Do We Have Shills Here Also?

[TopSpin]

Originally Posted by wedoitall

hey man , im pretty new at flying and flying forums. but ive been around other forums for years. this forum has been extremely helpful, in just the short period of time ive been around here. if i wanna learn something or need help, this is where ill be coming. also have sent my very few buddys i have that fly here also.

Glad to have you here, you will find plenty of helpful and experienced builders and flyers here. This has always been one of the best go to sites for Electric RC info and still is.

If you wan't sexy web GUI go to RCG and get snotty answers from frustrated jerks who aren't half as smart as they would like you to think they are. They just want to tell you how smart they are hoping you'll be impressed instead of answering your question.

Or, you can come here and get real help from a great bunch of RC hobbyists who actually know what they are talking about.

[wedoitall]

Originally Posted by TopSpin

Glad to have you here, you will find plenty of helpful and experienced builders and flyers here. This has always been one of the best go to sites for Electric RC info and still is.

If you wan't sexy web GUI go to RCG and get snotty answers from frustrated jerks who aren't half as smart as they would like you to think they are. They just want to tell you how smart they are hoping you'll be impressed instead of answering your question.

Or, you can come here and get real help from a great bunch of RC hobbyists who actually know what they are talking about.

yea i already figured that out. and their gui is cluddered.

[crxmanpat]

Gentlemen,

The question posed was do we have shills here too. Please keep the "other forum" bashing out of this thread. There are many members here who are also members of "other forums". Some of the comments made above could be contrued as offensive to some of our dual members, and we don't want that here.

I understand the topic lends itself to discussing other forums and the way they handle shills, but please keep it at that, discussion. Bashing just to bash is not cool.

Thanks.

[wedoitall]

sorry if i offended . wasnt trying to bash. just saying that i like it here alil better. i also like the other forum also. i check there quite often.

[crxmanpat]

I was not directing that at anyone specifically, just to all participants in general. While we do like to be considered the best forum around, we also do not like senseless bashing of other forums.

[hillbille]

I always thought that a "shill" was an employee of a company that "posed" as a customer in order to attempt to get other real customers to purchase lower quality or higher priced items that the company either could not sell on merit alone or became overstocked on due to the item being poor quality.

When I was growing up - (for argument sake - let's say late 1950's) it was pretty much a common practice. The shill was anonymous. Should his/her TRUE identity become public knowledge - they were out of a job! The idea was to "fool" the general public customers with tactics of both "hard" sell and "soft" sell for as long as possible. Companies and chain stores often worked in unison utilizing a "group" of shill customers and moving them around often enough to throw off suspicion.

Once the public became outwardly "aware" of the practice and basically labled it as "DISHONEST" the use of "shills" dies out save for the illegal gangster activities like gambling. In casinos "shills" are still in use today but in a much more subtle way. No one likes to feel "taken" so the shills must be low key.

For the purposes of "advertising" most people that "review" items for magazines are technically "shills" of that manufacturer. Their "pay" is the item itself. Their employment is absolutely tied to the "good" review (soft sell) of the item. Honest reviews of bad or faulty items only occur ONCE. Then that reviewer is hardly ever heard from again and certainly not reviewing any item from the "bad" company!

There are "shills" depending upon HOW you define the term everywhere. People that belong to the "other" forum - come here - register - log in and begin to post and in most every post there is a reference to the "other" forum or a "link" driving people here to there.

Hillbille

[crxmanpat]

Originally Posted by Gohmer

What do you call "members" that are here mostly to promote their own retail RC business?

We call them Members.

That's why we allow signatures, and have specific rules that apply to vendors. Vendors, and employees of vendors, must post their affiliation in their signature (for example, see mine below). And Vendors are not allowed to post regarding new items any more than once every seven days.

They are, however, allowed to answer specific questions posed to them on their threads as often as they like. For example, let's say I post a New Product thread about a new plane I developed. If other members ask me questions about the plane, I can answer them the same day, I don't have to wait another 7 days before posting on that thread.

I wish all RC forums allowed signatures, it would solve so many problems.

[hillbille]

No.

At least not unless you do so to ALLOW that vendor to post the exact same answer - AND - that answer is consummately an AD for the vendors specific product.

Most especially if you FOLLOW up with direct comments degrading OTHER vendors or manufacturer products of a similar nature.

And absolutely if it is "known" you are compensated by the original vendor for your "questions" and "comments" via cash, credit or merchandise.

Oddly enough once a "person" is outed AS a shill usually their credibility goes right down the toilet and everything they have said - good, bad or indifferent becomes suspect to most honest people. On the other hand the "vendor" in question rarely loses much because the market (in this instance I mean customers) know the product and act accordingly.

For me it's how I was brought up. No one can ever TAKE my integrity. I can give it away but it can not be taken away.


Hillbille

[Murocflyer]

Originally Posted by hillbille

I always thought that a "shill" was an employee of a company that "posed" as a customer in order to attempt to get other real customers to purchase lower quality or higher priced items that the company either could not sell on merit alone or became overstocked on due to the item being poor quality.

When I was growing up - (for argument sake - let's say late 1950's) it was pretty much a common practice. The shill was anonymous. Should his/her TRUE identity become public knowledge - they were out of a job! The idea was to "fool" the general public customers with tactics of both "hard" sell and "soft" sell for as long as possible. Companies and chain stores often worked in unison utilizing a "group" of shill customers and moving them around often enough to throw off suspicion.

Once the public became outwardly "aware" of the practice and basically labled it as "DISHONEST" the use of "shills" dies out save for the illegal gangster activities like gambling. In casinos "shills" are still in use today but in a much more subtle way. No one likes to feel "taken" so the shills must be low key.

For the purposes of "advertising" most people that "review" items for magazines are technically "shills" of that manufacturer. Their "pay" is the item itself. Their employment is absolutely tied to the "good" review (soft sell) of the item. Honest reviews of bad or faulty items only occur ONCE. Then that reviewer is hardly ever heard from again and certainly not reviewing any item from the "bad" company!

There are "shills" depending upon HOW you define the term everywhere. People that belong to the "other" forum - come here - register - log in and begin to post and in most every post there is a reference to the "other" forum or a "link" driving people here to there.

Hillbille

That is very interesting. I never knew that. Thanks for sharing it.

I can see it happening over at RCG, but the hobby king shills there are WAY to obviuos. Simply click on "see other posts by xxxxx" and it is plain as day. I'm not sure who they think they are fooling. It's sad and funny at the same time.

Pat,

If I say I ONLY see this on RCG, that is not bashing is it? I'm just stating a fact. I don't want to cause any problems here.

Frank

[crxmanpat]

Frank,

No, that is not what we would consider bashing. What we don't like are the blanket statements or name calling about all users of a certain site, things like that.

[crxmanpat]

Guys,

Let's please try to keep this about shills at WF, and not drag "other" stuff here. We're just fine without it.

A couple unnecessary posts were deleted as they were not relevant to this discussion.

Thanks!

[Old Fart]

Get 'em Pat!

[crxmanpat]

Ha ha Jeff. I don't want to come across as a hardnose, but we just don't want junk from other forums brought in here.

PS - Are you going to try to make it out to Big Jolt in Chino next weekend?

[Old Fart]

Yeah, as a member of about a half dozen of the OTHER forums, I appreciate that. WF is the best at what WF is supposed to be best at - but neither it (or any of the others) is a "be all, do all" as Grandpa used to say.

I'm going to try to make Big Jolt....

[crxmanpat]

Originally Posted by Old Fart

I'm going to try to make Big Jolt....

If you do, be sure to stop by the booth and introduce yourself. Be nice to put a face with the name.

[Old Fart]

Originally Posted by crxmanpat

If you do, be sure to stop by the booth and introduce yourself. Be nice to put a face with the name.

I'm going to shoot for the 3rd. IIRC, we're having a housefull on the 4th for "early Thanksgiving" (we're in NYC over Thanksgiving for the Giants/Packers game)

[Old Fart]

Pat, will you be there Friday?

[crxmanpat]

Yes, I plan to arrive Thursday evening, will be set up and ready to go first thing Friday morning.

[Old Fart]

Looks like Friday will be my chance - SWMBO has plans for me on Sat...

[Rockin Robbins]

I say double the pay of all the moderator staff!

[crxmanpat]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I say double the pay of all the moderator staff!

Sounds like the company I currently work for.

"This year you will get double the raise you got last year."

Double of nothing is still nothing.

[Murocflyer]

I'll be there Sat morning around 10. I believe they have a dinner planned as well in the evening. I need to check into that. Dinner and auction if I recall or am I thinking about something else.

Frank

[Old Fart]

Yup. http://www.pvmac.com/index.php

My club - but I'm only popping out Friday to harass Pat

[Murocflyer]

Originally Posted by Old Fart

Yup. http://www.pvmac.com/index.php

My club - but I'm only popping out Friday to harass Pat

Thanks!

"Dont miss the Big Jolt Hangar Banquet & Auction on Saturday night held in the company of the real P-51D Lady Alice, an AT-6, a Stearman under restoration, and theN3N-3 Yellow Peril where Awards will be handed out and some fantastic new RC stuff will be auctioned off. Served up will be Buffalo Wing Appetizers, Tri-Tip Steak and Chicken along with and ice cold beer, wine and soft drinks This is . Tickets for the Dinner are $20 each and not included in the Pilot Entry Fee"

[Joe 1320]

I've run into this issue a little bit here. Some of the same shill / trolls that run amuck over on RCG do the same there here only to a much lessor degree. The other site has gotten ridiculous in certain forums to the extent that posting in a particular vendor section is like getting a root canal without anything to deaden the pain. The shills / trolls flock to each other's aid in order to discredit and harass people while heaping praise on their beloved master, while the average person gets points piling up because they find themselves in a position of having to defend themselves. It's sickening. I am so glad that the mods on here have much better control over this forum. It speaks volumes on the subject of integrity. The shills are here, they just don't run rampant like elsewhere.


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