Good PSU Match For The Power Lab 6?

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by Gregor

While this true from a billing perspective, power factor is an issue for a modeler running off a generator. Also, when you get into these larger charger setups you can trip the breaker on a 120 AC outlet even with APFC supplies. Without APFC you'll trip the breaker much sooner.

Yeah
Thought of that while writing the posting above. I've got a Cellpro Powerlab 8 that can pull 500 watts on 12VDC input, which translates to about 5 amps at 120 VAC. That's way below the dual 15 amp breakers on my 3500 watt generator. That generator is not really portable though, it weighs well over 100 pounds.

So, to simplify, I built this thing this spring. Really works well, and can put out some 65 Amps DC at 12 Volts AC. That corresponds to charging my 12S2P A123 pack as a 6S4P pack, with the charging rate set at 30 amperes.

The Alternator cost about $70, the engine cost $99 from Harbor Freight, a 212 cc gas engine on sale. Aluminum plates were about $30. This could be built with nothing more than a hacksaw and a drill. I do have a metal cutting band saw to make it a lot less work. Did have to add a spring loaded idler pulley, that short belt was getting torn up every 40 charge cycles or so.

This setup allows about four flights on my Giant Scale 3KW model while using about a quart of gasoline.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66066

[spad]

Originally Posted by 1heli

Hi Gregor,
Must thank you for taking the time to give such a good reply, much obliged to you.

with regards to these server psu I have seen some on sale with 24volts I would not be able to make them up..

this I have being reading and is a terrific saving over the opposition.

The above is a very difficult one to answer I do not intend to go beyound 500/600 size Heli LOGO/SAB or similar..I get stuck
can you or anyone see any scenarios where I might just regret not getting the PL8 instead of the 6? and I am only guessing but withe 8 I would not need a second charger to act as a expansion unit? sorry for dum questions I struggle a bit with the above questions...

for reasons I will not bore you with I would like to go for the best I can from day one so whichever charger/PSU combo I choose will be it.
The following are ex server PSU made up to order..and the guy as sold I think about 80+cheaper for me to buy from UK thatn US.so unless any of the opposition can offer a much better PSU option I may well go for the above.

would love a bit more info on the charger front though
Gregor thank you very much for the links one I had seen two others I had not....I see the FMA PL came out top in the Poll but that is not scientific...

best wishes Steve

Ask yourself this: am I feeling lucky, today? Would I rather use a power supply designed by an electrical engineer for the express purpose of powering a d.c. charger, or would I use a "home-brew" job "designed" by a bunch of laymen on the internet, inflating each other's opinions?
Well, are you feeling lucky?

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by spad

would I use a "home-brew" job "designed" by a bunch of laymen on the internet, inflating each other's opinions?

If by "home-brew" you a referring to server supplies, in fact these are far from it. These supplies designed to run servers 24x7 and far stricter operating specs than hobby grade equipment. Replacement costs for new servers supplies is quite a bit more than hobby grade supplies.

Although some users are nervous about operating power supplies in series, it is common practice in the industry.

http://power-topics.blogspot.com/200...in-series.html

Finally, please provide one instance where server supplies in series have turned out "unlucky" for the modeler.

[spad]

"Home brew" meaning used other than as designed.

As for "one instance," are you feeling lucky?

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by spad

"Home brew" meaning used other than as designed.

As for "one instance," are you feeling lucky?

You can find a very wide variety of 120 VAC to 12 VDC power supplies on the market from a wide variety of sources. www.mpja.com, www.jameco.com just to name two of them.

These units simply put out 12 VDC, or what ever their rated output voltage might be, and do it without much regard to what kind of load is placed on their DC output terminals.

As for me, I picked up a 24 VDC 25 Amp supply from mpja (no longer available) that has worked very well. It's been used for a variety of projects, including powering my Cellpro Powerlab 8 charger. Also before retiring, picked up a number of 24 VDC, 48 VDC and two 120 VDC supplies at work for powering our controls during testing them.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by spad

As for "one instance," are you feeling lucky?

Luck favors the prepared. I am prepared.

[1heli]

Morning Gregor
Once again many thanks for a superb reply, much obliged.

Like I said, 100 watts of discharge, larger case, up to 8s and the full 40 amps on 24v. The Powerlab6 is 50 watts of discharge and around 34-36 amps on 24v.

What does this mean in practise Gregor;IE difference between discharge 100% & 50% and the ampage difference.

Not to doubt your long term heli plans, but just about everyone helicopter pilot I know eventually increases their fleet and usually goes up in size. The Powerlab8 would give you more flexibility in case on of those models would run on 14s or 16s. But given the current high voltage ESC issues, I'm guessing it will be a while before that is main stream.

Afraid I can not se a scenario where I would go beyond the one 600 Heli..as long as the PL6 can handle it`s own size batteries (what is the max size for a 600?) then thats fine but need a bit more info on the 40amps/24v & discharge question to help me choose?

"Best you can get" varies by individual. An awesome package would be two Powerlab6s and two Meanwell RSP-1500-27 supplies. Add two MPAs and you've got a very good package from day one. I guessing once you see the prices, especially for the supplies, the server supplies will look more appealing.

yes must explain the Best I Can get statement is if I receive a payment from UK Government which is back dated 10 years!!!but that said if a good case can be made for example the EX Server \PSUs as against the Meanwells e.t.c. I would be more than willing to go with them.

The following are ex server PSU made up to order..

I'm not seeing anything. If you posted a link I'm not seeing it.

sorry about that can you not see the pics at all I did not include a web link but could do.I just inserted the link pic

Many thanks Gregor

[1heli]

from Spad?

Ask yourself this: am I feeling lucky, today? Would I rather use a power supply designed by an electrical engineer for the express purpose of powering a d.c. charger, or would I use a "home-brew" job "designed" by a bunch of laymen on the internet, inflating each other's opinions?
Well, are you feeling lucky?

I have asked the question how good are these ex server PSUs for RC applications and have received nothing but positive feedback until now...what is your personal gripe against them
I was told that the Meanwell range was not specifically made for RC either

I would genuinley like to to know whay the PSU ex-servers may not be as good as say the JUNSI 1200s

Think you are a bit unfair on the guys doing a good job (as far as I can see) making up these Home brew PSUs


all the best Steve

[stuart]

1heli,first off....good morning andnwelcome to the wattflyer!!! your questions are exactly the thing i need answerers for as i to plan on p/u the cellpro 6. i too have seen great setups in the toolboxs with the psu,charger,multi adapterboard that does 6 batteries at once. they install everything so its easy to plug in at home or a generator at the field. i'll post pictures of my layout when my charger arrives. i will be using the server method as the gang at my field use them and they work.

as far as spad goes...if you see orange...he[or she]see's black and will stand by it to the bitter end. best not bother responding to her pushing buttons as he/she has done this on other threads to get lots of responces....lol...spad is really very funny when ignored.



trolls always disagree!!!!!its what they do naturally ......................

troll: a very small creature of negative responces,often thinking more highly of themselves do to shortness of stature.always looking to interject subjects to irritate the listener to get further conversation and recognition.to troll's this is called"having a life" trolls smell bad do to their inability to keep their mouths shut when others are trying to be helpful to others. trolls hate rc flying but love rc forums and often spend all their waking moments searching them to be annoying. note:troll's are neither male or female,for if they were either they wouldn't behave like trolls.trolls are sexless.

best way to avoid trolls is to ignor them and go to an rc flying field,they hate seeing others having fun.


edit: this post was not writen to piss off any real trolls or others who may resamble trolls. nor was it intended to start any trouble with trolls.so if your a troll,please forgive me for my inappropiated use of the name. you need not respond to my post in anger..but if you do respond to the above post i will be glad to ignor whatever you have to say....cause trolls have nothing good to say.


quote from forest gump"and thats all i have to say about that"..................besides,i have a beautiful morning to go flying!!!!!!!!!!see you all around 4pm.

[spad]

Originally Posted by stuart

1heli,first off....good morning andnwelcome to the wattflyer!!! your questions are exactly the thing i need answerers for as i to plan on p/u the cellpro 6. i too have seen great setups in the toolboxs with the psu,charger,multi adapterboard that does 6 batteries at once. they install everything so its easy to plug in at home or a generator at the field. i'll post pictures of my layout when my charger arrives. i will be using the server method as the gang at my field use them and they work.

as far as spad goes...if you see orange...he[or she]see's black and will stand by it to the bitter end. best not bother responding to her pushing buttons as he/she has done this on other threads to get lots of responces....lol...spad is really very funny when ignored.



trolls always disagree!!!!!its what they do naturally ......................

troll: a very small creature of negative responces,often thinking more highly of themselves do to shortness of stature.always looking to interject subjects to irritate the listener to get further conversation and recognition.to troll's this is called"having a life" trolls smell bad do to their inability to keep their mouths shut when others are trying to be helpful to others. trolls hate rc flying but love rc forums and often spend all their waking moments searching them to be annoying. note:troll's are neither male or female,for if they were either they wouldn't behave like trolls.trolls are sexless.

best way to avoid trolls is to ignor them and go to an rc flying field,they hate seeing others having fun.


edit: this post was not writen to piss off any real trolls or others who may resamble trolls. nor was it intended to start any trouble with trolls.so if your a troll,please forgive me for my inappropiated use of the name. you need not respond to my post in anger..but if you do respond to the above post i will be glad to ignor whatever you have to say....cause trolls have nothing good to say.


quote from forest gump"and thats all i have to say about that"..................besides,i have a beautiful morning to go flying!!!!!!!!!!see you all around 4pm.

Reasonable people can disagree without resort to personal attacks: I've built two of them, and the grounding issue, post internal failure, ought to given any rational person pause.

As for "other threads," why have I been thanked 25 times?

Addendum: to the OP-go to rcg and read ALL of the threads-there is a continuing debate over grounding and potential internal failures, resulting in shock hazards! Now, regardless of where you stand on the debate, or the inherent risk, it is generally accepted that the risk exists! So, after building two, I decided I was not lucky, and bought something designed by an engineer, not a committee of lay folk. If that's "trolling," so be it!

Hm, I come here to bury Caesar, right?

[1heli]

Hi Stuart
Firstly many thanks for your reply and welcome to wattflyer,much appreciated..

as you and other members will be aware I know little about RCheli`s or any Rc come to that but I am learning fast (hopefully)

seriously though is there any major differnces in the server PSUs and the commercial offerings...

On just about every forum I have evr being on there always seem to be folk ,that rather than involve themselves in a rational debate

just love to machine gun other folk for no real reason
that`s all I will say

very best wishes Steve

[spad]

Originally Posted by 1heli

Hi Stuart
Firstly many thanks for your reply and welcome to wattflyer,much appreciated..

as you and other members will be aware I know little about RCheli`s or any Rc come to that but I am learning fast (hopefully)

seriously though is there any major differnces in the server PSUs and the commercial offerings...

On just about every forum I have evr being on there always seem to be folk ,that rather than involve themselves in a rational debate

just love to machine gun other folk for no real reason
that`s all I will say

very best wishes Steve

You invited fair comment, and you got it, based on personal experience: your personal attack is unfair.

I hope you are lucky.

[1heli]

Spad this will be my one and only reply to you
where have I attacked you please show me...

and while your at it explain don`t just make general points
WHY? are the home made PSU not as good as the commercial ones

If you offered friendly reasoned argument you would be ok

but you just seem like,you are looking for conflict

Steve

[spad]

Originally Posted by 1heli

Spad this will be my one and only reply to you
where have I attacked you please show me...

and while your at it explain don`t just make general points
WHY? are the home made PSU not as good as the commercial ones

If you offered friendly reasoned argument you would be ok

but you just seem like,you are looking for conflict

Steve

Far from "crazy," a clear personal attack-if you can't see what is manifest, so be it.

As for factual bases for my opinions: I've built two, 24 volt systems and bought various manufactured supplies-you have done neither, so I reckon your opinions are groundless at best, and irrational at worst.

[1heli]

Far from "crazy," a clear personal attack-if you can't see what is manifest, so be it.

there was NO PERSONAL attack but there might be soon.

As for factual bases for my opinions: I've built two, 24 volt systems and bought various manufactured supplies-you have done neither, so I reckon your opinions are groundless at best, and irrational at worst.

The above is fine but you said none of this in the opening message which included an attack on

Ask yourself this: am I feeling lucky, today? Would I rather use a power supply designed by an electrical engineer for the express purpose of powering a d.c. charger, or would I use a "home-brew" job "designed" by a bunch of laymen on the internet, inflating each other's opinions?
Well, are you feeling lucky?

folk who by general concensus are doing a good job!

so I reckon your opinions are groundless at best, and irrational at worst.

You need a holiday..I have only asked questions not given opinions like you..irrational hmm? look in the mirror my friend

Bye Bye

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by 1heli

from Spad?

Think you are a bit unfair on the guys doing a good job (as far as I can see) making up these Home brew PSUs

Lets clarify something on the "Home Brew" PSUs. These power supplies are designed with an input voltage of 120 VAC (or perhaps 240 VAC) and have an output voltage of 5, 12, 15, 24, 36, 48, 120 VDC, depending on the power supply model. (Before retiring, at work we had a 240 VDC power supply rated at 100 Amps. That had a three phase AC input and consisted of three ganged variacs and a three phase rectifier bridge. That was "Home brewed" by Engineers.)

Just connecting 120 VAC to the input of one of these power supplies, and connecting your LiPo charger to the power supplies 12 VDC output is not "Home Brew".

For safety, what you do have to watch for is whether the DC output voltage terminals have a ground reference. Simple to check, using a digital volt ohm meter, check for a connection between the power supply metal chassis and the DC negative lead. Should be an open circuit. check for a connection between the power supply metal chassis and the DC positive lead. Should be an open circuit. Every general purpose AC/DC power supply I've run across has a floating DC output. Your results could vary, you've got to check for this.

These power supplies generally have a very high isolation voltage rating between their 120 VAC input and their DC output voltage. If you're worried about safety on the DC output connections, you could always connect a jumper between the DC output negative terminal and chassis ground. By the way, you do need to use a three wire 120 VAC power cord for these units, NOT just a piece of two wire lamp cord.

IMHO, home brew comes into play when you connect two of these power supplies in series to get 24 Volts DC. Those grounding issues do come into play when doing this. You need to know what you are doing. And, some of those power supplies may not take kindly to putting their outputs in series for more voltage. And, don't put them in parallel for more current, unless they are specifically designed for parallel operation. If you buy a brand new power supply, its instruction sheet will tell you if it can be used in parallel with another supply, and how to connect the two together.

Or again, IMHO a home brew setup is using a computer type power supply pulled from a common computer for your chargers DC supply. These power supplies commonly have a number of DC output connections. The few I've played with had their common DC output connections grounded to the chassis.

Those high powered server power supplies are a different class of animal.

FYI, if you run across a power supply without a full metal chassis cover, DO NOT USE IT!!!!! First, these type power supplies often require a fan to keep them cool. Second, these power supplies have very high and dangerous voltages inside, far above the 120 VAC on the AC input. At work, we designed a special duty power supply that was rated for 120/240 VAC input, and a momentary 54 Volts DC at 50 Amps output. That power supply was located inside of a 38KV circuit breaker, and was totally enclosed. Peak voltage inside that power supply was about 1000 Volts when powered by 240 VAC. We had danger high voltage warning labels all over that thing.

[rcers]

OK gang - enough.

Lets get on topic please.

Mike

[1heli]

kyleservicetech Hello
Good to hear from you I do not pretend to understand most of what you explained..and I have no argument at all..I want a safe PSU to run a PL6 or 8 I would have thought the guys making them up as far as I can see anyway know whats what?or am I mistaken.

For safety, what you do have to watch for is whether the DC output voltage terminals have a ground reference. Simple to check, using a digital volt ohm meter, check for a connection between the power supply metal chassis and the DC negative lead. Should be an open circuit. check for a connection between the power supply metal chassis and the DC positive lead. Should be an open circuit. Every general purpose AC/DC power supply I've run across has a floating DC output. Your results could vary, you've got to check for this.

IMHO, home brew comes into play when you connect two of these power supplies in series to get 24 Volts DC. Those grounding issues do come into play when doing this. You need to know what you are doing. And, some of those power supplies may not take kindly to putting their outputs in series for more voltage. And, don't put them in parallel for more current, unless they are specifically designed for parallel operation.

so which guys building these/putting them together know there stuff? this is important I think

all the best Steve

[spad]

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech

Lets clarify something on the "Home Brew" PSUs. These power supplies are designed with an input voltage of 120 VAC (or perhaps 240 VAC) and have an output voltage of 5, 12, 15, 24, 36, 48, 120 VDC, depending on the power supply model. (Before retiring, at work we had a 240 VDC power supply rated at 100 Amps. That had a three phase AC input and consisted of three ganged variacs and a three phase rectifier bridge. That was "Home brewed" by Engineers.)

Just connecting 120 VAC to the input of one of these power supplies, and connecting your LiPo charger to the power supplies 12 VDC output is not "Home Brew".

For safety, what you do have to watch for is whether the DC output voltage terminals have a ground reference. Simple to check, using a digital volt ohm meter, check for a connection between the power supply metal chassis and the DC negative lead. Should be an open circuit. check for a connection between the power supply metal chassis and the DC positive lead. Should be an open circuit. Every general purpose AC/DC power supply I've run across has a floating DC output. Your results could vary, you've got to check for this.

IMHO, home brew comes into play when you connect two of these power supplies in series to get 24 Volts DC. Those grounding issues do come into play when doing this. You need to know what you are doing. And, some of those power supplies may not take kindly to putting their outputs in series for more voltage. And, don't put them in parallel for more current, unless they are specifically designed for parallel operation. If you buy a brand new power supply, its instruction sheet will tell you if it can be used in parallel with another supply, and how to connect the two together.

Or again, IMHO a home brew setup is using a computer type power supply pulled from a common computer for your chargers DC supply. These power supplies commonly have a number of DC output connections. Those high powered server power supplies are a different class of animal.


FYI, if you run across a power supply without a full metal chassis cover, DO NOT USE IT!!!!! First, these type power supplies often require a fan to keep them cool. Second, these power supplies have very high and dangerous voltages inside, far above the 120 VAC on the AC input. At work, we designed a special duty power supply that was rated for 120/240 VAC input, and a momentary 54 Volts DC at 50 Amps output. That power supply was located inside of a 38KV circuit breaker, and was totally enclosed. Peak voltage inside that power supply was about 1000 Volts when powered by 240 VAC. We had danger high voltage warning labels all over that thing.

The very risk described, but much more eloquently....

[spad]

Originally Posted by 1heli

kyleservicetech Hello
Good to hear from you I do not pretend to understand most of what you explained..and I have no argument at all..I want a safe PSU to run a PL6 or 8 I would have thought the guys making them up as far as I can see anyway know whats what?or am I mistaken.


so which guys building these/putting them together know there stuff? this is important I think

all the best Steve

How, rationally, can he answer this question unless he knows "who" is building them?

He has described the "safest" circuit design for you, but be aware that an inherent risk remains, that is "greater" than a purpose-designed unit. If that risk is acceptable to you, buy it; otherwise, there are plenty of purpose-designed, smaller output units that are very inexpensive and probably meet your initial needs.

Remember, THE POWER SUPPLY CAN BE "SMALLER" (lower output) than the full output of the PL-6 or 8 and still meet your needs!

[1heli]

Look you arse hole first class

I am a complete novice..so I have to ask a lot of questions not always the right ones..because I am learning.

so when I ask a quite reasonable question as to who out there are making up safe PSUs maybe he does not have an answer that is fine...but maybe there are some out there who do have an answer but you just seem to want to run me down and stick your nose in where it`s not wanted.....

Let kyleservicetech answer for himself and I apologise in advance if my question was in anyway irrational

from Spad
The very risk described, but much more eloquently....

you got that right at least

[spad]

Originally Posted by 1heli

Look you arse hole first class

I am a complete novice..so I have to ask a lot of questions not always the right ones..because I am learning.

so when I ask a quite reasonable question as to who out there are making up safe PSUs maybe he does not have an answer that is fine...but maybe there are some out there who do have an answer but you just seem to want to run me down and stick your nose in where it`s not wanted.....

Let kyleservicetech answer for himself and I apologise in advance if my question was in anyway irrational
you got that right at least

Hm....

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by 1heli

Look you arse hole first class

I am a complete novice..so I have to ask a lot of questions not always the right ones..because I am learning.

so when I ask a quite reasonable question as to who out there are making up safe PSUs maybe he does not have an answer that is fine...but maybe there are some out there who do have an answer but you just seem to want to run me down and stick your nose in where it`s not wanted.....

Let kyleservicetech answer for himself and I apologise in advance if my question was in anyway irrational
you got that right at least

Nope, IMHO the only dumb question is the one you ask AFTER burning something up.

If you want brand a brand new power supply, this is the 24 VDC 25 Amp unit I've got. Not cheap at $120, but it's got a two year warranty. Simple to use, just connect a three wire AC Plug to its input screw terminals, connect its DC output screw terminals to your LiPo charger. That's it. It's internally electronically protected against overloads. As for safety, it's got a 3000 volt isolation volt rating between its input and output terminals. Its also available as 12 VDC 50 Amp, 48 VDC 12.5 Amp and a few other output voltages. (If my lousy memory is correct, this 24V 25A supply can be wired up for parallel 24 VDC 50 Amp operation. Always had enough power with my one 24V 25A power supply that runs my Cellpro Powerlab 8)

Those screw connectors are exposed, so if you've got any little ones running around, they need to be covered with a piece of plastic, or what ever.

Take a look:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/sto...ageDisplayView

[spad]

When I don't need gobs of power, I use one of these with my PL-8 with great results:

http://www.progressiverc.com/p350-power-supply.html

[1heli]

Hello everyone
Firstly must apologise to the owner and the moderators of this fine site..and especially to fellow members,no excuse for my outburst no matter how agitated I was getting..it is the thing I hate most about Forums..and I fell in to the trap.

sorry

Steve