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Old 08-21-2012, 02:26 AM   #1
jbettinelli
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Hello all, I am a long time nitro flyer, moving into electrics. Naturally, I have questiosn, and if they have been answered in th epast, thnaks in advance for direction towards those solutions, but if not, here are a few questions, in no particular order;

brand name vs china components, like ESC's & motors. Is there a reason for the price variation other than markups distribution, etc, or is the quality equal? A $60 60A eflite esc the same as a $30 60A esc from HK??

same with the motor, tips on what to stay away from, or is the value there with OS electrics, Eflite, etc? Value enough to stay away from discount parts?

When I plug the weights, parts, motors esc's etc suggested by the Horizon hobby/H9 airplanes, on programs such as 'ecalc', it seems there is not enough prescribed power or I get a prop stall warning. I have been inputting the airplane weight and recommended motor/parts/prop, in order to determine if the part subs I would like to use would work.

Thanks for any clarifications, eventually I want to be all electric, so I value the opinions of the experienced...Joe
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:46 AM   #2
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Check out www.headsuprc.com

It will give you plenty of information, and many of their motors come with reccomendations as to plane size, esc's and supporting hardware.

Their power up and firepower series are arranged by plane size, so a power up 10 could fit well for a 10 sized plane, same forr a 25,32,46 ect.

I personally have flown ONLY with headsup electric parts, which cost 1/2 to 1/3 what eflight parts do, but keep in mind you do get what you pay for. Trying to find that ballance between power , logevity and cost can be hard at first though.

Heads up does stand behind their products, will give you reccomendations and answer questions through email.

There are quite a few faq's on electric flight for any simple questions you might have.

Out of every esc I have had from heads up, 3 40 amps and a 60 amp have performed flawlessly. I had one 30 amp with an intermittient bec problem, and threw it in a scrap pile.

The esc's in my opinion are pretty much the same, until you get to liner vs switch mode esc's. The switch modes are more expensive, but much more reliable and able to cope with more servo's easier. The liner I have had good luck with, until you get to my 30 amps esc, which burned up with only 2 servo's. It is reccomended that you go with a ubec, or switch mode bec, or seperate battery when you go to 3 cell or above. The expensive esc's like the castle creations have a very good warranty as well as some having data logging functions.

Let us know if you have any problems, or more questions.

Welcome to the forum.

Btw, heads up also has 2 quick shipping and very reasonable prices. I don't work there, just a very happy customer.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:59 AM   #3
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Being in a similar situation, heads up rc was prompt answering my questions about a glow to electric conversion. The prices are very reasonable and shipping was amazing. Placed order on Saturday, it was filled and shipped the same day and it was at my door on Tuesday.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:34 AM   #4
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There are many reasons for price differences including quality control, customer service, feature set, component/material quality etc. But in general if you get a good cheapie it will work about as well as the more expensive ESC/motor/battery etc. If you get a bad one, tough .

These days I run mainly cheapies but on the understanding that if one turns up that doesn't work well it's easiest just to cut my losses, throw it away and buy another. Since less than one in ten doesn't work out for me I'm well ahead in money terms .

Steve
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:20 PM   #5
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One major problem with the Chinese stuff is that its actual performance is much different than what is claimed. As long as you run the equipment within its REAL capabilities, it's great stuff. The minute you try powering that 250 watt motor up with 250 watts, sometimes you'll find yourself generating the magic smoke.

I use a program called Drive Calculator (it's free) to decide what a motor is good for. Drive Calculator's numbers are test numbers, not manufacturer claims. The motor I use for my Slow Stick, the Turnigy 2217-20 is sold as a 240 watt motor. Checking out Drive Calculator, I could see that 200 watts was safe. I designed my system around that as wide-open draw and the motor has been better than great!
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #6
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Another thing to think about when ordering from China is customer service. If the order is fouled up or lost you are out of luck. Don't order from RCTimer there is absolutly no customer service I had to go to PayPal to get my money back when the order got lost in the mail. Granted getting lost might not have been their fault but when I asked for a refund or to send another order their answer was, and I quote (you check with your post office and we will check with ours). PayPal finally refunded my money after 50 or so days of e-mails. Some of the parts I have received with earlier orders were fine but their batteries are junk and I mean junk. Do not order from this company

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Old 08-21-2012, 10:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
One major problem with the Chinese stuff.....
Fact is it's ALL 'Chinese stuff'. Almost without exception every piece of electronic hardware we use and every ARF/RTF model is 'made in China'. Just check the 'made in' sticker on your Hacker motor or Castle Creations ESC

Some stuff is marketed and in some cases maybe even designed by non-Chinese companies, but no one can afford to buy anything that's made anywhere else but China. Just because it's all 'made in China' does not mean it's all the same quality, some is excellent, some is diabolical, lots is somewhere in-between. But lets be clear; 'made in China' doesn't mean cheap junk with dubious ratings.

Steve
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jbettinelli View Post
Hello all, I am a long time nitro flyer, moving into electrics. ...
E-flight 101 by RCG member Ken Myers, will at least save you a ruined LiPo (or worse!), a burnt motor and a fried ESC:
http://www.theampeer.org/framesefo.html
-> Electric Power Basics
and this e-book
-> Everything youw wanted to know about e-flight (Ed Anderson)

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Old 08-22-2012, 01:02 AM   #9
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I run my headsup electronics at the maximum ratings given, and have had no issues. I knife edged my trainer for 11 minutes straight at wot and the motor was barely warm when I got it down. It pulled 239 watts static test on a watt meter.

I do way oversize my esc's though. I am running 40 amp esc's on my 22 amp motors.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Fact is it's ALL 'Chinese stuff'. Almost without exception every piece of electronic hardware we use and every ARF/RTF model is 'made in China'. Just check the 'made in' sticker on your Hacker motor or Castle Creations ESC

Some stuff is marketed and in some cases maybe even designed by non-Chinese companies, but no one can afford to buy anything that's made anywhere else but China. Just because it's all 'made in China' does not mean it's all the same quality, some is excellent, some is diabolical, lots is somewhere in-between. But lets be clear; 'made in China' doesn't mean cheap junk with dubious ratings.

Steve
Yeah, Steve, I should have said "some" Chinese stuff. And the thing that separates the honestly rated stuff from the imaginary rated stuff is the guys who sell it.

When you buy from Heads Up, for instance, they tell you what their testing found the equipment capable of. They typically give current draw, thrust and tip speed for several different propellers with a given motor. And that motor will run any of their recommended props reliably with performance just about exactly what they claim. Why? Because you're seeing test results, not manufacturer claims.

On the Hobby King website, that item description contains manufacturer claims. Often the customer comments and reviews will set you straight on the real capabilities. Drive Calculator might also set the record straight. But when shopping there, if it isn't clear, I don't buy. The manufacturer claims are good entertainment and that's about it. I still love shopping Hobby King. Heads Up is first choice though.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by jbettinelli View Post
Hello all, I am a long time nitro flyer, moving into electrics. Naturally, I have questiosn, and if they have been answered in th epast, thnaks in advance for direction towards those solutions, but if not, here are a few questions, in no particular order;

brand name vs china components, like ESC's & motors. Is there a reason for the price variation other than markups distribution, etc, or is the quality equal? A $60 60A eflite esc the same as a $30 60A esc from HK??

same with the motor, tips on what to stay away from, or is the value there with OS electrics, Eflite, etc? Value enough to stay away from discount parts?

When I plug the weights, parts, motors esc's etc suggested by the Horizon hobby/H9 airplanes, on programs such as 'ecalc', it seems there is not enough prescribed power or I get a prop stall warning. I have been inputting the airplane weight and recommended motor/parts/prop, in order to determine if the part subs I would like to use would work.

Thanks for any clarifications, eventually I want to be all electric, so I value the opinions of the experienced...Joe
If you're converting from glow to electric, I'm guessing you were flying fairly good sized models??

If so, take a look:

Great Planes Giant Big Stick Electric Conversion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65052

Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

Hacker 6S2P A123 powered Models
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686

AEAJR's Site on Electric Power
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18521


Nowdays, it's easy to put together a 60 something inch wingspan, 8 pound electric model that can outperform the same model equipped with a glow engine.

I'm an absolute Hacker nut, and all of my models have Hacker motors in them. From a Hacker A30 size to two Hacker A60 size. When you get to the larger multikilowatt sized models, IMHO, it is very wise to buy quality motors/ESC's/batteries.

My models are all powered by those A123 batteries. These batteries work and work well. But you pretty much have to build your own battery packs, or pay a lot of $$$$ to have someone else do it. A123 cells are about 35% more weight than a LiPo, and are also physically larger than a LiPo. On the other hand, they have zero fire risk, and can be built into your model, and charged in your model. I charge mine at 7.5 Amps per cell which recharges them in about 15-20 minutes. Two of my models are configured with 12S2P (12 Series 2 parallel) A123's, that are charged as a 6S4P pack, charge current is 30 Amperes.

I've got some A123 cells on their fifth year of flying with 300 plus flights on them. They have the same exact performance as when they were brand new.

Nowdays LiPo battery costs have really dropped, and are ideal for models under perhaps one or two Kilowatts in power.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:21 PM   #12
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The Future is Electric - Ampeer Newsletter
-> Glow to Electric Conversion

And
Glow to Electric Follow-up Questions - Ampeer
Ken Myers' Glow to Electric Excel Worksheet Questions - Ampeer

Books
www.theampeer.org/ampeer/ampnov11/ampnov11.htm#BOOKS

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