Good PSU Match For The Power Lab 6?

[kyleservicetech]

Originally Posted by 1heli

Hello everyone
Firstly must apologise to the owner and the moderators of this fine site..and especially to fellow members,no excuse for my outburst no matter how agitated I was getting..it is the thing I hate most about Forums..and I fell in to the trap.

sorry

Steve

Naw, for the most part, this website is one of the best ones out there for electric power. Personal attacks are far and few between, and the moderators quickly put a stop to those that do show up. (The moderators can and do permanently ban the real troublemakers.)

[1heli]

kyleservicetech

Many thanks for your reply,that was very nice of you and sorry for my outburst...I may ask some really dum questions but it`s the only way to learn sometimes.
I will certainly check out the link you gave me..the guy in the UK making up these Server PSUs as sold many of them and his feedback is top class...but of course I would be very careful and take advice on anything that could be potentially dangerouse.

all the best
please keep the good suggestions rolling

Steve

[spad]

I offered you sincere, good-faith, fact-based advice: how you weigh it, or react is up to you.

[1heli]

kyleservicetech

I have just checked out the link and meanwell certainly have a good reputation,as there name pops up on a regular basis...

so if I may just ask if I go for the PL6? unless anyone can see a good enough reason to go to the PL8...the SE-600-24 will cover all the bases and give me all the safety I require?

Those screw connectors are exposed, so if you've got any little ones running around, they need to be covered with a piece of plastic, or what ever.

would this be where to use electrical shrink wrap? forgot it`s name.

I am afraid I am taking time to get my head around electronics and that`s after reading a lot of stuff and replies e.t.c. so sorry again.

all the best Steve

[1heli]

http://feathermerchantrc.com/

I suspect that members here will be more than familiar with the above link but I thought I would list it anyway

all the best Steve

[spad]

The PL-8 has greater discharge capacity, which helps with storage charge balancing.

[1heli]

A question not a comment on anything or anyone

The PL-8 has greater discharge capacity, which helps with storage charge balancing

how important is storage charge balancing?
Steve

[spad]

Storage charge balancing, a generally accepted principle, is "said" to lead to longer battery life, meaning, among other things, more cycles of greater capacity.

It is generally accepted that storage at or near full charge diminishes the C rating over time, and the capacity/cycle life.

The PL-6 has an outstanding circuit, but can't do this as quickly.

Since you are paying in a very valuable currency, in my opinion (and, it is just that), you should buy the PL-8 since it is "cheaper" to you, than to us.

[1heli]

I thank you very much for the very good reply
the PL8 (does to me seem like a fantastic bit of engineering)if everything I read is true.

Storage charge balancing, a generally accepted principle, is "said" to lead to longer battery life, meaning, among other things, more cycles of greater capacity.

It is generally accepted that storage at or near full charge diminishes the C rating over time, and the capacity/cycle life.

Yep I understand this finally! so it is paying me in the long run to go with the 100% discharge rating,PL8 am I correct?

OK lets take it as read that I am going baring very good reasons not to for the PL8

PSU Choice~Meanwell-SE-600-24 kindly suggested by kyleservicetech or the JUNSI 1200s or similar
Which is the better bet? just trying very hard to strike a really good balance..I will spend what ever is required to get the best combo.

best wishes Steve

[spad]

"Best" is based on a sliding scale of your needs: best, for me, is a pair of PL-8's powered by a Junsi 1200S. By using MPA boards on each, I can concurrently charge 6 3s batteries of varying capacity on one "side," and 6 2s batteries of varying capacity on the other, until, within about 30 minutes (if your time means anything), I have enough to fly all day.

Now, storage charge means reversing all this, so, if again, your time is worth anything, the quicker, the better.

[Turner]

Having cells balanced at storage voltages will do absolutely nothing for your cells or for you. Saying it makes a difference is like trying to say that storing at 3.85 volts will make a single cell battery last longer (or shorter) than one stored at 3.9 volts. The only time balance really matters is at full charge and during use.

[spad]

Originally Posted by Turner

Having cells balanced at storage voltages will do absolutely nothing for your cells or for you. Saying it makes a difference is like trying to say that storing at 3.85 volts will make a single cell battery last longer (or shorter) than one stored at 3.9 volts. The only time balance really matters is at full charge and during use.

Yes, you are right, and if I muddied this point, the fault is mine: as Turner says, balanced cells are only relevant at those two times. The cells need not be balanced during or at a storage charge, but having a charger that does it so well is helpful when at the next time you do fully charge the battery (the process goes faster).

The more accurate statement is "storage charges," without or without balancing, lead to....

Thanks for clearing it up, Turner.

[1heli]

Ok if I only have the one PL8+MPA in theory how many sets of lipos for 600 heli could I charge to keep me flying a few hours at most?
I sort of understand that you can..join chargers together but think I will avoid that if I can

many thanks Steve

[spad]

I'll punt on that one: I don't know the battery capacity you are using.

But, I'll speculate that if you charge 6 at a time, likely about 20 minutes a "set," 12 will last longer than you! So, in 45 minutes or less, you are ready for "the day."

[1heli]

I'll punt on that one: I don't know the battery capacity you are using.

Neither do I?all this is pre heli research and question asking..but I think it will be lipo 6s?

so I require 12 x lipos is this correct so the heli takes 6 X 6cell lipo or have I mixed this up,think I have .
sorry if that is the case

all the best Steve

[spad]

If the model uses a 6s battery, do you know its mah (milliamp) capacity?

For example, I use lots of 3s (3 cell) 2,200 mah batteries, which, at a 3 C charge, fill up in 20 minutes or so.

So, if an average helicopter flight is 5 minutes or so, and you want to fly a total of 60 minutes (likely about 2 or so hours of flying and recovering!), then you'll use 12, 6s batteries or so during that time-now, if you are lucky and can charge at the field, you can probably get by with 3 batteries (2 are always charging).

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by 1heli

What does this mean in practise Gregor;IE difference between discharge 100% & 50% and the ampage difference.

For discharge 100 vs 50 watts is double the current. On a 6s pack that's about 4 amps of discharge vs 2 amps. Twice as long to bring pack down to storage voltage.

For output PL6 vs PL8, for 6s packs the charge will take a few minutes longer. if you get a Meanwell 27v supply, output is near identical between the two.

Afraid I can not se a scenario where I would go beyond the one 600 Heli..as long as the PL6 can handle it`s own size batteries (what is the max size for a 600?)

It varies, but the largest cell count I've seen on a 600 is 12s. Some would say that voltage is actually higher than needed. Many Logos run on 10s and my Knight 600e can as an 8s machine. So the Powerlab6 covers the 600 class very well. Except discharge that takes twice as long and a slight reduction in output using 24v.

Regarding the converted server supplies, safety issues and shock. Initially, the method that many used was to disconnect the ground wire on the AC side. If there was an internal short inside the case, the case could become "live" and present a shock. If the AC ground were still connected, this would trip the breaker.

Since that time, methods to disconnect the ground on the DC side have become more widely known and its now the preferred method to wire supplies in series. Now, if there is an internal short in the supply, either supply, and the case becomes live, this will trip a breaker. From a shock perspective, using the DC ground isolation method, makes two server supplies as just as risky as a single supply. There is no luck required, only know how.

The Junsi supply is a nice unit. Finish and features are cool. No doubt about it. But you have to remember that its hobby grade equipment. The used server supplies were built for servers to run 24x7 with very real consequences if they fail. While I have no proof of it, I suspect that the design and quality of the components used in the server supplies is a cut above the hobby grade supplies.

Finally, I do not interface with my power supply, only to turn it on. I use the charger to monitor the power supply voltage and current output. I use a Kill-A-Watt to monitor its AC consumption. I don't ever need to adjust, tweak it, tune it or for that matter, even see it. My charger is the central hub of all things related to charging. Most users end up locating their power supplies in a case where they cannot even see them. This is for good reason, there simply is no need. For this reason, its hard to justify the added expense of "feature rich" supplies. I know my usage patterns and I know that I would not get value of out that extra expense.

[1heli]

Hi Spad

The brand-new Mikado LOGO 600 SE is derived from the current LOGO 600 with a few extra benefits. Pilots looking to fly with larger rotor blades may do so now with the LOGO 600 SE (up to 690 mm), thanks to the addition of a 6 cm longer tailboom. With a 10S lipo battery (4500 mAh), flight times of 10 to 15 minutes are easily possible, due to the larger rotor disc and the machine's very light weight. Novices and advanced 3D pilots alike will find that the leight weight combined with the use of the VBar makes for outstanding flight performance unmatched within the industry.

I had not noticed some of the imformation in this taken from Mikado site does change things a little I think
is that the maximum battery this Heli will take? not sure how it works out..so if I read correctly it is just 1 x i 10s lipo

so how many would I require ..ie how many do you guys use..

all the best Steve

cheers Steve

[spad]

The used server supplies were built for servers to run 24x7 with very real consequences if they fail. While I have no proof of it, I suspect that the design and quality of the components used in the server supplies is a cut above the hobby grade supplies.

CERTAINLY TRUE IN THE CONTEXT FOR WHICH "THEY" WERE DESIGNED, but I "suspect" the manufacturers of these units would take the obvious position, on an injury or death, that they were NOT designed for modification or the purposes many modify them for, and thus an "abuse" of their product. By that reasoning, a military jet can safely be flown by the average private pilot (don't get into this one with me, I have a commercial license with many type ratings and about 10,000 hours, many of which are in IMC).

I know my usage patterns and I know that I would not get value of out that extra expense.

THE VALUE YOU GET is purely subjective, as it is for me, and though I still have two of these converted power supplies, feel greater "intangible" value from knowing my risk is de minimis. (I live in a small home and am "forced" to handle the power supply during charging and discharging since I have no dedicated space.)

[1heli]

Gregor Hi again
many thanks for your most helpful reply ..much obliged..as you may have seen above I had not read the LOGO specs correctly which may change one or two things they state 1 x 10 Lipo

The PL8 seems a very good option for the reasons given by your goodself and others...so can I ask how many 10 lipos can I charge with PL8 at once..enough to see me through a good day of flying if I am correct?

You have no doubt read the comments and suggestions re server PSUs, I have contacted the guy in UK who as built and sold a lot of server PSU Rickyc83 and showed him the comments and he as told me that his PSUs are fine on the grounding front e.t.c.

suppose there will never be consesus on this issue

all the best Steve

[spad]

I would not expect Rickyc83 to have any other answer!

I wonder if his underwriters know what he is up to? (Just a joke, please.)

[1heli]

My head is whirling a bit...
but as I have just said somewhere there may never be a consensus on this question.Rickyc83 as built I think 80 to oreder and not one report of anything wrong..ie no shocks or shorts...but will not get to engaged in this any further I have time to choose..

and of course receive more feedback

best wishes Steve

[Turner]

Originally Posted by spad

I would not expect Rickyc83 to have any other answer!

I wonder if his underwriters know what he is up to? (Just a joke, please.)

Let it go man.

You're right of course and everyone currently reconfiguring power supplies and the many thousands using them are all wrong of course.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by 1heli

The PL8 seems a very good option for the reasons given by your goodself and others...so can I ask how many 10 lipos can I charge with PL8 at once..enough to see me through a good day of flying if I am correct?

One thing that may need a little clarification. Specifically which 10s packs will you be running. If they are two 5s packs wired in series and can be separated, that's fine. If they are 10s pack which cannot be separated into two 5s packs, then you'll need a 10s charger. The Powerlab8, as much as I like it, is not a 10s charger.

Assuming you can break the 10s pack into two 5s, packs that also means the Powerlab6 can be maxxed out at 40 amps. Using a pack size of 4500, here are some charge rates (both Powerlab6 and 8)

Two packs (one flight pack) 4.4c charge rate (or about 15 to 18 minutes)
Four packs, (two flight packs) 2.2c charge rate (or about 22-24 minutes)
Six packs, (three flight packs) 1.5c charge rate (or about 43-47 minutes)

[spad]

Originally Posted by Turner

Let it go man.

You're right of course and everyone currently reconfiguring power supplies and the many thousands using them are all wrong of course.

This is not metaphysics, and there are no "rights" and "wrongs," that's the whole point! Some of us choose the safest course and pay extra for it; others choose another course.

Sum: there is nothing to "let go." If a guy makes an informed decision, based on whatever risk he is willing to accept, so be it. Maybe you missed the part where I said I have made and still have two, 24 volt supplies made from the very server power supply being discussed-and, I did modify them further by substituting quieter fans. It's really all about choice, and the fantastic market available to us! (So, having both a Junsi 1200 and 2 of my own 24 volt supplies, I guess I'm both right and wrong, eh? )