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Old 08-25-2012, 07:15 AM   #1
Slowjohn
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Default Time for another scratch built Not For Sale

Where to start
About 5 or 6 years ago I saw a plane named the Not For Sale (NFS). It was a strange looking plane but after a little research I learned that at one time it was a fairly popular RC airplane and it had a good flying reputation. I ordered the plans from a vendor on eBay and was pleased with them and the color copy of the magazine article that came with it.
I had a stock of 6mm Depron and decided that I'd build one about 3/4 size of the original. I also thinned the wing thickness as I wanted something a little faster flying. What I came up with was a very nice, easy to fly airplane. It was easy to transport & it went with me just about every time I went flying. The following is my post a few weeks after it's demise.

4-10-2010, 02:25PM

It Was Horrible...
I Hate Fire Ant Mounds More Than Ever Now !!!


My FB and I were out several weeks ago and I was flying my NotForSale (NFS) that was my favorite grab and go. I also loved the way it landed and had started bringing it in hot & about 12" ~ 18" off the deck. Then I'd let it glide until it settled in on it's own. I'd gotten to the point that I didn't have to walk but maybe 20' at the most usually to pick it up if I couldn't taxi it back to me.
So we've had a lot of rain this past Winter & Spring & the grass was tall from not being mowed for quite some time and the Fire Ants had also moved their mounds up to higher ground to avoid living in the mud I guess. Anyway there I was having brought it down to the point it was just skimming the tops of the grass when all at once she started that sickening tumbling & cart wheeling in slow motion and it went on & on & on & ...
My FB claimed it happened so fast that he blinked & missed most of the cart wheeling Anyway neither of us knew what had just happened until we went back to look at what had caused the wreck. That's when we found the mound and all the activity on & around it. There wasn't much damage to the mound, just barely clipped the top wouldn't ya know , just clipped it enough to totally destroy my most acrobatic flyer
Sorry there's no pictures of the crash site but I couldn't bring myself to come home & get the camera, then go back to the field to walk thru the mud just for some photos of a site I won't forget for a very long time.

All I can say is that it seemed to go on forever and I could hear ever piece that was breaking as it came apart. It was a Horrible sound and it's first and only crash in the 2 years that I'd been flying it.

SJ

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I've been wanting another NFS for quite some time now but due to several deaths this year in the family & numerous health problems have delayed my building another one. At the beginning of this year I dozed off in my desk chair and pinched a nerve in my left arm. That took almost 3 months for me to get full use of it and then about 3 months ago I did the same thing again but this time it was my right arm It was getting better & faster than the first time but something happened and I lost all use of my right hand again a month ago
Anyway it's gotten good enough that I decided to exercise it some by scratch building another foam NFS (full size) but with a few changes and since I happen to have a Balsa Short Kit I'm thinking I'll build one per the original plans only with electric power of course
Now as most of you know I'm about the slowest builder there is on WF so kick back, build something yourself and enjoy
Standing By,
SJ


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Old 08-25-2012, 09:35 AM   #2
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That sure is an interesting looking plane! Looks like a fun one. I think I recall seeing planes like that. And slow building? It takes me 2 weeks to make an ARF ready! Look forward to seeing the results!
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:59 PM   #3
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Default Just some stuff before...

It is a lot of fun to fly big time. It's a great grab-n-go plane too. It'll fly like a hot set up Ugly Stick type plane or can be as docile as a trainer. Just depends on how you set it up (Mild or Wild) & how you use your thumbs and the throttle
I'm setting this one up a little different hoping it'll be more manuverable/aerobatic but the next one will be built per the original plans.
Below are some photos of about 3/4 of the projects & kits I have out in the shop. The rest are stashed in my bedroom. For the life of me I can not figure out why I keep buying kits & other projects as I figure I have enough to last me at least 8 or 6 years ...but just recently I stopped by a local bank that was getting a face lift and they were using formed Styrofoam blocks as the base before using some sort of plaster/stucco over it all. I asked about if I could get whatever they didn't use & I wound up filling my 3/4 ton Ford Cargo van up 3 times & it was all good stuff too
Another 50 or so planes there very easily & all the pieces are 48" long

Having troubles uploading pictures so I'll have to try posting those later today. Have gotten quite a bit more done on the build and I'll post those photos as well later on.

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SJ

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Old 08-27-2012, 11:23 PM   #4
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Default M.A.N. magazine NFS article

Here's the M.A.N. magazine construction article on the NFS from many moons ago

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 08-28-2012, 12:02 AM   #5
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Default

Hi John, Glad you're back at it again.

Where's the Aeromaster?

Paul
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:28 AM   #6
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Default

Howdy Paul,

Great to hear from you. This build & maybe another quick build are meant as sort of a tune up/test build. Have had so much trouble with my hands this year that it's really been depressing. Three times this year I've lost all use of my hands, first of my left hand from the wrist on & then twice of my right hand. Just as my right hand was getting to where I could use it again it relapsed I haven't been able to fly much at all these year either and the times I was able to go I didn't have a good go of it I'm all the time knocking things off the table or where ever I'm setting some thing down or picking some thing up. Anyway I'm hoping that these builds will be good therapy & help me get back on track.
The Aeromaster manual was placed back into the box till such time that I can use my hands again and by that time I'm hoping it'll be cooler as well. By 2:00 PM most days it's just too hot in the shop to do anything. Since I don't sleep like most folks I've been going out to work on my planes at around 4:00 or 5:00 AM most mornings here lately. Maybe by the time it gets hot again next year I'll have the shop Air Conditioned.

Still can not get the photos to upload.

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SJ

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Old 08-28-2012, 08:23 PM   #7
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Default Trying again

Trying again to post some photos of the inside of the shop & all the projects I have in waiting
Another 16 kits & 5 other planes needing work plus a Hydrofoil boat & 2 cars are in my bedroom waiting their turn as well
Then there's several large boxes stuffed full of plans so I doubt I'll run outta planes to build for a really long time if I live that long


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Old 08-29-2012, 01:01 AM   #8
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Talking Foam Find

In post #3 I mentioned finding a supply of foam...
Will post progress pictures of the NFS tomorrow. So far I'm very pleased with how it's going together & IMO it's looking darn good too



Standing By,
SJ


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Old 08-29-2012, 03:28 AM   #9
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Default

SJ,

Great to see you building again! It seems you could even build your next house from all of that foam, or better yet a full sized plane for you!

The NFS is a very different looking plane. Seems like it would be lots of fun and a conversation starter at the club! I am always attracted to the odd and older designs... I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Opps - I forgot - With your renowned building speed we'll all have to wait.

Steve

Growing the fleet!
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:01 AM   #10
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Default

Hey John that is a cool old design saw one of those for sale awhile ago on ebay thought it was ugly but charming at the same time. Found a site to buy the plans at for 14.95 Might have to look into this one later on down the road.
http://www.airagestore.com/plans/rc-...otforsale.html

Well as it was said in Forrest Gump "run Forrest run" In your case it shall be Build John build.
Looking forward to your build.


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Old 08-29-2012, 05:35 AM   #11
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Talking Teaser

Thanks Steve,

Do you realize just how hard & long I had to work & just how much I had to hurt myself to get this slow

Okay, just to satisfy you fast builders out there, here's some teasers from a few days ago

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 09-03-2012, 03:49 PM   #12
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Default Update

Not much to show although it seems like there should be. Into that part of the build that's a little time consuming & doesn't show much has been done. I'm ready to install the servos & such in the fuselage. I also need to build the H-stab & elevator. The fiberglass/CF LE was glued in place yesterday. The TE has been install as well. Most all of the fuselage formers have been cut & glued into place as well.
Have to go out of town today to buy a clothes dryer & that means a stop at Harbor Frieght for me & Hobby Lobby (if they're open) as well for the wife Of course I can always find something there as well for myself like the plastic coated foam sheets that the fuselage is built with on this build. Then we'll meet up with the daughter & the 2 grandkids for a late lunch so more than likely there'll be no building today.
Oh, then I'll have to supervise the installation of the dryer don't ya know
Ya'll will notice that I have punctured lots of small holes where the wood meets and is glued to the HL panels. This allows the adhesives to soak into the foam creating a stronger bond IMO. Have to be careful though to not penetrate all the way through both sides. I also scuffed the plastic coating where the wood meets also creating a stronger bond. Lots of the time I'll use Elmer's Carpenter Wood glue & then spot glue the joint with medium CA to hold it in place while the Elmers glue dries & I can move on to the next step.

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 09-03-2012, 04:07 PM   #13
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Default

Originally Posted by gramps2161 View Post
Hey John that is a cool old design saw one of those for sale awhile ago on ebay thought it was ugly but charming at the same time. Found a site to buy the plans at for 14.95 Might have to look into this one later on down the road.
http://www.airagestore.com/plans/rc-...otforsale.html

Well as it was said in Forrest Gump "run Forrest run" In your case it shall be Build John build.
Looking forward to your build.
Thanks John,
I like that "Build John build"
I'm sure that anyone would enjoy flying this older design. I'm also hoping that the changes I'm making will make it more snappy & aerobatic than my first one although there wasn't really anything wrong with how it flew. After this one is built I plan on building another one by the plans. I have a short kit for it so that'll save me lots of time cutting out parts. I really like the short kit I bought from here;
http://store.laser-design-services.com/

Standing By,
SJ

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:05 PM   #14
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Default Wing Spar photos

Well my little trip out of town was a waste of time & money
Didn't get a clothes dryer nor did I get to HF or HL
120+ mi. rd. trip @ 10 mpg X $3.69 a gal. for gas =
Oh well, we have to have a bad day every so often so that we'll enjoy the good days more
Today is gonna be one of those days were I won't get a chance to do much of anything on the NFS but I do have some photos from yesterday morning before the heat & humidity got to me.
I thought I was building a straight wing but some how I wound up with a twist in the wing so I've spent the past hour shimming, blocking up or weighting down the wing before I glued in the top wing spar. From here on every step will have to have a tad bit of correction built into it so that hopefully by the time I'm ready to cover it I'll have a straight wing when I'm finished.

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 09-05-2012, 09:10 PM   #15
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Default Wing Spar cont.

After the pass is made with the soldering iron you take a small straight bladed screw driver and insert it where the first cuts were made along the spar lines. With a slight twist & lifting motion the rough edges left from the pass of the soldering iron will come loose leaving a smooth line. I use a straight edge when I make my 1st cuts for the spar. My hands aren't that steady any more so...

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 09-10-2012, 09:30 PM   #16
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Thumbs up Catch up update

Been trying to do an update since last Saturday but so much has been happening & other than still not having a clothes dryer it's all good

I think the best way to do this is a day to day list of what all has been going on.

Thursday,
Got a lot done on the build, well for me it was a lot. I'll post pictures later in a few days as I have so much to do outside before the predicted rains come. Anyway I had been stretching what "foam safe" CA I had left waiting on my order from Precision Aero, (that holiday weekend thing ya know). The order arrived at noon & I was happy big time. However I was horrified when I applied the first bead to the center wing sheeting section where it meets the foam It almost immediately started eating away at the foam I stopped and called Ron @ Precision Aero & he didn't have any idea why the CA was eating away at my foam wing so he told me that he'd cal Bob Smith & have him call me within the hour. I didn't know it but Bob Smith Industries is the maker of the Precision Aero's labeled/re-branded line of CA glues. Anyway 20 ~ 30 minutes later Bob called & after about 10 minutes he had nailed down what was happening & why Seems they had run into the same thing about a year ago. If the foam had been sanded removing the glaze created by the Hot Wire, the new bottle of Super Thin "Foam Safe" CA being fresh & more potent than the year old stuff I had been using would melt the type of foam I had scored & was using for my NFS wing. Bob also told me that the Medium Gap Filling CA would Not melt the foam & would work very well for what I was wanting to do. It's good foam but something in it causes the Thin CA to go off Hot melting the foam Very nice man to talk to & I was impressed that he'd take the time to personally call me to help figure out a problem. Now that is service IMO! Does that remind ya'll of another favorite vendor a lot of us use? I'm very happy to find another company that's as good as Jeff of HURC. Kudos & a Big Thanks to both of those men.
Ron at http://www.precision-aero.com/shop/glues
Bob Smith at http://www.bsi-inc.com/

Friday,
Had another good morning working on the NFS
Then all building stopped b/c with no warning all of the grandkids were here When all of them are here I stop whatever I'm doing & they get my full attention. I just can not help it & I'd bet that if I was laying in my death bed I'd stop dying just so I could play with & have them all around me one more time

Saturday,
Sat. morning I drove over to my Bestest FB & borrowed his Incidence Meters. I noticed that there was a different Contractor working at the Bank where I'd scored all that foam last month. This time there was a 18' Lowboy trailer loaded with Pink Insulation and a fair amount of Celtex Ceiling tiles Yep, I got it for free & they even delivered it & unloaded it for me
Now that's the outside work I have to do before the rain sets in like it's forecast to do. BTW, according to the incidence meters everything is in line like it's supposed to be & the twist in the wing is almost gone My FB says it's good as it is but I want it closer so maybe one more correction to it should do the trick

Sunday,
Yippee, Finally got to go flying and brought them all home without any work needed
However the wife had plenty of work for me to do around the houses plus what I had to do still with my most recent find. Neither of the houses are fully insulated and both need the attics insulated. The house we've lived in for the past 6 years needs those ceiling tiles big time & the other house could use them as well so IMO I made another good score from that bank & it gets better but that one I can't really say anything about it. Just making a judgment call but I'm fairly sure that we will have enough to do both houses. I sure hope so.

Today,
Got a little more done to the fuselage this morning early before I went flying again. Have a little work to do on two planes but the maiden flight of my newest Sig Somethin' Extra went flawlessly
I just love the way that plane flies & I was so bummed out when my first one augured in at WOT from about 200'

Well that's about it for now. This is about the longest I've sat down in one place in about a week but I've got to get up and get going on my chores. I'll try & post pictures tomorrow but there's really not much to see. I'll try & have the tail-feathers built by the time I post anymore photos so that there will be something to see

Standing By,
SJ

Blue Skies, Calm Breezes & A Full Hanger
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:38 PM   #17
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Red face Another week gone by...,

Wow, time flies when your having fun so they say but it really flies by when your busy as can be & having some fun too
Took four days to get all the insulation sorted, rolled & put up out of the weather along with a 8' tall X 2 wide stack of CelTex or what's generally called Ceiling Tiles. I also threw away about 4 Poly Carts full of material that I didn't want to bother with.

I've also been able to get more building done on the NFS and have decided what the Trim scheme will be but still a little undecided about the colors to be used. I should be finished with the building portion tomorrow & then I'll cover the wing & the tail-feathers. Haven't quite decided yet what I'll do about how to finish the fuselage, whether I'll paint it, use color tapes or just leave it as is for now. I knew it was going to be close coupled but it's closer than I figured it was going to be

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 09-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #18
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Great job, John.
I'm really enjoying this build especially as you're using the same materials that I now work with. Only difference is I don't get them by the ton every time I go past a certain bank.
That was a really accurate cut out for the main spar by the way. I'm going to try doing your way next time as it saves a lot of nasty foam dust by the look of it.
Glad you're building and sharing.

Barry.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:14 PM   #19
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Talking Still working on the NFS, Slowly

Howdy Barry,

Glad you chimed in, it's always good to hear from you
The method I use to remove the foam for the spar takes a little practice. You always read/hear to do the practice thing on the material that your using. Well in this case I do suggest that a practice session be used but use the cheapest lightest foam you can find. Reason being is that the lighter cheaper foam will give you a better workout & will over-react to the soldering iron & the knife. When you can make good tight cut outs on the lighter cheaper foam then you'll be ready to make your spar cut outs in your intended foam material.

I've been working on the NFS almost everyday My hand is responding very well to my Therapy and IMO it's healing faster from the workout that I've been giving it
I'll take more photos this afternoon when I call it quits for the day. I'll start installing the servos today & running the wiring. Then I'll install the aileron hinges and the hinging chores will be done & I'll almost be ready to start covering it. I thought I had settled on the trim scheme but then when I was getting dressed this morning I saw some odd covering I had stashed in my BR a long time ago & I had another idea that's different from what I normally use on the bottom of my wings. I try to use the same style of trim on the bottom of most all of my wings so that I don't have to remember which plane has which trim scheme. Guess if I decide it's confusing or I don't like it then I can always change it back to what I normally do.
About the only balsa I need to cut and glue on is the wingtips. On this type of build where the wing is already glued in I wait till the last to do the wingtips so that I don't knock 'em off at least 3 or 2 times

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SJ

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Old 09-29-2012, 10:32 PM   #20
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John, I'm sure that model building is good therapy for your hand, it's certainly helped mine heal after the hospital left me with a nasty post op infection.
That's the reason that I haven't built or flown for the last three months but I'm back on track now.
I add the wing tips last as well to minimise hanger rash. Every little helps!!

Barry
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:36 PM   #21
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Talking Fun Distractions

It never fails when I set a semi-important deadline for myself to do something & I post it I get delayed, just "Par For The Course" of course
However this past weekend's delay was fun as the photos below show. The other part of the delay was our 18th anniversary on Oct. 1st but as of last August the wife & I have been together now for 20 years
No pictures of that though
NFS build pics will be the next post

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 10-02-2012, 08:04 PM   #22
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Talking A little more progress

Gettin' to looking like my vision. My 1st NFS shown in post #1 was also a scratch bashed NFS and it was such a joy to fly. I'm hoping this one will be more aerobatic when I want it to and also be as docile as my 1st one & like I've heard & read the original NFS was.
The next photos should be of a completed ready to maiden NFS or at least very close to it

Standing By,
SJ


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Old 10-03-2012, 12:08 AM   #23
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Nice work John, but it's not the Aeromaster.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:44 AM   #24
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I'm watching with interest!

Dave
AMA #56519
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:54 AM   #25
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Default Nice plane

Hi,
Nice job on the Not For Sale. Got me wondering about a smaller version out of fan fold foam...Hmmmmm
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