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Old 07-15-2012, 04:36 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
It's funny how that works. I started doing what I would call a spiral dive a few weeks ago (need to find a list of maneuvers and find the real term). Basically, full aileron, full up elevator until I go into a corkscrew toward the ground. I'll wings level and pull out to level flight at about 10 feet. First couple of times had me holding my breath. Now, it doesn't even raise my pulse.

Inverted is another story. Adrenaline all the way.
That would pretty much be a spiral dive, but why do that since it is not a contest maneuver. Why not practice something like a spin instead. All you have to do it add rudder to what you are already doing, but enter it right from a full stall. The name of the game is precession maneuver, not flop around the sky and play at something. If you practice bad habits it will be that much harder to do them right later. Do a full stall and let the nose drop before you apply elevator and rudder. You can throw in ailerons if you like, but not all planes require that. If your wing goes over the top during the start of this, you are not at a full stall. What you are doing then is a snap roll into a spin and they take points for that.

Doing acrobatics is fun and takes a lot of skill to do properly and it takes practice to do them right. Like anything else, it takes dedication and lots of practice to get good at it. When you do get good, you will be able to fly any plane and make a good account of yourself. You will also be one of the club instructors and get to teach others to fly. You would not believe the amount of satisfaction you get out of helping someone learn to fly.

If you want a good plane to practice pattern flying on, you can get something like a Tower Sportster electric and NOT the foam one. Get the balsa model and you will need a bigger battery then normal. It takes a big battery to get the CG right. About a 3600MAh 3S will get you there and give you a long flying time. I have a 4000MAh battery in mine and get around 30 minuets and I normally just make two flight between charging instead of one long one. It's a slick plane, so let the prop windmill to help slow you down.

You guys are doing great and from the sound of things, you should start relaxing in about another week or so. Just don't get to relaxed. That leads to major repairs or a new plane.

Ed
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:53 AM   #52
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mred,

Good point on doing things right from the beginning. I saw a guy at the field doing flat spins one day with a 3D plane. This was my closest approximation with a high wing trainer.

This brings up a question I was going to ask soon anyway. What should I work on next? Inverted is something I need to learn and that's going to take a while. But if I want to learn more maneuvers, is there a good book or video that will show the basic maneuvers? Or do I just ask the 3D guys at the field questions? I may never do acrobatic competition, but I would like to get better.

And to everyone, this is a blast! I love flying. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:00 AM   #53
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And is this the version you are referring too?

http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../gpma1161.html
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
And is this the version you are referring too?

http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../gpma1161.html
Thats a super tried and true sweetheart and I always wanted one as well,, I would also suggest the Mini pluse,, the best upside downsy plane ever in my book,, had one I built out of three busted up one's Mustangman ( wattflyers long time propellor head)gave me years back, thing loves inverted and has NO Bad Habbit's at all, rock soild, bubsteve

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Old 07-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
And is this the version you are referring too?

http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../gpma1161.html
She's on sale for 89.99 !!! I gotta get me one now,, Thanks MX5,,bubsteve
REQUIRES: Radio: 4 channel with micro receiver Servos: 3 micro Motor: Brushless outrunner type ESC: 45A for brushless motors Battery: 11.1V LiPo, 3200 - 3700mAh (GPMP0727) Battery Charger: LiPo compatible Cell Balancer: For battery listed above Building and field equipment
SPECS: Wingspan: 48" (1220mm) Wing Area: 383 sq in (24.7 sq dm) Weight: 2.7 - 3 lb (1250 - 1360 g) Wing Loading: 17 - 18 oz/sq ft (52 - 55 g/sq dm) Length: 39" (990mm) Airfoil: Semi-Symmetrical Center of Gravity: 2" (70mm) Back from the wing's leading edge at the fuselage sides. Incidence: Stabilizer: 0 Main Wing: 1 Thrust Angle: Down 3; Right 2 Control Throws- Low Rate High Rate Ailerons: Up & Down 1/4" (6mm) 16 3/8" (10mm) 25 Elevator: Up & Down 3/8" (10mm) 9 1/2" (13mm) 12


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Old 07-15-2012, 06:53 PM   #56
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Yeah Steve, that looks like a really good price. I need to find a build thread on it to see what setup people use on it. The recommended motor costs almost as much as the kit. If that's the best one to use, I'd use it. But may as well look at the options.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:25 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
Yeah Steve, that looks like a really good price. I need to find a build thread on it to see what setup people use on it. The recommended motor costs almost as much as the kit. If that's the best one to use, I'd use it. But may as well look at the options.
2409-18 outie & 25 ESC Combo, 19$, four 3.00$ tower-pro servos, 10/4.5 or 9/6 prop 2bucksall hobby-king stuff, Flys Great, one of my Faves, bubsteve


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Old 07-16-2012, 02:20 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
And is this the version you are referring too?

http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../gpma1161.html
That be the one. I ordered a second one and probably got the last of the old ones. Right after I ordered mine they started advertising this one. Mine was set up for the speed 600 motor and NiCads, but that got changed before I even flew it the first time.

There may be need of one mod on this new one, but I can't say as I don't have it, but on the old one, the pushrods are way to thin. They need to be bigger or you will get flutter at higher speeds. Other then that, it flies fantastic and you can do just about anything with it. Flies just as good inverted and right side up.

My motor is a Tower Pro 2915, but I think that one is off the market now. There are a lot of motors that will fit this plane great and you don't have to put a lot of money in them. $15.00 is about the max for a motor and I use a 30A ESC and 4000MAH 3S battery. Regardless what motor you use, you need this bigger battery to get the CG right. The nose was designed with a speed 600 and NiCads in mind, so you have to make up for the difference in weight. You can put a smaller battery in there, but then you have to add led and I would rather have more flying time. I use a 9X6 prop and get about 30 minuets flying time on one charge. I normally break that down to two flight of around 12 to 14 minuets and land with plenty left in the battery from the second flight.

My forst plane I started with a KDA 22-20L motor and at 200 watts it flew great. I have had 4 different motors in there and it has flown great on all of them, but some were a little better then others. Anything above 200 watts is plenty for this plane. My present motor is a 350 watt motor, but I only pull about 275 watts on it. It flies great there, so any motor around that is fine. You don't have to worry about getting their motor as a lot of motors will work fine.

One thing about the ailerons though. It only has one servo which is fine, but make sure they are FREE and don't bind or restrict the throw any. It is not really a park flyer, but if you have a good size park you should be OK. Just be aware that it is kind of fast for a park flyer and it takes a lot of room to land. It is sleek and doesn't like to slow down, so I leave the motor break off and let the prop freewheel. I would also leave the wheel pants off at least for awhile as they will go through the wing on a hard landing. I have black wheel marks on the bottom of my wing from a hard landing and if the wheel pants were on there, I would have had two nice holes in there. On grass, you can forget them, but on pavement they really look nice. Just make sure you slow it down good and don't land fast. That's how I got my wheel marks on mine, landing to fast and forcing it down on the runway. I was in a hurry to get it down because I wanted to beat the rain that was coming. Beat the rain, banged up the wing a little. No holes, but those wheel skid marks don't come off.

With this thing on sale, you can't beat the price and it would be hard to find a better flying plane.

Ed
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:20 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
Thats a super tried and true sweetheart and I always wanted one as well,, I would also suggest the Mini pluse,, the best upside downsy plane ever in my book,, had one I built out of three busted up one's Mustangman ( wattflyers long time propellor head)gave me years back, thing loves inverted and has NO Bad Habbit's at all, rock soild, bubsteve
My dad just bought one and loves it. It will do most manuvers. We haven't really tried to knife edge it. Its still new enough, I am going to wait for my dad to scratch it up more before I try it out.

We have had two rather large problems with it though. It just drops out of the sky, stall seems unpredictable. As long as you keep your speed up, it seems okay. We might need to move our batteries forwards more, were running 1800's instead of 2100's. Second flight, hit the prop a bit on stall. Plane seemed to be fine, no damage to prop. Lost battery hatch on next flight. Flight after that, the motor broke off on landing, whole firewall just fell off infront of the landing gear. The covering stayed on and it swung under the wing and put two holes in hem from the prop. A bit of glue and it was okay. The ca didn't soak into the wood at all. The landing gear block also worked loos, but didn't come out. A touch of ca and it was fine.

Overall, very good flying plane though. We get about 15 mins out of it, haven't hit lvc yet. Just throw a bit of ca on the firewall and landing gear block and it should do fine. We decided we lost the hatch because the firewall must have been slightly loose and allowed it to slip off in flight.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:49 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
mred,

Good point on doing things right from the beginning. I saw a guy at the field doing flat spins one day with a 3D plane. This was my closest approximation with a high wing trainer.

This brings up a question I was going to ask soon anyway. What should I work on next? Inverted is something I need to learn and that's going to take a while. But if I want to learn more maneuvers, is there a good book or video that will show the basic maneuvers? Or do I just ask the 3D guys at the field questions? I may never do acrobatic competition, but I would like to get better.

And to everyone, this is a blast! I love flying. Thanks for all the help.
I really don't know if there are any videos out there on pattern flying, but you can get the pattern maneuvers from any AMA instructions for the pattern or you can get them from just about anywhere that has that in the contest agenda. 3D is quite a bit different and requires a different plane. I don't care much about 3D, but I love doing pattern flying. I don't go to contests either, but it will improve you flying if you can do them all. You don't have to get to be an expert at them, but you would be surprised at the number of people that can't do simple rolls. Anyone can do one, but try putting three of them together and see how fast the plane heads down. As for 4 and 8 point rolls, not many people can do them at all and forget about top hats and figure M's. That is unheard of in their mind. They couldn't even start one because they don't know how they are done. They also can't do a PROPER Cuban 8 and it is one of the easier ones to do.

Now don't get me wrong, I can't do the pattern anymore either, but I am trying to learn it again. I used to be able to do it and it is not the easiest thing in the world to do, but with practice, you get better as time goes on.

If you want to try one, try this. Pick up some speed in level flight. Full power if you weren't already there, pull to the vertical and wait 1 second half roll and fly vertical 1 more second. Pull over the top to level inverted flight and fly 2 seconds and throttle all the way back to idle and then pull down, (that's UP on the stick) and fly vertical 1 second then do another half roll and wait 1 second and then pull out to level flight. That is a top hat and it is hard to do it right, but easy to do sloppy.

I'll look around and see if I can find you some drawings on the different maneuvers and how they are flown.

Ed
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:37 AM   #61
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OK, I found some reading for you. This is the SPA rules and how each flight is judged and why points are taken off for doing something wrong. They don't call it precession for nothing.

http://www.seniorpattern.com/improve/

This is how you do a figure M and the points taken off for messing it up. If you look to the left, it will have all the things you need to do to fly the pattern and how each is done along with down grades.

You can download this guide and it should help you some on all of this;
http://www.seniorpattern.com/compguide.htm

There are other sites that will help you, but I like this one as it is an active pattern site and just does the OLD pattern work. None of this is 3D however and if you want to learn that, you will need to find a 3D site to learn all those. I have enough problems trying to do these without adding to my work load and frustrations. Hope this helps you some.

Ed
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:40 AM   #62
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Thanks Ed! I have some night time reading to do now.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:15 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by hayofstacks View Post
My dad just bought one and loves it. It will do most manuvers. We haven't really tried to knife edge it. Its still new enough, I am going to wait for my dad to scratch it up more before I try it out.

We have had two rather large problems with it though. It just drops out of the sky, stall seems unpredictable. As long as you keep your speed up, it seems okay. We might need to move our batteries forwards more, were running 1800's instead of 2100's. Second flight, hit the prop a bit on stall. Plane seemed to be fine, no damage to prop. Lost battery hatch on next flight. Flight after that, the motor broke off on landing, whole firewall just fell off in front of the landing gear. The covering stayed on and it swung under the wing and put two holes in hem from the prop. A bit of glue and it was okay. The ca didn't soak into the wood at all. The landing gear block also worked loos, but didn't come out. A touch of ca and it was fine.

Overall, very good flying plane though. We get about 15 mins out of it, haven't hit lvc yet. Just throw a bit of ca on the firewall and landing gear block and it should do fine. We decided we lost the hatch because the firewall must have been slightly loose and allowed it to slip off in flight.
I would not use CA for ANY glue joints that have plywood in it. For one thing, it is to brittle and it also doesn't hold very well. I always use Epoxy on plywood joints and have never had one break off. Either ply to ply or ply to balsa always get epoxy and I have yet to regret it. If you have tried gluing the joint once and it has failed, then you should never use CA a second time as it has nothing to soak into. The second time around you have no choice in using something other then CA, or it will fall off again. I may use CA to pin something together, but I never use it to glue a joint. Just to brittle for my blood. I have found it very hard to use like a pin with plywood joints though and have them constantly fail on me before I can get the epoxy on.

I don't know how slow you are flying your plane when it drops out of the sky, but it sounds a little like a CG problem. No matter what battery you have in there, you must get the right CG or you can get in trouble with it. Check your CG and make sure it is in the right place. Good luck with your new bird.

Ed
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:30 AM   #64
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getting a lot of inverted practice in with the uproar,able to do figure 8's as of yesturday. did take some videos and down loaded on you tube. i really need to learn how to download music.

i'll post the vid taken by my keychain camera mounted on my caps visor,its 8 mins long and i tried clipping it only to get annoying static. the altitude is way up 3 or 4 mistakes high so squint real hard and you'll see the top side of the roar is red,bottom is yellow.


go to the 4 minute mark and stop at 6 min mark....it was windy today so don't watching the landing.

8:49Watch Later Error
15 minutes ago
flying the uproar invert

just begining to get the inverted turning down better

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #65
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Great going stuart. Like they say, practice makes perfect. I'm still working on my inverted flying too. It's easier the second times around, but I still make mistakes. I may catch then easier now, but I still mess up now and then. Keep it up and before you know it, you will be flying inverted with the best of them.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:30 PM   #66
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Well, my Super Sportster is on the way. May be a while before I can put this one together, but I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:04 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
Well, my Super Sportster is on the way. May be a while before I can put this one together, but I'm looking forward to it.
Alright,, Have Fun!! Bubsteve


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Old 07-24-2012, 02:08 AM   #68
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Take your time and do a good job and you will have a great flying plane. I love mine and am looking forward to getting my second one going. I little more trim and a couple of servos and mine will be ready to go...............

Ed
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:23 AM   #69
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Ed,

I plane to take a while on this one for a couple of reasons. One is just the amount of time I have to work on it. Second, I still want to do some more research on the motor/ESC combination to use. And I want to research the control rods they use. I've seen some alternatives that might make sense. We'll see.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:41 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by mred View Post
I would not use CA for ANY glue joints that have plywood in it. For one thing, it is to brittle and it also doesn't hold very well. I always use Epoxy on plywood joints and have never had one break off. Either ply to ply or ply to balsa always get epoxy and I have yet to regret it. If you have tried gluing the joint once and it has failed, then you should never use CA a second time as it has nothing to soak into. The second time around you have no choice in using something other then CA, or it will fall off again. I may use CA to pin something together, but I never use it to glue a joint. Just to brittle for my blood. I have found it very hard to use like a pin with plywood joints though and have them constantly fail on me before I can get the epoxy on.

I don't know how slow you are flying your plane when it drops out of the sky, but it sounds a little like a CG problem. No matter what battery you have in there, you must get the right CG or you can get in trouble with it. Check your CG and make sure it is in the right place. Good luck with your new bird.

Ed
I agree completely.

The ca was a feild repair. We drive about 30 minutes to the salt flts, so a loose landing gear block can be a pain. We used a bit of baking soda to fill the gaps, and a good hobby store brand super glue. We have used the salt flat dirt as a filler as well. The eflight arf's seem to be build only with ca, and the glue joint was no good to begin with.

My dad's been flying for almost 40 years, and has a good idea of how to build and repair planes.

One day I piled in my trainer, tearing the rear wingblock out, and the front plywood part that the pins go into. I also broke part of the front fuse. With a bit of backing soda and ca, it was as strong as it was before. However, my landing gear block didn't stay in. I plan on going back over it with some epoxy when I need to tear it back down.


Back on topic though, I am starting to get down inverted with my alpha though. It takes quite a bit of throttle with how much elevator I have to keep in it. It helps to start off with a fresh battery. I am getting used to just putting the right amount of elevator in it to keep it level and maintain altitude. I can do several curcuits and have done a couple inverted 8's now.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:39 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by MX5Seeker View Post
Ed,

I plane to take a while on this one for a couple of reasons. One is just the amount of time I have to work on it. Second, I still want to do some more research on the motor/ESC combination to use. And I want to research the control rods they use. I've seen some alternatives that might make sense. We'll see.
There is nothing that says that you have the finish a model in record time. I never set a finish date and get it done when it is done. My second Sportster has been sitting for awhile because I have to get some more servos and the first is still flying good, so I am not in a hurry to finish it.

My motor is a Turnigy 35 48 900 and that seems to be a great motor for them, but not the only one that will work by any means. I use a 30A ESC since I am only drawing 25A at full throttle. I have had other motors in there and a 200 watt motor with a 9X6 prop does fine as long as you are not interested in those 300 foot loops. I had a KDA22 20L in there for awhile and it flew OK. I use an 11X5.5 prop and that seems to fit my flying style perfect.

As for that pushrod, it is junk and WILL cause flutter some time or other. I replaced mine with a Sullivan plastic type and except for the trim changing on hot days, it works great. I had flutter on the elevator twice and I was lucky each time and didn't crash, but I changed it out after that. Now I never have flutter and it flies much better. The stock one is simply to thin.

I use HS 82 servos and while they may be more then you need, that is probably what saved me. If I had HS 81's in there, I don't think the gear would have taken that flutter.

Ed
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:33 PM   #72
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HS 82s look like a reasonable choice. I will probably go with them on this plane too.

As for motors, I was looking at this one from Heads Up RC:

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

Dimensions are close to the recommended Rimfire, 920kv, and with a 11x7e, they say 63 oz of thrust at 35 amp. I was originally thinking a 40 amp ESC, but I think 45 would be safer.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:39 PM   #73
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That looks like a great motor. I normally don't use that much prop on mine. I just use an 11X5.5 and it flies fine. I'm not really interested in speed, but I like pulling power and that works fine for me. I used a 12X5 a couple of times, but i like the 11" prop better.

Unless you plan on running at full throttle all the time, that 40A would be fine. I normally throttle back for most of the flight and my ESC, motor, and battery come down cool. I could pull more power out of mine, but I just don't see where it is necessary. I like the way mine flies now. It makes for a longer flight too. You can use the bigger one if it makes you feel better. There is plenty of room in there for it.

Good luck on the plane. I think you will really enjoy flying it. I know I have and a couple of others at my field have one too. I think they got theirs after seeing mine fly. The one thing that I would change is it is so slick. That makes it kind of hard to slow down on landing. Wish it had flaps.

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Old 07-26-2012, 12:10 AM   #74
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I fly from two fields. One is a field in Sautee that is by invitation. It has great Bermuda grass runway that is kept pretty short. The family that owns it bought two, powered reel mowers to keep it cut. The other is in Clermont and has a fabric runway. If I fly right, I should have plenty of room to roll it in on either one. I did get the fiberglass gear, so hopefully I won't experience the normal bent gear problems.

Thanks a lot for your help Ed. I appreciate it!
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:34 AM   #75
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If you have that landing gear, then landings on grass should be a snap. I have flown from grass for a long time and like it. It just takes a little getting used to sometimes. It makes it a lot easier on the prop too. Good luck with the new plane and let us know how it flies.........................

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