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Old 07-19-2012, 03:10 AM   #1
dennis h. pateras
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Default mini f-16 or mini f-18 first edf?

I've seen both and am wondering if one is better or easier than the other as a first edf or the same to fly.Thanks for any info
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:54 AM   #2
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This is your first post, so are you considering this for your first plane?
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:37 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by dennis h. pateras View Post
I've seen both and am wondering if one is better or easier than the other as a first edf or the same to fly.Thanks for any info
Can you fly an RC plane already ? If not - forget both as you will never keep up with them. They are agile and not for beginners. especially if you haven't flown RC before.

Go to youtube channel : solentlifeuk ..... you will see the slower T45 flying - she's agile and quick ........ that's a beaut to fly but not for a first plane.

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Old 07-19-2012, 01:51 PM   #4
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Dennis, I could not agree more with Nigel and Mx5.

If it's not your very first plane and you want explore the edf world, the Jpowers/Skyangel series is an excellent choice. Good performance at a very good price. Pretty rugged too. Don't ask me how I know this.

I have the T-45(Red Arrows) and F-16 and both are great flyers. Alot of fun in a smalll package. Come on over to the 50 mm thread that Nigel started here on Wattflyers and you'll learn alot about them,especially, the T-45. RCG has a few threads as well: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...348808&page=71 You'll see reports and reviews on all of them. I could not think of a better way to try edf's. These are not intimidatiing at all and I only consider myself an advanced beginner to intermediate pilot at best. But I don't think they would be boring for an advanced pilot either.

I started with the T-45 and she's great. Might be the best in the entire series. The F-16 is faster, no question.

Toysonics and BH sell them in the US. Hobbyb in Canada. HK sells them globally as well.

If this is your first plane-period, then forget it. You can try it but bring a broom and bag to the field with you- LOL

Good luck,

Hawk

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:37 PM   #5
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Thanks guys. Actually , I was looking down the road too early but, the jets get me excited (watching them on youtube). Guess I'm trying to run before I can walk, in my mind anyway. Bad habit. I wasn't going to do it right away. My actual plan it to buy a Hobbyzone champ. Once I get a lot of time with it, I would probably want a low wing warbird or other type , but a trainer. Then , hopefully, someday a jet. I have to say , the old WWII prop jobs are unique. I'll check out the skyangel and T-45 on youtube just to see. I look only, lol! Thanks again.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #6
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Good call. You'll have fun with the Champ.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:55 AM   #7
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Dennis,Good plan. I'd get the HZ Super Cub as a first plane, it bigger. Lots of mods you can do to it down the road. They have a 2.4 version now. The 27Mhz is garbage.

Checklist based on affordability:
1). Get AMA card A must- http://www.modelaircraft.org/
2). Join a club if possible- Most have trainers one or two nights per week. Members will help you. Nothing better than a buddy box. Helped me enormously.
3). Get a Sim- Can find used on Ebay. I like Real Flight. Not a must but a nice to have. Can practice especially on rainy or windy days.
4). Get a decent battery charger. The 1-2 amp cell phone types that come with the RTF's are junk. I'd get the best one you can afford. I have the ICharger 206B w/350 watt power supply. I say this because after the addiction sets in you're going to want one. A nice to have.
5). A decent 2.4 Radio. Most of the ones that come with the RTF's are throw aways. You don't have to spend a fortune on one but get one you can grow with. Frankly, it's a touchy subject on these threads. Guys get very emotional about their TX's. There a Futaba guys like me and then there are Spektrum, JR, Airtronics, HiTec, Turnigy, Flysky you name it. Ask which one is the best and you'll have opened up a can of worms. Just get one you like.

I returned to the hobby a little over a year ago after a very long absence. There was and still is, a lot to learn. Something always pop up that I jhaven;t seen before. Many here can help as there's a plethera of expertise on Wattflyers. I seriously doubt any of your questions will ever go unanswered and there are no dumb questions so you don't have to worry. Occassionally, you'll get your ass chewed by Chellie but that's okay. LOL Kidding- She's brilliant.

I recommend reading AERJR's "Electric Flying blog" here. It's a manifesto that covers just about everything you'll ever need to know about electric rc flight. Removes a lot of the mystery on how all this stuff works.

You'll progress rapidly and want more soon if you're like most of the other addicts here.

I have a sign that says: I'll work for an ARF" - LOL Seriously, it doesn't have to be a money pit but you do get nickled and dimed with the trips you'll keep making to the LHS for little odds and ends like horns, rods, clevices, connectors, etc.

You'll soon find out the best online stores. Of course, the 800lb Gorilla in the room is Hobby King. But there are also others like HeadsupRc, Grayson, Value Hobby, etc. that provide great service.

My second plane was a PZ T-28, another very easy flyer. Then started making my own dollar tree pusher (prop in the slot) parkjets as I got hooked up with some guys on Sundays flying combat with F-22's. Cheap fun. I enjoyed building and seeing what I built actually get airborne. Made some others from depron like the Convair Sea Dart. Loads of fun and they will make you a better pilot in a hurry. After you can consistently take off , fly the pattern and safely land and get a little taste of speed, you'll be ready to try the edf's.

Nigel was a big help mentoring me on the these fun little birds. Got started earlier this year with the T-45 JPowers/ Skyangels 50mm. It's a great entry level edf. Not overly intimidating and relatively easy to fly. Not a speed demon like a Habu or even the HK Parkjet or Radjet pushers.

You'll be flying these before you can say: " Hey, I never saw that tree !"

Best of luck on getting started. You're in for some fun !

Cheers,

Hawk

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Old 07-20-2012, 01:29 AM   #8
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Mx and Dahawk, thanks so much for these valuable tips and links. You already given me a little education on what to look for.Take car. Happy flights!
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:16 AM   #9
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dahawk,

Wow! I need to takes some notes on your post myself. I just gave an opinion, you gave a lot of good info.

Dennis, I will give one more opinion. While I think we all need to start out a little slower than we want to, that doesn't mean don't "reach" a little. Case in point, I think it was on my third or forth weekend of flying that I soloed. Quite by accident actually. I had taken off some and landed some by then, but never in the same flight. So, I took off, flew around for a while, and without thinking about it, asked my instructor if I should bring it in. He said "Sure." Once I landed, he congratulated me on my solo. Duh!

The next weekend, the winds were blowing at 6 or 7 mph gusting up to as high as 12 (measured on a Cabela's wind gauge). That's not that bad, but to a newbie like me, it looked like a gale. Many of the pilots at our field decided not to fly. But one of them said, “If you don't fly in it, you'll never learn.” And he was absolutely right. Maybe I should have waited. But seeing others that had been flying for years decide not to take one up made me say to myself “I guess they never learned.” So, I flew. And it was a little tough at first. But I had a blast! And now, a little wind doesn't bother me.

Now for you, I don't think you want to fly the Champ in much wind at all. I have an Apprentice, which is a much bigger, very stable plane. But the point is, sometimes you might need to “stretch”.

Have a great time with the Champ!
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:40 AM   #10
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Great story MX, and good philosophy. I wonder how many guys in this forum have flown real planes like yourself.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:13 AM   #11
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I have a Cessna 182 that I fly for getting the feel again after a week or so away ... I can fly that in winds that it actually goes backwards if I ease back on throttle ...
As other guy says - you have to DO IT ...

How many models before the EDF ? There is NO real answer to that ... there's been guys who practice practice practice on sims and go out and fly intermediate models and survive. There's others who need the real slow careful learning curve.

I would suggest get a Sim ......... RCPLanemaster as I have may not be the finest graphics - but it comes with USB Tx and various planes along with free download of extras .. about $30. It will also interface with any Tx you get as long as there's a trainer socket.
Fly Fly Fly that sim ... fly it till you are sick of it !! Then once you are flying your model - go back to the sim to practice all those areas you are weak in.

When you do fly ... please please please do not fly circles. Please fly figure 8's IN FRONT OF YOU UPWIND. That way you learn both turns and directions and don't get into a habit that many have of being more comfortable in one direction than other.
To really get on ... even with the trainer ... once you are reasonable at flying .. reduce the size of box you fly in. Keep reducing it till you are literally flying a 50yd high, 50yd wide box. I'm sure there's some experienced good flyers asking why ? Good reason ... it makes you work at keeping it under YOUR control and not reacting to what IT wants to do.

If you can fly the Champ close in, throw it around and still go home with it in one piece ....... then time to look at another and maybe just maybe the T45 50mm mini EDF set up with a 1000mAh 3S pack will be ok ... but be prepared and make sure another launches for you - you ready on both sticks !! Keep all turns / flight smooth with no violent yanks on sticks .. this is an EDF not a prop job.

Good luck ....

Nigel

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Old 07-20-2012, 12:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dennis h. pateras View Post
Great story MX, and good philosophy. I wonder how many guys in this forum have flown real planes like yourself.
Sorry if I gave the impression that this story was about real flight. This was RC flying. I have done some real flying, but never made it to a solo.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:18 PM   #13
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You MX, as I hit the "submit" box, something kept telling me you were talking about soleing an RC plane,not a real one. but the sliver of doubt set in, lol!
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:46 PM   #14
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I recently bought a phase 3 ef16 cause it was cheap. The maiden really surprised me. It is easier to fly than most high wing trainers and really looks the part if you are interested in jets. To prove the point I decided to buddy box a complete novice with it. This novice was flying an easystar rudder elevator model reasonably well. He flew the f16 easily and loved every minute of it.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:11 PM   #15
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The Phase 3 64mm F-16 is a great plane !

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Old 08-04-2012, 03:56 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by squidger View Post
I recently bought a phase 3 ef16 cause it was cheap. The maiden really surprised me. It is easier to fly than most high wing trainers and really looks the part if you are interested in jets. To prove the point I decided to buddy box a complete novice with it. This novice was flying an easystar rudder elevator model reasonably well. He flew the f16 easily and loved every minute of it.

Thanks squidger, I'll check kit out at some point.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:12 PM   #17
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Dennis,

Get ready. It will be months, not years. The addiction sets in quickly and grows from there. You'll be flying edf's before you can say: " I never saw that tree! "

In the end, there are some tame ones out there like the Phase 3 F-16 and the 50mm Skyangels series,namely, the T-45.

-Hawk

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dennis h. pateras View Post
Thanks squidger, I'll check kit out at some point.
If you do get one you need to know that when setting it up you need to make the front of the elevons a little lower than the instructions say (reflex) for it to fly straight and true.
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:17 PM   #19
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Default Bought the Champ/maiden flight

Well,
Bought the Champ, maiden flight, first time rc electric try. Have to say, guys on youtube make it look easy. Got it to fly but crashed more. I did actually do a loop ( probably by accident , lol!) I did all this on grass out of fear, lol! Well the last crash cracked the front housing where the motor is pretty good. motor partially hanging out. Guy at the hobby shop said to tape it up and he would order some foam safe glue.He said I was one up completing a loop,lol. He said I wasn't alone crashing it first time. I taped it went back down, flew a little , slight crash, but the wind had picked up a little and battery was almost out, so that was my cue to fly tomorrow. Even though I've seen people repair them, I was discouraged when I damaged the front housing, also the crack went back to just under the cockpit, but figured people have done that before, or worse so, I'll keep trying. I can see why a trainer is the way to go. I'll get it eventually.
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #20
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Warm up the foam with a hair-dryer - taking care not to overheat ....... carefully bend back to shape while warming ... jig it and let cool.

5 minute Epoxy to glue it - use sparingly ...

Good as new.

We ALL go through it ... no matter what the expert says !! We ALL go through it AFTER learning as well !!
The art of model flying is not only to fly the model - but to keep it flying ie repairs !!

Nigel

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Old 08-17-2012, 06:41 PM   #21
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+1 on Nigels advice. Hang in there ! One of the first things I learned is that it's not a beauty contest. Most of my squadron has had more face lifts than Joan Rivers ! They all get banged-up somehow. A little battle damage add to the Patina- LOL

You'll be onto your next plane before you can say: " I never saw that tree !"

We've all been there !

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Old 08-19-2012, 05:34 PM   #22
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Default champ 2nd flight

Hand launched, full throttle, as soon as it left my hands.backed off to about half throttle. Flew for a few seconds, crashed. Next attempt, it flew up and stayed a little stationary( wind was only 2-3 MPH). Didn't get high up on any of these takeoffs.Got it to turn though. I did remember to kill the throttle when it was going to crash.The final crash I broke the rubber off, so it's wait for the glue to come in and fix it. I noticed from a previous crash one end of the prop was twisted. Also, it seems that down elevator travels further than up elevator,( didn't touch the factory setting) could this be a problem or is it designed that way? Getting a little frustrating but won't give up. Guess it's like watching golf on TV and then going out and trying it. Thye make it look easy, lol!Thanks for any advice.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:42 PM   #23
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Keep at it. You'll triumph in the end. Trick is to launch on full throttle into wind and gain height fairly quickly staying into wind. Then throttle back to half throttle and trim her up, still into wind. She will do funny things downwind and crosswind. When she flies hands off straight and level on about half throttle you can start flying her properly and always have throttle left in reserve to get out of trouble. Plenty of height means a couple of mistakes can be made and recovered from. If you can't trim her out yourself get someone else to do it for you. Trying to fly a badly trimmed model is hard for an accomplished pilot and damn near impossible for a newbie. Happy flying.

Get yourself a hot glue gun. Will mend most things but remember to wet your finger before smoothing glue out cause it'll hurt otherwise lol.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:09 PM   #24
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Launched on full then cut back throttle ?

Personally I am a launch on full throttle ... climb to safe height - THEN think about cutting back throttle.

If it's a well powered model - then launch on REDUCED throttle ... especially if it's a slow flyer and has a glide potential. Too much power on a slow flyer or limited wing span or large prop model can in fact cause a crash ... it's finding the happy medium ...

It's funny but the human has a sense of when enough power ... you may not be able to put numbers to it ... but you open throttle .. you feel the model want to pull out of your hand ... you seem to instinctively know when it's enough or not.

Nigel

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