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Old 09-20-2012, 11:43 PM   #1
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Default Horizon Hobby poor customer support

I have bought alot of horizon products in the past including DX6i DX7 DX8 radios. Eflight mcx msr msrx mcpx blade sr ultra micro beast ultra micro sbach ultra micro extra 300 Carbon Z Yak 54 etc etc.

Recently I bought a blade 130x. It has got to be the worse put together heli I have ever owned. The parts are really cheap. Horizon Hobbies have had a record number of returns of these helis. If you google 130x problems you will be reading reports all night. It seems Horizon have sold these expecting the public to test them whilst paying for the privilege. I emailed Horizon telling them of my problems and explaining that I didn't expect to pay £170 for a heli then have to pay another £70 for upgrades just to get it to fly like it should have out of the box. I have had to change just about every bearing due to very poor quality. The whole tail end is now aftermarket as the original was absolutely useless due to cheap and nasty parts. Bearings would collapse after one flight. Tail blades would shear off in normal flight regularly and the tail vibration was horrendous. All the drive gears had a lifespan of maybe 2 flights untill I upgraded to metal gears. I never actually had a trouble free flight till after I had upgraded it all and indeed it is now a sweet flying heli.

Horizon replied after some time with this.


I have read your email with a great deal of regret, I can assure you that Horizon Hobby takes a great deal of pride in all its products and carriers out a great deal of testing and R&D work before releasing any product onto the market.
If we have any doubt then the launch would be delayed until the issue was rectified, we would never knowingly release a product with issue’s, when the occasional product develops an issue after launch then we will and do anything necessary to solve the issue and correct the problem, our reputation for quality products and the after service back up we give is second to none in the RC industry.

We have heard of issues with the Blade 130 and received a number of service returns, some we can trace to flight induced issues such as crashes and others obviously appear to be faulty from new in which case we have repaired or replaced under warranty.

Although the numbers are higher than normal they have not been outrageously excessive so we have been dealing with them on a one to one basis to the satisfaction of the customer involved.

It is very obvious from the list of kit that you have that you have been a loyal and happy customer and user of Horizon products up until this point so it disappoints me greatly that this should have happened to you. If there is anything we can do to help you please do not hesitate to contact us.





As you can see there is no mention of a proposed solution. No mention of my expensive outlay to sort the problem etc.

I will not be buying any more Horizon products. I would rather spend my money on quality goods with good customer support. Something that I have not received from Horizon Hobbies.


Not Impressed.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:18 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by squidger View Post
I have bought alot of horizon products in the past including DX6i DX7 DX8 radios. Eflight mcx msr msrx mcpx blade sr ultra micro beast ultra micro sbach ultra micro extra 300 Carbon Z Yak 54 etc etc.

Recently I bought a blade 130x. It has got to be the worse put together heli I have ever owned. The parts are really cheap. Horizon Hobbies have had a record number of returns of these helis. If you google 130x problems you will be reading reports all night. It seems Horizon have sold these expecting the public to test them whilst paying for the privilege. I emailed Horizon telling them of my problems and explaining that I didn't expect to pay £170 for a heli then have to pay another £70 for upgrades just to get it to fly like it should have out of the box. I have had to change just about every bearing due to very poor quality. The whole tail end is now aftermarket as the original was absolutely useless due to cheap and nasty parts. Bearings would collapse after one flight. Tail blades would shear off in normal flight regularly and the tail vibration was horrendous. All the drive gears had a lifespan of maybe 2 flights untill I upgraded to metal gears. I never actually had a trouble free flight till after I had upgraded it all and indeed it is now a sweet flying heli.

Horizon replied after some time with this.


I have read your email with a great deal of regret, I can assure you that Horizon Hobby takes a great deal of pride in all its products and carriers out a great deal of testing and R&D work before releasing any product onto the market.
If we have any doubt then the launch would be delayed until the issue was rectified, we would never knowingly release a product with issue’s, when the occasional product develops an issue after launch then we will and do anything necessary to solve the issue and correct the problem, our reputation for quality products and the after service back up we give is second to none in the RC industry.

We have heard of issues with the Blade 130 and received a number of service returns, some we can trace to flight induced issues such as crashes and others obviously appear to be faulty from new in which case we have repaired or replaced under warranty.

Although the numbers are higher than normal they have not been outrageously excessive so we have been dealing with them on a one to one basis to the satisfaction of the customer involved.

It is very obvious from the list of kit that you have that you have been a loyal and happy customer and user of Horizon products up until this point so it disappoints me greatly that this should have happened to you. If there is anything we can do to help you please do not hesitate to contact us.





As you can see there is no mention of a proposed solution. No mention of my expensive outlay to sort the problem etc.

I will not be buying any more Horizon products. I would rather spend my money on quality goods with good customer support. Something that I have not received from Horizon Hobbies.


Not Impressed.
Did you contact Horizon for the next step? One issue is the problem with customs back and forth between the USA and your location.

It's been the uniform experience around here in the USA that Horizon Hobby has very good top of the line service, especially with their radios.

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Old 09-21-2012, 12:42 AM   #3
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I, as Denny, have found Horizon US to be THE one to beat in service. Sorry your off their brand - too bad as they are kicking everyone's rear end with product IMHO.

Agree that a refund request might be in order - then watch the forums. They gang are pretty honest about what works well and what to stay away from.

Just sharing a counterpoint.

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Old 09-21-2012, 09:56 AM   #4
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My experience has been great. I bought a HobbyZone micro Champ and 3 days later the elevator servo quite. I was told by the seller to contact the manufacture(Horizon Hobby) I sent them an email and their response was I received a brand new complete Champ yesterday.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:56 PM   #5
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The OP is apparently in the UK where, in my experience, Horizon is very good but not as free with service/replacements as the US company .

OTOH I'd be interested to know who he thinks he'll find that will provide better goods and service. In many years I haven't found anyone consistently better than Horizon, even over here .

Steve
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:48 PM   #6
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I haven't had a problem with their customer service but I have given up on all their umx planes due to the maintenance issues of their esc/servo/rx/bec bricks.

I have two polecats and a umx p51 with bad bricks.

I was so disappointed with the problems people encountered with the new Carbon Cub. I really wanted one of those!
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Old 09-21-2012, 03:07 PM   #7
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You're right squidger, you have a reason to be more upset now, due to their response. A company should know better than disagree with and fail to acknowledge a customer's issues with a denial. That's more offensive than being ignored, as it shows arrogance. They would be better off to agree with you and do nothing, than to disagree with you and do nothing. In a number of cases the rc community has more than clearly identified inferior products and levels of quality that the community deems unacceptable. My LHS stated that they cringed when selling these to people, as they wanted to recommend better Horizon helis, but needed to sell these also. When problems become clear, there is no point in denying the issue/s to the customer. A better answer would be for them to acknowledge the shortcomings of the product and that they have learned from the experience. An apology would be in order to those who received a less than satisfactory product. Based on the response that they gave squidger, I could not see him ever buying another heli from them. He has no reason to expect any better from them.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:21 PM   #8
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Horizon is generally great about taking care of actual problem if contacted directly.
Horizon is HORRIBLE about EVER acknowledging that ANY of their products have a defect or problem. Some of their stuff has known problems. They frequently replace it with a phone call, but often never bother to actually FIX the issue. It takes some SERIOUS CONCERTED effort from the community to do that and they'll deny it the whole time.

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Old 09-21-2012, 05:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by flydiver View Post
Horizon is HORRIBLE about EVER acknowledging that ANY of their products have a defect or problem. Some of their stuff has known problems. They frequently replace it with a phone call, but often never bother to actually FIX the issue. It takes some SERIOUS CONCERTED effort from the community to do that and they'll deny it the whole time.
One quick check to their website or Facebook page shows this is false. Their CEO even addressed the issue.

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Old 09-21-2012, 06:07 PM   #10
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Fact:
- the Radian came out with a defective prop. The RC community had to beat up on them for months before they came out with a new prop. They never admitted there was a problem, they just distributed replacements and produced a new one.
-The old Super Cub throttle nib would break off all the time. You could get an entire TX just by calling them > never fixed it.
The SC battery box was designed for NiMh. The new lipo BARELY fits. There have been frequent complaints from newbies not even being able to get the thing in. The wires are often damaged by insertion and removal. Modding the stupid battery box is often the first things people do.
-the SC was designed for 7-cell NiMh. They use the same ESC for 3S as they did then. The thing is on the ragged edge of disaster all the time. They still recommend the old NiMh 10x8 slow fly prop for floats. That puts the ESC WAY over the top. They burn up all the time.
-Most of their low end chargers for their trainers are, well, awful.
-Many DX5E have a known cut-out flaw. Still not addressed.
-ACT is garbage. It ruins more planes than it saves. But it's a great marketing ploy so they keep it. Try to actually find ANYONE that will recommend it.

The list can go on. I realize no company nor their products are perfect. I, as a consumer, am annoyed at the kind of stubborn reticence to admit actual problems in spite of significant evidence and weigh my buying habits accordingly.

I acknowledge they make a lot of really great products. I also freely admit they support their customer base better than the vast majority of RC companies. They do not fix problem products or admit problems unless serious pressure is brought to bear.

Website and CEO statements? That's pure marketing BS, politics at it's finest.

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Old 09-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #11
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They have had problems with some of their products not all obviously but they will swear blind they havent had many problems. My local hobby shop sold 8 130x helis. Six were returned. If you were manufacturing a product and 75% of them were returned to you faulty it would ring serious alarm bells normally but Horizon just say that they have had a few problems. They even put out a video showing that the tail vibration on spool up was completely normal and should just be throttled through till it stops vibrating. My heli stopped vibrating the moment I replaced the tail bearings with quality items and is as smooth as silk now.

Horizon also had major issues with the MCPX when it came out. Remember the main blade holders letting go after a few flights. Remember that horrible frame vibration which resulted in a really bad wobble in flight. If they were making a great heli with quality parts that worked well I would be the first to praise them for it. If any one disbelieves the 130x problems look here.

https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&outp...w=1600&bih=909


Alot of unsatisfied customers about.

Anyone else manufacturing such a poor quality heli and selling for top money wouldn't get away with it.

Horizon do manufacture some great quality items. Their Spektrum radio range is absolutely superb for example.

They just need to be man enough to acknowledge when they f**k up and stop taking peoples hard earned cash for inferior quality items.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by flydiver View Post
The list can go on. I realize no company nor their products are perfect. I, as a consumer, am annoyed at the kind of stubborn reticence to admit actual problems in spite of significant evidence and weigh my buying habits accordingly.
Correct - they have quality issues with some products. My comments are directed at your comment they NEVER publicly address those issues. That is simply incorrect.

Originally Posted by flydiver View Post
They do not fix problem products or admit problems unless serious pressure is brought to bear.
Not true - the NEVER even release the first batch of Hawker Hurricane issues due to quality issues. They DESTROYED the entire first batch and we waited months (like 8 more) for the plane to arrive "fixed". No public were ever involved and not even one was sold (from the first batch).


Originally Posted by flydiver View Post
Website and CEO statements? That's pure marketing BS, politics at it's finest.
Sure take a look at the Facebook site - they have a CEO statement.

https://www.facebook.com/HorizonHobb...50841894958935

That sure does not seem like a company trying to hide...

I don't think it is marketing BS or politics. I think it is a company with integrity.

One other point - note their web site very clearly links to "Important Product Bullitens" when they have issues - especially safety with products.

I attached a couple of examples below. The Radien and the DX6i POT issue - two biggies - both addressed pretty openly in my mind. BOTH more importantly fixed in future releases.

In our industry - I still think they lead in that regard. Look how long it took Futaba to Admit a couple of issues with their new 2.4GHz system (Zero GUID). That was political.

The sad thing is that CEO statement from May talks of a quality issue and they still have some issues today. They will need to get on that and mind the shop. People all vote with their wallet.

Mike


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Old 09-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #13
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Quick update. I said in an earlier post that my local hobby shop had sold 8 of these and returned 6 with problems. I was at the flying field this morning and found out that the 2 remaining have been returned for a refund so that's 100% have gone back. At least theres an element of consistency there.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:56 PM   #14
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LATEST

Mine has now gone back to Horizon for a refund. Problem is the others returned for refund took 2 months. Wonder how Horizon would feel if I asked to buy a heli off them but didn't want to pay for 2 months.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by squidger View Post
LATEST

Mine has now gone back to Horizon for a refund. Problem is the others returned for refund took 2 months. Wonder how Horizon would feel if I asked to buy a heli off them but didn't want to pay for 2 months.
In the USA, last year I bought a riding lawnmower from Kmart. It was an absolute POS, took it back, they agreed and gave me a refund.

But, it took the credit card guys 7 weeks for it to get credited. Interesting, when I bought it, it came out of my card in a day.

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Old 10-12-2012, 03:12 AM   #16
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Denn, they still have kmarts?

All joking aside, the creditcard companies are rediculous. I signed up for a "free" visa card, only to be charged $22 a month, in automatic, no notice fee's.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #17
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Maybe the Horizon UK person wrote you a personal message of regret instead of a form-type response. It would have been better if the person had given you an RMA number or suggested you call for one and send the item in for evaluation/repair/replacement. I'd give them another chance to help before slamming them on forums. They are on of the few who have really tried to satisfy us big spenders.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by E-Challenged View Post
Maybe the Horizon UK person wrote you a personal message of regret instead of a form-type response. It would have been better if the person had given you an RMA number or suggested you call for one and send the item in for evaluation/repair/replacement. I'd give them another chance to help before slamming them on forums. They are on of the few who have really tried to satisfy us big spenders.
Agreed.

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:49 AM   #19
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I have had "ZERO" Problems with Horizion Customer service. I received a faulty aileron servo on a 4-Site. Called and had a new 4-Site within 3 days. Horizon Rocks!!!
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by E-Challenged View Post
Maybe the Horizon UK person wrote you a personal message of regret instead of a form-type response. It would have been better if the person had given you an RMA number or suggested you call for one and send the item in for evaluation/repair/replacement. I'd give them another chance to help before slamming them on forums. They are on of the few who have really tried to satisfy us big spenders.
Trust me I gave them lots of time and chances before posting here. They have now had my heli back for more than 2 weeks for a refund and funny enough I have heard nothing and my local shop that I returned it through has also heard nothing and cannot seem to get any info out of them. As I said, When I bought it I paid immediately so why do I have to wait ages for a refund.

This is not good Customer Service.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #21
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I wonder if HH does not refund a purchaser's money if item has been used. I expect that they would do the typical "repair or replace" thing in your case. Two weeks time including mail flow time, etc. is not a long turnaround time. It may be that support is slower in the UK than here in the US. I, like most, have been pleased with HH support over a number of years and hope that their handling of this matter is fair and expedient. Getting a refund from HH and/or your dealer may not happen.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:27 PM   #22
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Bit catch 22 really isn't it. How do you know if an item doesn't work untill you try it. Therefore all items that are returned faulty will have "been used". Horizon are legally bound to refund my money as the item is clearly not fit for purpose and statutory rights state that if an item is not fit for purpose the buyer is entitled to a full refund. It's not whether I will get a refund that is the problem here it's when.

"Two weeks time including mail flow time, etc. is not a long turnaround time."

There is no mail flow time to consider here as the rep collected it from the shop. I know these things do take time but this is too long to wait for a refund.Nothing is being repaired here. There are no parts to wait on delivery for.They have my heli and my money and I have nothing. Does anyone think this is right? I paid by credit card so a refund should take seconds electronically.Indeed if I were not prepared to give them a chance to rectify this issue I would have just claimed back on my credit card and let them fight with Horizon for their money. I have spent literary thousands of pounds on their products if you include my DX6i DX7 and DX8 radios + all my Horizon Models.
My Carbon Z yak was bought at the same time as my DX8 and a couple of micro models from Horizon and at that time I walked out of the shop with £15 change from a grand. I consider myself to have been a loyal customer and this is not the way loyal customers should be treated. Not if you want return custom.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:07 AM   #23
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Just to show "the other side of the coin" so to speak, I recently had quite the opposite experience with Horizon Hobby in the UK.
A couple of weeks ago, just as I was ready to maiden a new scratchbuild I knocked my DX 6i off the totally overcrowded workbench as I was setting the controls up. Just like buttered bread it landed stick down and wrecked the left hand stick and pot.
I Emailed the Horizon UK office at 8-30am asking for help regarding how to return it for repair and by 11-30 am I had a return from Glenn Doman their product service manager instructing me where and how to return it to them for repair.
By 12-30 PM it was packed, in the post, on on its way to them.
After one working day had passed, the following morning, I received another E Mail from Glenn Doman telling me that my TX had been repaired and would be dispatched to me as soon as I had phoned up and paid by credit card.
Cost breakdown
Left gimbal £13-13
Postage £6-00
VAT £3-83
Total £22-96

A couple of days later it arrived in the post looking and functioning like new.
I was staggered by this level of service which quite frankly I would never have expected from any company operating in the UK where customer service is generally abysmal.
Not detracting from the experiences of others at all, just telling how it was for me. Fantastic service!!
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #24
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That's how after sales service should be and I'm glad that you experienced that. I have also in the past had good service from Horizon and too praised them for it on these forums which is obviously good advertising for them. I'm a firm believer that praise should be given when due and also people should know when to avoid companies that aren't playing fair.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by squidger View Post
That's how after sales service should be and I'm glad that you experienced that. I have also in the past had good service from Horizon and too praised them for it on these forums which is obviously good advertising for them. I'm a firm believer that praise should be given when due and also people should know when to avoid companies that aren't playing fair.
Spot on! Couldn't agree more!
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