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Old 07-30-2012, 07:46 AM   #1
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Default Upgrading Motor in Latest Parkzone Spitfire

If I have pt this thread in the wrong slot, just let me know. New here.

I have been flying the Parkzone Spitfire for about 6 months now; flys just fine but is lacking in power/performance. Has anyone installed a better motor in this warbird??
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #2
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I've got the this plane and most of the PZ warbirds but sorry to say i haven't changed the motor just yet,no doubt i will but to many other projects to sort out first.

The motor i put in my PZ F4U Corsair was the Turnigy easy match G10 which gives tat loads more power and it was a straight swap with no mods to anything,just remember when you upgrade motors you might have to add a bit more strength in the wings,i also used a Turnigy 3536 motor in my old PZ Spitfire and that thing really does get up and go,some times a bit to fast to be honest.

If i remember correctly some people are using the Turnigy G10 and G15 which work out the same sort of motor to the power 10 and 15,but you will have to check out what on the links i'll post.

If you can't find out to much info on this forum i'll leave a link to the motors i used and i'll leave a link to a big thread on this plane over on rcgroups,there are a few boys over there that have changed the motor out,if you don't want to read it all just asked and they will be only to happy to let you known what motors they used.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1463636

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...EasyMatch.html
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:46 PM   #3
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Thanks for input; I am also asking around in RCGROUP. I guess before I choose I should measure the dimensions of the stock motor. With the long collet length, motor length will be an issue. I am not looking for the Spit to fly as fast as my Strykers; just want to bunp it up a couple of notches. Lots of foam Mustangs flyin aroun here, and they are all, so far, considerably quicker. By the way, I am located in British Columbia Canada. Haven't has a chance to set up a profile yet.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:56 PM   #4
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The question you are asking is highly subjective and CAN get you a LOT of different answers and suggestions.

Are you after pure speed? Going with a smaller prop? Going with a higher pitch prop? Larger ESC? UBEC? Larger capacity batteries? Higher "C" rated batteries?

Are the "foam Mustangs" using retractable landing gear or fixed or are they not using any gear and being hand launched and belly landed. In other words are they "faster" than your Spitfire NOT because they have a larger motor but because they are LIGHTER AND SMALLER.

Want more speed? Take away the retracts totally. Cover the wheel wells with packing tape. Change the prop to the PZ extra 300 prop (it's a 10.5 X 9) and hand launch/belly land.

Generally speaking the "larger" motors are also lower kv motors and thus need to swing larger props to get the same speed as a higher kv motor swinging a smaller diameter prop. People choose the larger motors for that purpose so that they can swing a large 4 blade prop - more in line with 'SCALE" looks and not necessarily for performance. Some use the 2 blade props and bigger motor BUT add a cell to their battery - 4 cell. This adds the extra rpm to the smaller prop - but it is also adding weight.

As I said in the beginning of this long winded post - it is a VERY subjective question and the answer is really only known to you as only you know what you want from the plane in performance and looks.

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:40 PM   #5
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ALSO to be noted is the fact that the Parkzone motor mount is pretty SPECIFIC to the PZ motors. You CAN adapt other motors to it - IF - if they are the same bolt pattern for at LEAST 2 of the motor bolt holes and IF the motor, case and shaft are the same as the stock motor.

IF there are any variances to the stock motor with your choice of replacement motor - you had better be well versed in adaption and "making" things work.

Also of note is that a change of motor and/or a change of the prop usually necessitates a change of the ESC for something more comparable to your new needs. Say 20% to 30% ABOVE the average draw of amperage from the new system tested via a wattmeter. Reading the forum threads will produce posts from users that have already been down the road and have already tested the motor and setup.

Not everyone will have the exact same experience with the same motor and prop and esc's. But you will get an idea CLOSE to your needs.

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Old 07-30-2012, 10:07 PM   #6
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Yep Hillbille is right about the prop as i've got the PZ extra prop on my New PZ Spitfire and my PZ P-47 thunderbolt,which is as he said is a 10.5 x 9 and that will give you the little more speed enough that you will notice.

PLus you could always just go the battery route and i use the blue Turnigy 3s 2200mah 40/50C or/and the Nano-Tech 3s 2200mah 25/50C batteries,as these will boost your speed a little and again so that you Will notice,as i have have these batteries and they perform all lot better than the standard PZ batteries and the C rating is higher.

AS i said in my earlier post the Turnigy easy match 10G motor was a straight swap out for the PZ one in my F4U Corsair but i can't say for sure about the PZ Spitfire one,also there are loads of motor mounts sold on ebay that are made to fit the PZ range of warbirds to suit the Hobbyking brand of motors,i know because i've used one for my older Spitfire (the first one PZ brought out) i've got a video showing that build,so i'll upload it just in case your interested,if not someone else might enjoy it.

You will be able to see the Turnigy 3536 motor that i used as well as the motor mount,but as you said you didn't want to go that fast i'd say go for the Turnigy 10G,if not try the battery or prop option as both of them are good on there own and together.

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:18 AM   #7
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I am just looking for an all round increase in performance. I could go to an e-flite power 25 (or cheaper equivilant), a 60 amp esc (already have one as a spare for my Stryker), and I might be able to use my existing 2600ma 3 cell 65C batteries, or an existing 4 cell if it will slide on in. It is not an all out need for speed, as I have my stryker for that, and I have small 3D foamies for slow performance. I am a wide-spectrum kind of flyer. I really have the most fun right now with my Mini Ultra Stick that I have just converted over to quad-flaps. Definately a learning curve going on here!!!
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:25 PM   #8
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Like a said above if you just want to go a little faster go the battery and prop route,you will be surprised how much difference a higher C battery and a 10.5x9 prop will make.

This hobby is one big learning curve mate and i learn something new most weeks from forums and i've been at it for a 5 years now,it all adds to the fun.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:03 PM   #9
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Thanks again for input; I have the higher C (65) battery,. Will try to pick up a prop today. Props are fun; I have a collection for the Stryker as I have tried several combinations.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:49 PM   #10
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No worries mate and if you don't already do it you might want to balance your props,you get a better performing plane when the prop is properly balanced.

If you need any help on that just do a search on Youtube for balancing props,there are some good videos on there and bad ones but you should be able to work out whats what.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
Thanks again for input; I have the higher C (65) battery,. Will try to pick up a prop today. Props are fun; I have a collection for the Stryker as I have tried several combinations.
Just make sure to use a wattmeter if you are swapping props and especially if you were thinking of going to a 4s battery. It's very easy to aver amp the motor and/or ESC.

Also be mindful of added weight, while a very powerful but overweight model may well fly fast it wont be much use for anything else.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:12 AM   #12
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Default PZ Motor Upgrade

Ok; been away for a bit; I picked up an E-flite Power 15 which mounted perfectly into the PZ Spitfire. Changed out the 30 amp esc to a 40 amp esc.

Now I am up against it. PROPELLORS.

The stock PZ prop 9.5X7.5 only uses 16.4 amps/152.8 watts.

I tried a spare 11X7 and this prop only uses17.6 amps/162.7 watts

The power 15 is good for up to 42 amps max burst and 425 watts.

With these two props the esc pulses and is not happy.

I was using a 2600ma 3 cell 25c.
And i have a 2250 4 cell i might try out.

I can only have the prop so long due to ground clearance.

Looking for any ideas on props to try, even a three bladed prop.

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Old 12-13-2012, 05:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
Ok; been away for a bit; I picked up an E-flite Power 15 which mounted perfectly into the PZ Spitfire. Changed out the 30 amp esc to a 40 amp esc.

Now I am up against it. PROPELLORS.

The stock PZ prop 9.5X7.5 only uses 16.4 amps/152.8 watts.

I tried a spare 11X7 and this prop only uses17.6 amps/162.7 watts

The power 15 is good for up to 42 amps max burst and 425 watts.

With these two props the esc pulses and is not happy.

I was using a 2600ma 3 cell 25c.
And i have a 2250 4 cell i might try out.

I can only have the prop so long due to ground clearance.

Looking for any ideas on props to try, even a three bladed prop.

Check out www.motocalc.com for a computer program that might help. It's free for 30 days, then $39. You should be able to get enough out of the program in 30 days before spending $$$$. The E-flite Power 15 outrunner is listed in motocalc, with 950KV, 2A no load, 0.03 ohms winding resistance, and 5.4 ounces.

If your ESC pulses, it might be that your battery is not capable of putting out the required current. That is causing the battery voltage to drop below safe limits, resulting in the ESC kicking in its LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) limits. In fact, your number of 162 watts and 17 amps indicates your three cell LiPo is only putting out a bit over 9 volts. From what little experience I've got with LiPos, that voltage should be closer to 10 Volts DC. (99% of my experience is with those A123 cells, much to heavy for your models. It would take a 4 Series A123 battery to replace your 3 cell LiPo, those 4 cells will weight about 10 ounces.)

I ran the numbers on your setup with a 11X7 prop, 3 cell Flightpower 2100 LiPo. Motocalc suggests it should run at 34 Amps, 10 Volts, 340 Watts, and should turn that 11X7 prop at about 8000 RPM. If you go to a 4 cell LiPo, that prop will have to be something like 9 X 6 or similar. Motocalc suggests your motor will turn that 9x6 prop at about 11,000 RPM or so.

As for prop sizes, IMHO, stay away from those real light flimsy "Back yard flier" props. Those flimsy props won't hold their shape when running higher power levels. When running power levels like this, your motor should be outfitted with a prop like the APC-E series of Electric props.

That extra volt makes a substantial difference in power output. If you can locate one, I'd try a new 3 cell LiPo. Be VERY careful with that 4 cell LiPo. Going from three to 4 cells will about double the power input to your motor, using the same prop. That could burn up stuff. If you don't have one, now is the time to pick up one of those wattmeters, available from a number of different suppliers.

Also, there are several other computer programs that are available, some of them are free.

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Old 12-13-2012, 04:26 PM   #14
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Thanks for input; I will double check the battery and as an afterthough, make sure that the esc is programed correctly for a three cell. I don't rally want to use the 4 cell in this plane due to the extra weight. Will re-test with a different battery, plus I might try a 2200ma 65c and see what the readings are. And yes, I have a watts meter. Use it all the time.

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Old 12-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
Thanks for input; I will double check the battery and as an afterthough, make sure that the esc is programed correctly for a three cell. I don't rally want to use the 4 cell in this plane due to the extra weight. Will re-test with a different battery, plus I might try a 2200ma 65c and see what the readings are. And yes, I have a watts meter. Use it all the time.

Ah Ha
You're off to a good start!

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:32 AM   #16
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Ok; changed to another esc (exactly the same); now I get better reading so that I can make progress; New readings for the Stock 9.5X7.5 are

22.8 amps/ 242.9 watts.

For the 11X7E I got 23.9 amps/ 250.9 watts.

I have a 10X5, 10X7 and a 10X10 to test with.

Still using an e-flite 40 amp esc pro.

Downloaded Motorcalc; now, to figure out how to input the data. I haven't seen anything in there listed as E-flite yet, so will have to dig up the data and figure out how and where to enter it. Did download the PDF whch will help.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
Ok; changed to another esc (exactly the same); now I get better reading so that I can make progress; New readings for the Stock 9.5X7.5 are

22.8 amps/ 242.9 watts.

For the 11X7E I got 23.9 amps/ 250.9 watts.

I have a 10X5, 10X7 and a 10X10 to test with.

Still using an e-flite 40 amp esc pro.

Downloaded Motorcalc; now, to figure out how to input the data. I haven't seen anything in there listed as E-flite yet, so will have to dig up the data and figure out how and where to enter it. Did download the PDF whch will help.
That's funny my copy of motocalc does show the E-flite motors in their database. Go to the motor page, key in the letter "E", and scroll down from there.

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Old 12-14-2012, 01:03 AM   #18
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I was trying the "Motor" drop-down list; now I see what the little 'ICON" does. THAT HELPS.

Thanks. Something for me to work on while the wife is watching X-Factor.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:45 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
I was trying the "Motor" drop-down list; now I see what the little 'ICON" does. THAT HELPS.

Thanks. Something for me to work on while the wife is watching X-Factor.
LOL, a few years ago I was overseas in Malaysia when they were filming one of those "survivor" shows. It made the local papers. Those "Lost" people were within walking distance of a 5 star hotel.

(Where do you think the camera crew stays?)

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:42 PM   #20
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Got the time to drill out another prop, a 10X10E, and try it out on the Spitfire. Reading were 30.5 amps / 310 watts. Getting closer, maybe even close enough. Might try an 11X10 to see what happens. I would like to try a three bladed prop, so I will have to work that one out.

Messed around in motocalc again, but I will have to do some reading as I am not sure what data the program is asking for. I did not find my e-flite 40 amp/pro ESC, but I understand that I can build my own data base. I just want to enter enough data to come up with a prop. I learn things everday. Doing models and playing pickleball in Mesa AZ for the winter!!!
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:18 PM   #21
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I have seen 12x6 props at the hobby shop with 3 blades before. I would definately check the watt meter on that one though.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:34 PM   #22
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I would be difficult for me to use the 12 inch prop due to clearance when the plane lifts it's tail on take off. Local hobby shop has no 3 bladed props in stock, but there is always "on-line". I would think that if a 2 bladed E 10 in. prop gets me up to 30 amps, a 10 in. 3 bladed prop might do the trick. Thing is, how many props do I want to "buy and try" to get an answer. Motocalc is supposed to help, and I am trying to figure out all the parameters I have to enter to het answers. I have the motor, I have "built" my esc into the database, also my 60 amp esc for my test Stryker, I have built the airframe data, but I have to figure out what to do with "FILTER" and "DRIVE SYSTEM". I am reading, and getting there.

When this is done I will post the data on my test stryker. You will go YIKES!!!
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
I would be difficult for me to use the 12 inch prop due to clearance when the plane lifts it's tail on take off. Local hobby shop has no 3 bladed props in stock, but there is always "on-line". I would think that if a 2 bladed E 10 in. prop gets me up to 30 amps, a 10 in. 3 bladed prop might do the trick. Thing is, how many props do I want to "buy and try" to get an answer. Motocalc is supposed to help, and I am trying to figure out all the parameters I have to enter to het answers. I have the motor, I have "built" my esc into the database, also my 60 amp esc for my test Stryker, I have built the airframe data, but I have to figure out what to do with "FILTER" and "DRIVE SYSTEM". I am reading, and getting there.

When this is done I will post the data on my test stryker. You will go YIKES!!!
I don't even use the filter command. Just enter the motor data, battery data, just about any ESC like a Castle Creations 40 amp or so, and put in a range of propellers, say from a 10-6 to a 12-10. Motocalc will spit out a number of results, like a 10-6, 10-7 - - then 11-6, 11-7 and so on.

Click on one of the results, and click on the "Opinion" to see what the program thinks of your selection. Especially watch the rate of climb, and the propeller pitch speed, as compared to the stalling speed of your model.

The opinion feature will flag you if you try to put in to high, or two low of a pitch for the projected models stalling and flying speed.

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Old 12-15-2012, 01:34 AM   #24
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I uploaded an attachment; we shall see what happens.

Picked one item 10X10 prop to see if it comes close to what I actually read on the test which was 30.46Amps/310 watts. Curiously, an 11X10 got 30.53Amps/300watts.

Cells = 2
Gear Ratio = 1.00
Diam (in) = 10.0
Pitch (in) = 10.0
Weight (oz) = 52.0
Batt Amps = 6.5
Motor Amps = 6.5
Motor Volts = 3.4
Input (W) = 22.4
InPLd (W/lb) = 6.9
Loss (W) = 7.8
MGbOut (W) = 14.6
OutPLd (W/lb) = 4.5
MotGb Ef(%) = 65.3
Shaft Ef(%) = 30.3
Prop RPM = 3071
Thrust (oz) = 5.3
PSpd (mph) = 29.1
RofC (fpm) = -159
Time (m:s) = 24:49

Does not make sense to me; maybe having a gear ratio of one is wrong. I don't know.

My brain is starting to hurt!!


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Old 12-15-2012, 02:08 AM   #25
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If you look at the pitch speed and amprage of a 9X9 and 10X10 props, they closely mirror each other at lower power levels.

I "calculated" 75mph pitch speed with one, and 76 mph with the other. The amprage was very close between the two, being slightly higher for the 10X10 obviously. Theoredically, a 5X5 and a 10x10 should have the same pitch speed at the same rpm"s, but obviously, the 5X5 would have much less thrust. This is an over exageration obviously...

The 11X10 might produce more thrust, while not moving the air as fast, as a 10X10, giving you close to the same numbers.

Also remember, this is just a calculated guess, not a garentee. Still use your watt meter.
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