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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:20 PM   #1
Joe 1320
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Default Screamer 50mm EDF by Skyangel / Jpower

Every so often, a design comes out that reminds you of something else. Then upon closer look, things are completely different. This was the case with the new Screamer. The first time I saw this model, there were many fond memories of my good old Parkzone Stryker. I cut my teeth on prop jets with that model. It would float or zing depending on how much power was applied.

Then the pain set in. It wasn't called the Stryker for nothing. That prop hanging on the back would strike my fingers in the blink of an eye if attention to the hand launch wasn't 100%. It was at this point I remembered why it had been retired, to prevent any further loss of blood. That was a well loved plane, but it was time for self preservation. The old Stryker was boxed up and relegated to a dark, hidden corner of the hanger. Every time the mood struck me, that box would get pulled out to bring the old friend out for some fun. Then the mental pain set in all over again. I will not allow another prop strike to mangle my fingers so the old friend got pushed back into that dark corner with great sadness.

The next glance at the Screamer reminded me of a few other models that had an EDF pod sitting above the fuse, but for whatever reason those never appealed to me . Perhaps it was the not so streamlined look, maybe it was still the fondness for the stryker, who knows. The Screamer gives a very different feeling. Upon closer inspection, this looks better with every glance. No prop induced carnage, no ugly EDF pod sitting above the fuse, even the wing servos are well protected by the servo arms protruding through the top of the wing with the control horns residing on top of the elevons. The body has a neat, sculpted look as it blends into the wings, a clear canopy, this thing looks hot! I just couldn't resist this one and made the purchase.




I made the purchase from a relative newcomer to the hobby industry, www.hobbyb.com out of Canada. The website shows an extensive listing of the Skyangel line, more so in fact that any other vender I have run across. The pricing is quite reasonable and seems to cater to both ends of the consumer wish lists.... those that want plug and play along with those that want airframe kits to use their own electronics. I had not ordered from them before, but had run across a few others that had so the decision was made to indulge myself.

The model arrived well packaged and free from damage, the assembly couldn't be more simple. In fact, the parts mocked together in 15 seconds as the only assembly of the airframe that was required was to add the nose, rudders and clear canopy. The choice was made to purchase the airframe only. I already had a stash of 9g Towerpro servos, the stock 4300 kV motor and fan from other Skyangel / Jpower jets so there was no need for me to purchase a plug and play model. There are also plans for a different paint scheme so the fact that the airframe kit comes completely without paint is a huge plus. No stripping off a manufacturer applied paint job or decals that would have to be dealt with.








I was quite impressed with the quality of the foam. The fit and finish are top notch with no "gatorskin", bubbles or pits in the surface that is so common with many foamy airframes. The parts interlock effortlessly and the EDF housing has a few high strength magnets to hold the cover in place, a system that has worked with other Skyangel models so it should work just fine here as well. The same goes for the magnets that hold the canopy / battery hatch in place. With just under a 23" wingspan and low weight, the low wing loading of this model should allow it to either float or haul nicely. No possible prop strikes, sexy looks and the forgiving construction of EPO foam makes this a winner in my book. Now that the basics are out of the way, it's time to fully assemble this beastie.

For those wanting virtually immediate flight time, the plug and play model just needs your own receiver and lipo for almost immediate fun.






For the kit build, there are several items needed. EPO foam can be glued with a mulititude of different products. Epoxy, contact cements such as UHU Creative, polyurethane glue, even CA. Normal eps foam requires a foam safe glue as something like CA will melt the foam. EPO has a different chemistry and CA does not destroy the foam. Each type of adhesive has it's benefits and it's faults. Normally I would tend to use a 5 minute epoxy, but what I've noticed is that adhesive tends to turn yellow with age and sunlight exposure. Since this model will retian some of it's white color scheme, I will use a normal CA for any exposed glue line such as the rudders and the nose. A more flexible canopy glue like UHU creative will be used to glue the clear canopy to the battery hatch.


Next, two 7-9g servos will be required for the elevons mounted on the underside of the wings. depending on what manufacturer servos are used, there may be a need for harness extensions. The servo leads need to be approximately 12 inches long in order to reach the area where your receiver will be located. A simple 4 channel receiver is all that is needed. Since there are only two servos and a speed control, nothing fancy is required. If your transmitter is a basic model with no programming features, you would need a V-tail mixer as well in order to active the required elevon mixing of the servos. I will be using a Spektrum 6100 receiver, only because I happen to have one sitting in my parts bin. Any 4-6 channel receiver will work just fine. In the kit version, there are no control horns or rods included. I can't imagine why those parts aren't included in a kit, so this build will show how to fabricate these yourself.


Now for the power system. The manufacturer has designed the model for their 50mm EDF unit and their 4300 kV outrunner with extension.



The motor has been proven in other models to be perfectly happy on 4s voltage. The manufacturer supplies this motor and fan in their packaged planes and are run on a very conservative 3s 850 mAh lipo. Turning up the power to 4s voltage has shown a decent increase in thrust and speed with no adverse affects to the motor. The EDF unit, that might be another story. There appears to be a slight variation of quality when it comes to the stock EDF housing and rotors. Some aren't concentric right out of the box, while others are perfect. This issue will be addressed a little further in to the build, tips will be given on how to ensure a reliable and light weight fan unit.

Part of the power system is an appropriate speed control. this is another item with varied quality control. The speed controller as supplied in the other Skyangel jets is rated for 20A. On 3s voltage there is still headroom. on 4s voltage we are flirting with the upper end of it's rating. There are reports of great results on 4s voltages while there are other reports of the speed controller going up in a puff of smoke. This author has experienced great results with a stock 20A, however..... my intent with this build is to make sure there is little chance of failure. I've chosen a 30A esc, also available from hobbyb.com so that the option of installing a higher powered motor and fan would only involve swapping just the fan and motor. Even if the stock motor and fan is used, wide open throttle for the entire duration would not cause an overheating speed controller. With the 30A continuous rating and 40A burst rating, I'm confident there will be zero issues with only a miniscule weight difference.

The last factor in the power system is the flight battery. The battery bay is decently sized and could hold a wide range of lipos. To keep weight to a minimum, I will be using a 4s 800 mAh 40C lipo as long as the correct CG can be attained with that size of a battery pack. Now on to the build...........

__________________________________________________ ______

The servos are centered and their arms installed facing upwards though the top of the wing. This is a nice design as the arms won't catch on anything during a belly flop landing. The servo leads are pressed into the channels cut into the wing and follow along to the cutout that resides under the place that the EDF unit will mount. There is a center channel for the servo leads and the speed control that runs up to the cockpit area where the receiver and lipo will be installed.





The speed controller chosen was an Aeolian 30A (40A burst) that is rated for 3-4S voltage with a built in 2A at 5V BEC. This came from www.hobbyb.com as well. The speed controller is programmable, and comes with programming instructions. Hooray! Those that have purchased budget speed controllers before that did not come with programming instructions can relate to the joy there. Everything was soldered up to the motor and fan, the power system was then tested.





Once the powersystem was tested, the assembly was installed in the fuselage. The EDF unit was glued into place with UHU creativ ( or UHU POR) to prevent any movement while in use. The fan cover is magnetic and just pops into place. That by itself doesn't seem strong enough to hold the fan in place, so that's where I chose to glue the fan with a flexible glue. The glue is strong enough to hold everything in place, but with enough force, the fan can be removed with no damage.






Here's a shot of the battery tray holding a 1300 mAh lipo. There is room for something even larger! We're not going that large on this one unless the weight is needed for a correct CG, I just wanted to show this for referance.





So with the servos, receiver and power system installed, it has been set aside for the glue to dry. Since control horns and control rods are not included in the bare kit, I will need to supply those.

I've taken a short cut and instead of fabricating the control horns, I dug out a set of drjohnslaser.com ply control horns. They are laser cut and come in sheet form, you just punch out a set and glue them into place. I've used them on many occations and are actually stronger than the plastic ones supplied in kits.



The control horns are now glued into place and control rods with Z bends are added.





I just happen to get the idea to try this. I seem to remember this design from somewhere, for the life of me I can't seem to remember where. It won't be finished this way, I just wanted to fab it up this way for pics.





The vertical stabs were then glued in the proper V configuration, the nose cone was glued as well and we're ready to rock and roll!




A 3s 1000 mAh 30C lipo was used for the first test hop to see what the performance would be like as the manufacturer intended. The CG was checked for the recommended 45mm back from the intake lip. There was a break in the rainy Florida weather so we went out for the maiden flight. The excitement and anticipation never gets old when you toss an unproven model into the sky. There was just a hint of air movement, the throttle was opened up and I gave it a toss.......

Oh my. I felt like I almost botched the launch, the model quickly took off out of my hand and started to climb, evidently this one doesn't really need an upward arc on the hand launch. It even surprised my wife who was operating the camera, it took here a few moments to find the model in the sky. That is a rare occurance as she's quite good and tracking an RC plane. In a few seconds she was on it again. The power is superb, the rate of climb is stunning, it quickly became evident this was going to be a HUGE winner. On the flip side, the power off glide was among the best I've seen on an EDF jet. I was blasting vertical, shutting off and doing dead stick glide tests. The plane tracks well, I noticed that I had forgotten to completely clear out all the transmitter settings. There was some differential programmed in to the elevon mixing so a little remixing needed to be done.

Here is the intial test hop, a better video will follow after the transmitter has been reprogrammed.


So in summary, on 3s this model has essentially unlimited vertical. The glide range is so exceptional that you'll need to plan your landings. When I mean plan them, I mean you can cut throttle down wind, make a gradual turn and you will still likely overshoot your landing spot. By far, this is the best performing 50mm jet that Jpower has offered to date. It's evidently very effecient because this is using the same motor and fan as every other Jpower model yet the performance leaves the others in the dust. I can't stress enough how fantastic this little hod rod performs.




The Plus side:


*Quality molded EPO construction.
*Great fit of the parts.

*Outrageous performance on stock power system.
*Clear canopy included.
*Plenty of room for electronics and lipo.
*Quick build time.
*Well packed from vender.



The Minus side:
*Lack of control rods, horns or instructions in airframe kit.
even though the assembly is easy, those items should be included.

*No pilot figure like what is included in the plug and play version.


__________________________________________________ _



This jet steps right smack into the serious performance catagory and this author gives it the highest rating of the Jpower 50mm jet line. I can't quite say it's for a beginning pilot, but I cannot imagine anyone with some previous skill not thinking this is complete blast to fly. Even without instructions, the build is pretty simple and anyone with prior assembly experince can figure it out with zero drama. Get one and you won't be sorry.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:27 PM   #2
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Thanks for posting Joe ! I like this as well as the new Katana. Both look like winners. How are Hobbyb's shipping charges? Been thinking about the Rare Bear and a Katana. Already have the F-16, T-45 and the AT-6 Texan. Really like the Jpowers line-up and I agree, Hobbyb seems like they are committed to supporting the JPowers products.

-Hawk
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:57 PM   #3
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Great review and i too have still got my old Styker which hasn't been flown in a long time,i never did hit my fingers on the prop though but that might of been luck on my part.
When i first looked at the photos of this model it did reminded me of the Stryker too and that was before i read what you had to say about the Screamer,there again it also reminded me of the Hobbyking Jetiger which is also an EDF wing type of a plane,it also reminded me of another couple of wings out there but i can't remember there names off hand,probably because i don't have them like i do the old Styker and the HK Jetiger.

Here i'll post a couple of photos of the Jetiger and see if you can see a simpler look to these planes,i guess they look a like because they are flying wings and are a proven set-up who knows but i like your taste in models.

Thanks for sharing and i hope we get to hear all about the maiden flight which i bet will be a walk in the park,as these type of planes are great fun as they seem to fly slow if need be but can really eat that sky too when the fun really starts.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Park_Jet.html
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:58 PM   #4
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sorry.... no interest in the stuff from HK. Bad experiences from there.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:07 PM   #5
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It's funny as I was playing with idea of strapping a Jpower 50mm on the back of a Parkjet ... just to see what it would do ... Now I don't need to - they've done it for me.

So how long before a thread starts where people are pushing the speed envelope ?

Nigel

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:51 PM   #6
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The micro Stryker is a bit of fun with the twin rudder setup, it makes inverted flat spins a hoot. Maybe at some point functional rudders........








.

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The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:30 AM   #7
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Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Joe 1320 View Post
I can also see that if someone were to throw caution to the wind and ultimately decide they wanted a pusher prop, it would be a really simple conversion. With a 20" wingspan and maybe a 400-450 Watt motor with prop, I could see this being utterly ballistic. Can you imagine 500+ watts on this thing?
Surely simple way to have virtually same is to just buy the HK Parkjet at $15 ?
My Parkjet is currently running over 700W with speed trials building up to max ... hopefully to hit 250kph soon.

What I like about this Screamer is the faired in EDF ... very nice.

I have one niggle with Jpowers and their motor. It is unusual design as the shaft hub is longer than other similar outrunner motors. You either have to source exact same motor again or use an inrunner to fit the EDF unit. But as to it's actual power - it's very good but does eventually burn out on 4S. I had about 3 months of frequent use on 4S before finally the motor said enough ... I replaced with a 4890kv inrunner of Ebay ...

Nigel

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Old 08-16-2012, 01:52 PM   #9
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sorry.... no interest in the stuff from HK. Bad experiences from there. I do find it out of place to immediately start posting links to alternate product, it's bad form. So please, no more links to HK airframes.









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The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:26 PM   #10
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Joe,

Great build thread !

Though I can't say I've had any major issues with HK, I'm only into hundreds with them not thousands like you. I will say that I am very pleased with Hobbyb from Canada. They seem to be 100% committed to the Jpowers series inclusive of the Skyangels and the Mini-Warbirds. Just ordered the Rare Bear kit and am awaiting the restocking of the new Katana which sold out almost immediately.

What's really cool about this series to me is the Henry Ford concept of interchangable parts. I always have one "Hangar Queen" when I need something in a hurry. Plus, the flexibility in most of the models to go up to 4S for that sudden urge for speed.

-Hawk
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Joe,

Great build thread !

Though I can't say I've had any major issues with HK, I'm only into hundreds with them not thousands like you. I will say that I am very pleased with Hobbyb from Canada. They seem to be 100% committed to the Jpowers series inclusive of the Skyangels and the Mini-Warbirds. Just ordered the Rare Bear kit and am awaiting the restocking of the new Katana which sold out almost immediately.

What's really cool about this series to me is the Henry Ford concept of interchangable parts. I always have one "Hangar Queen" when I need something in a hurry. Plus, the flexibility in most of the models to go up to 4S for that sudden urge for speed.

-Hawk
Thanks! I'm having a blast with this whole line. I even have back ups of certain models if they end up being a favorite.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Joe 1320 View Post
...............There is also another 50mm fan that uses 6 blades. It requires modifications but the blades are stronger and so is the housing. The main issue is that the rotor is drilled for a 2mm shaft so it requires redrilling to use it on a 3mm motor shaft.
.................
The 50mm 6 blade is a good upgrade, but it is a tight fit in the Skyangel shroud. Mine rubbed when initially fitted ... but once sorted - it is a much better rotor.

The other upgrade which is a really good way to push the envelope - is the 51mm EDF unit at Hobby King. It takes a bit of work to get it in, but unlike a 55 .. it still leaves plenty meat to the foam around it. The thrust is dramatically increased and also throttles much better .. I use a 4980kv motor in mine.

The stock 4300kv JPower motor is a good motor - but hard to find and also strange dimensions ...

Nigel

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:51 PM   #13
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the 51mm fan is by Haoye, available from bidproduct.com and can also be purchased with motor too. Competitve pricing and better service. Most RC products can be bought from several sources.





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Old 08-16-2012, 10:37 PM   #14
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It certainly pushed my T45 along at a good pace. Using the 4980kv inrunner in it, the mount as you know is a difficult size for an outrunner ... the throttling was excellent ...

Unfortunately today - the motor decided to shed it's end cap and failed ... so I've fitted the 50mm 6 blade edf unit also from HK ... with a 5000kv outrunner in it ... WOW is all I can say ! It needed a length of double sided tape round it to pad out to the 51mm seat .. plus keep it in place ...

Looking fwd to having her up in air tmrw ! 4S on it is amazing.

Nigel

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Old 08-17-2012, 12:37 AM   #15
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the 6 blade fan is a light duty Haoye, also available from toysonics, bidproduct, etc. quantity discounts too.

http://www.toysonics.com/1.97inch-50...-fan-unit.html

http://www.bidproduct.com/more/cartl...nSearch=Search

bidproduct offers free shipping as well.





There are plenty of options worldwide to get products, it's a global distribution and economy.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:24 AM   #16
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Joe are you running a separate BEC with 4s?
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:30 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Joe are you running a separate BEC with 4s?
Ya know, I almost did. I usually run a seperate BEC when coming close to maxing out a speedo, or when using more than 3 servos, when using larger servos. I have several Jpower jets where I used a Hobbywing 30A speedo and used the internal BEC so I am rolling the dice with this Aeolian 30A as it seems to be a hobbywing clone. I hope I'm right that with only a 23A draw and 2 servos it will be fine. I guess we'll see.

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Old 08-17-2012, 01:38 AM   #18
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Yea I would worry. I suspect on 4s that 2amp bec is down to around 300-400 mA of output.

One test you can run is plug in the 4s and stir the servos quickly (no need to run the motor that does not matter much) and stick your finger right over the BEC chip and see how warm it gets.

Those servos are POWER hungry too. But as you point out - sometimes it works - based on the BEC quality.

I wish the manufactures would list the BEC output at the various input voltages so we can make a more informed decision. I just usually get the separate BEC - cheap insurance.

Mike
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:46 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
I wish the manufactures would list the BEC output at the various voltages so we can make a more informed decision. I just usually get the separate BEC - cheap insurance.

Mike
That sure would be nice wouldn't it. Rarely do the manufacturers ever even suggest not using the internal BEC above 3s. I was thinking about doing the maiden on 3s just to see how it does as the manufacturer supplies the plug and play models and stepping it up to 4s after that.

I know that if this were a 3d plane, there is no way I would chance it. There's too much heavy servo use in that kind of model.

I'll say a little prayer right before it leaves my hand. LOL.

Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:09 AM   #20
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Owner of the Atomic RC Workshop.

The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:02 AM   #21
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Good luck on the maiden Joe ! Gonna give her a little paint on the bottom? Anxious for the flight report. Looks like a no-brainer to put together and setup. Thanks for the tip on the horns. I'm always running out to the LHS for horns. I confer on the bec for these planes. There's not really that much going on with the servos. I'll use a UBEC for planes with full 3 axis and retracts, but these little ones?

Can't wait for the Katana hit the shelves. Looked like Hobbyb had the jump on Toysonics,HK and BH with these new releases.

-Hawk
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:03 PM   #22
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Never had a problem with both my Jpower 50mm models on 4S and BEC on stock ESC and later larger HK / Red Brick ESC's .....

It's nice to see the links to Jpower gear - trouble is for many like me - we don't live in USA ...

Nigel

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Old 08-17-2012, 02:37 PM   #23
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Nigel,

Have a news flash for you as I just learned this today. Though Hobbyb 's web operation is located in Vancouver, Canada, the shipment actually comes from Hong Kong. Received shipping notification this morning that the Hong Kong post is sending my new Rare Bear.

This gives you another source for Jpowers ! The nice thing is they have kits and a complete line of replacement parts. To ship via airpost cost me $22.00 USD.


Cheers,

-Hawk
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:45 PM   #24
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Red bricks won't run high kV motors like the Jpower 35mm, they just studder. Go figure.




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The Flying part is easy.... it's the landings that will do you in. :p
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #25
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Registered with Toysonic ... so they ship outside USA - which most don't ... prices not bad also.

Took the T45 for a flight this evening with the 5000kv Hobby King motor, 50mm Hobby King EDF unit + 6 blade rotor, 4S 1600 35C LiPo ............ WOW I've had my 50mm's go quick - but this was a Bat out of Hell .... I reckon faster than the 51mm 7 blade EDF I had in before.

To fit the motor - I had to shorten the motor tube back to the fixed stators, removed the extra tube sticking out back - which is not structural.

Magic !!

Nigel

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