the highwing down to a tip stall, you only need enough to keep the tail down and lift under the wings......

Doing touch and goes for a begginer is not an easy task......it's much easier to land it than risking bad judgement when pulling up from a stall 2" off the ground......my goodness!

I'm a little concerned about advise coming from an experinced pilot that states he flies a Slow Stick in +20mph winds....a SS won't even stay down on a landing strip with winds over 7mph, let alone trying to take off in a windy condition...who's kidding who here?

Dude, I'm not trying to put you down, but your advise is a little over the top and exaggerated, to say the least. When trying to convey information to beginners in a beginner forum, one may consider sticking to reality and keeping the info basic, consise and less fluff.....lol....we are trying to give them proven, uncomplicated tips that will save them time and money....not have them running away from the hobby due to confusion and frustration because "some guy on the forum said this will work".....and it didn't.

It's not personal my friend, everyone is entited to an opinion. But exaggerations only benefit the guy telling the story....not the guy who needs help!

Peace!
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:17 AM   #21
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thanks for all the input
Need to finish seeding my crop then i will have time to get this bird in the air
Hopefully with out crashing
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:12 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
hayofstacks......

Technically, a "full stall" does not work for all planes, not even all highwings...technically!...the ground should slow you down, not stop you unless you've crashed....lol

I believe the landing aspects for a tricycle "3 point" (like the vid you posted), from a TX stick management aspect, are a bit different than that of a flair tail drag....but I won't belabor the point.....you should not need power to flair in a head wind with a highwing (cub), just enough initial approach speed.....needing power is a misconception!....... To much "up elevator" will slow the highwing down to a tip stall, you only need enough to keep the tail down and lift under the wings......

Doing touch and goes for a begginer is not an easy task......it's much easier to land it than risking bad judgement when pulling up from a stall 2" off the ground......my goodness!

I'm a little concerned about advise coming from an experinced pilot that states he flies a Slow Stick in +20mph winds....a SS won't even stay down on a landing strip with winds over 7mph, let alone trying to take off in a windy condition...who's kidding who here?

Dude, I'm not trying to put you down, but your advise is a little over the top and exaggerated, to say the least. When trying to convey information to beginners in a beginner forum, one may consider sticking to reality and keeping the info basic, consise and less fluff.....lol....we are trying to give them proven, uncomplicated tips that will save them time and money....not have them running away from the hobby due to confusion and frustration because "some guy on the forum said this will work".....and it didn't.

It's not personal my friend, everyone is entited to an opinion. But exaggerations only benefit the guy telling the story....not the guy who needs help!

Peace!
Where was there exageration? I flew my slow stick everyday for about 6 months, through the whole winter, wind, snow, rain, or night. And I am a beginner, I have had a slow stick which I flew for about 6 months, a mini stick I crashed for a month straight, then my alpha. I have only been flying since last october, and I didn't even have a simulator to practice on. However, not only was I running a larger battery (1800mah) and a 450 sized motor and. 40 amp speed control.

I also broke my wing while flying in a bit of a storm, I had full throttle in it to keep it in the feild, and full down to keep it close to the ground. The wind caught the plane, pitched it up and split the wing. After I braced it, using left overs from a kite, it could take much more wind, and much tighter loops.

If you read about what the op was having trouble with, it was keeping the shinny side up when landing on grass. Keeping power on and throwing some elevator into it keeps the tail down. Slowly cutting throttle will bring you. To a nice and easy stop, while keeping the nose up. It is even easier to do this with a tail dragger then a trike gear, but the landing principal is the same, if you are trying to get the plane as slow as possible.

Also leaving the throttle on just slightly, it will slow the plane down more then if the prop if free spinning, or stopped. It also stops the plane from stopping, as opposed to having it just stop.

Touch and goes are the best way to learn your planes flying abilities and stalls.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:45 AM   #23
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I've been reading through this I must say hayofstacks methods do make sense to me. I have a Mini Switch, and have had issues with bending motor shafts because of noseovers. A few good landings that I had (and this is with wheels pants) We simply having the plane practically stopped so that when the plane touched the ground, it simply didn't go forward, thus stopping any potential nose over. It is difficult to get used to practically stalling the plane, but it works. What I mainly tried was to cut down throttle to 1/4 or so and let the plane come down, then play with the elevator to keep the tail down and allow the plane to slow. At about 3-4 feet from the ground, cut the throttle and continue to play with the elevator. Inches before touching the ground, you essentially cause it to stall, and the plane just plants itself on the ground. It is hard to get used to, because you are always close to a stall and it feels uncomfortable, unlike cutting throttle to 1/4 and keeping up airspeed away from the stall and having the plane roll on the ground a fair distance.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:54 AM   #24
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I love all the advice about what to do .........

Problem is - you only have a split second to do something ... you've lined her up ... she's on a nice glide slope in .. everything's looking great ... and BHAM !

To "thepiper92" .... the 'landing' in this did no damage at all to shaft, prop or model apart from bending the wheels back a touch ... but I have to laugh !! It does it quite often on this ground ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkYnSwuHk9U

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Old 11-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #25
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I had to watch the landing twice to figure out exactly what happened there. cool to get that one on film.

as far as landings go, every plane I've flown is slightly different. somethings work well while others don't. you just gotta find what works for you.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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