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Old 10-01-2012, 03:43 AM   #26
Don Stackhouse
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The problem is that there is a shallow slope to the upper edges relative to the bottom edges, to make more room at the nose for the aft end of the motor (needed to allow for the downthrust). If you put the cuts in the middle as shown in your pic, the resulting top edges will not be straight any more. Those locations and angles will also make the splices more prone to fracturing in a hard landing, as was discussed earlier. For a proper "scarf" joint you need a much shallower angle. What you show will still act like a "butt" joint. Staggering one side relative to the other as shown will not have any significant structural benefits in this particular case.

The attached pic taken from my CAD system shows what I had in mind. It was drawn for a .5" extension, but the same principles still apply. You will still get a slight angle at the top edge of the forward splice, but the top of the inserted piece can be cut to match the slope of the top edge of the original doubler. The thickness of the hatch at the aft end will be a little thicker as a result, but not enough to be a problem.


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Old 10-01-2012, 01:38 PM   #27
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Steve,
I extended the doublers about 1.5", but didnt make the scarf cut way back where Don suggested ( comprehension skills are getting worse ). So to increase strength, i added 6"X1.25" x1/8" bracing to inside, hopefully motor wont fly off on its own; also extended the triangle stock at bottom a few inches


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Old 10-02-2012, 01:26 AM   #28
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K8ZFJ
You may still have problems with the knose on a hard landing guy ?
That scarf joint is an essential splice for the stress of the knose in the launch
and landing both , at least that is what a friend of mine told me about another
sailplane some time ago .
George
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:40 AM   #29
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Don and all... Thanks for the input..

I'll go with Don's plan, but with a length of 1.5 in added on. I don't think I'll push the cut quite that far back. I'm still undecided between using rubber bands or screws to hold the wing on. I'll try the screws and if I don't get them in with the wing nice and straight, then I'd like to fall back to the bands. So the extra holes for the dowls to hold the wing on are a definite maybe.

I received the needed electronics from HeadsUpRc today. I finally have made a little progress today. I setup my DX7 for this plane! Number 15 already. I used a Delta wing setup so that the Rudder and Elevator mix for the V-Tail is on the right stick. I also mixed the gear output to the Flaps. I Y'd the spoiler servos into the gear channel and hooked the tail servos into the aileron and elevator slots in the receiver and I'm good to go! All of this took longer than it should have, but I figured it out...

Tomorrow, my son is supposed to return my box of glue and the couple of clamps he borrowed. Hopefully I can make the cuts on the doublers tomorrow and get underway! Opps... need to clean off my work bench and make room first....

Steve


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Old 10-02-2012, 03:49 AM   #30
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hi Steve,i'm always checking in on your build.just haven't said anything,but shes looking nice! thoughts on the extended nose for sailplanes. if you were bungee launching the force would pull hard on the fuse. but that motor should pull this bird straight up so don't fret stress on launches. as far as landings go,the real hard landings are when folks are trying to bullseye a target and things can land quite abruptly.I'm posting a picture of my skimmers battery location as at builds end there was no need for any added ballast.your nose compartment is the same tight space. i also only do short burst of wot for rocket verticals and then power off motor.so if thats how you fly ,cooling the ep components won't be a big issue.

your landings will be long glides that should land flat if all goes well,but I'm glad i stayed with the rubber bands on the 72"ws skimmer.it's saved the wing more than once as she isn't bolted down. I've only hit terrafirma hard once and no damage done,but the wing had slid of the fuse a bit.[plastic bolt would have sheared]

i'm enjoying your build thread Steve.keep up the good work and the great pictures. stu


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narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Dimeflyer View Post
K8ZFJ
You may still have problems with the knose on a hard landing guy ?
George
George,

When i have a hard landing, its usually lawn-dart style !
I've repaired a 72" skimmer fuse with old brush motor in past with similar type scarf cut, and it lasted long time....until i tried lawn-dart approach.

Randy
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:06 PM   #32
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Yha I know -we aren't suposed to do those kind of landings but they hapen every once in a while - I have had to many in the last three years so I don't like them at all, I have cosidered changing my handle to crashestoomany !
I have goten a few good flights in but to often I get knocked down by heavey gusts
and crash on landings so I am a little discusted with the weather around here !
That's enough crybaby for the day from me guy so will just read and watch !!
George
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:22 AM   #33
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Only baby steps today... Cleaned off the workbench and laid thin (1/4 in ?) 1ft x1 ft cork board squares over the top so I can pin things down when needed. I have about 2 ft x 4ft of usable area on my work bench now. Large enough to work on the fuselage.

I thought that I did not want to build directly on the original plans. They are wider than my building area and knowing me I’d destroy them. So I made 8.5 x 11 copies and tiled them together. This was easy to piece together because of the straight lines that run down the fuselage marking where the bottom 3 in strip balsa should be.

My ply is still resisting getting straight. So a little more weighting and bending is in order. It should be OK by tomorrow. I can actually get started if my son will ever return my glue and clamps!!! He had some excuse about seeing his girlfriend tonight…. Ahh to be 20 again.

Steve


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Old 10-03-2012, 04:37 AM   #34
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You might try some heat on that plywood. BTW, is that Lite ply or birch ply? The color looks darker than the Lite ply the doublers are made from. I do not recommend birch ply for the extensions, the difference in stiffness and other properties will cause problems down the road. Use 1/8" Lite ply, like the doublers are made from.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:22 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by k8zfj View Post
George,

When i have a hard landing, its usually lawn-dart style !
I've repaired a 72" skimmer fuse with old brush motor in past with similar type scarf cut, and it lasted long time....until i tried lawn-dart approach.

Randy
Well you must have fixed it pretty good since it holds up to my less than perfect landings......didn't help the motor none though with my abuse it finally puffed its last. BL going in soon. Trying to decide between a firepower 10 sport or an exceed rocket 3020. Both are about 1000 KV.

AMA # 944164

Some people hang pictures in their homes, I hang guitars in mine. I guess I can hang a few planes in the garage too!
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse View Post
... BTW, is that Lite ply or birch ply? The color looks darker than the Lite ply the doublers are made from. I do not recommend birch ply for the extensions, the difference in stiffness and other properties will cause problems down the road. ....
Don, good eyes! Yes it's a sheet of birch ply I was going to use. Thanks for warning me. I thought it felt a bit heavier. I did find some light ply and GULP... I cut the doublers. I cut the first one by measuring a 30 deg angle and cutting where I thought looked safe. I then used the dowel holes for locating pins and put a couple of drill bits through them. I used the cut doubler as my guide to cut the other one. Seemed to work out OK! I then cut one long piece of the extra ply, keeping the cuts as parallel as I could. I cut them at a width that should give me an extra 1.75 in on the nose. I have trimmed them some, but as you can see in the picture they will need a little more. I may just cut and sand them after they are glued together.

I have also laid out the bottom fuse pieces and the formers. I marked the center of the balsa wood sheet pieces and drew a line down the middle. I also marked the center of the formers. I also marked where the formers should be located on the balsa sheet. All of this work is per the plans.

I have not glued anything yet. I thought I would still work a little on the doubler fit first.

Steve


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Old 10-05-2012, 03:38 AM   #37
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I've now glued the formers to the bottom fuselage piece and glued the extensions into the fuselage doublers. I used thick CA for everthing. Hopefully I'll get my titebond back soon. I also noticed that I had reversed the 1st two formers... That's one issue with building on a partial copy of the plans. You can't see the all of the hints and reminders on the plan sheet. I'm glad I double checked.

Steve


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Old 10-05-2012, 04:14 AM   #38
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Yes, the front end of the left doubler is a little longer than the right one, to set up the correct amount of right thrust.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:22 AM   #39
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It's been a busy weekend here. Homecoming weekend at our high school. My daughter's a senior, so it's a big deal... We also celebrated my dad's 81st birthday today. I hope I'm still as active and healthy as he is when I'm 81.

Well, I still don't have my clamps or my titebond... But I made a little more progress. I sanded the inserts in the doublers smooth and test fit the motor. All seems like it should fit really good. I found out that the little clamps I still have can still hold the doublers to the formers, so I glued them in. I used thick CA per the instructions. My little experience tells me to use thick CA or epoxy when glueing ply to ply. So I'm still in the middle of the second page of instructions. I should be able to finish this page off, but I need my titebond and clamps when glueing the balsa sides on.

Steve

Also... Go Tigers!


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Old 10-08-2012, 11:01 AM   #40
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I would use medium or thick C/A for gluing on the balsa sides. If you use Titebond, the water in the glue will cause the bonding surfaces of both the balsa and the lite ply to swell, which will make them want to curl away from each other. Yes, massive amounts of clamping (all over the surface) can overcome this, but a water-free adhesive avoids the problem altogether.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:30 AM   #41
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He is right on that one guy the tight bond is ok for small planes but can cause broblems on thies type of projects , Balsa acts a little different when you use T.B. on
it the cyno glue is the best to use on the ply to balsa joints !
The next best is epoxy glues -30 min on ply joints and balsa to balsa can be 5 or 15
min. to get a good joint !! oh yes do not use the fast set stuff for the cyno joints
you need it to penatrate the wood as best it can so think slow seting time !
George
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:23 AM   #42
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I’ve made some progress again.

This is all straight in the order from the plans... Since I have never built a glider before, I'm sticking with the instructions.

I’ve glued the wing hold down blocks into place with thick CA.

Next is the hardwood/basswood stringers. I first layed them out and marked where they go on the bottom balsa sheet. See Pict one. This told me where to put the glue! Then glued into place with thick CA.

This completes page 2 of the fuselage instructions. Yea!

After this dried, I added the fuselage sides with Med CA. As you can see from my pictures, I still only have my small Harbor Freight clamps…. Seems OK with using CA. Thanks Don and George for telling me to just stick with CA. With only these clamps, CA is best.

Next is triming the sides down. I hope I can do that yet tonight as well.

Steve


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Old 10-12-2012, 03:55 AM   #43
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I cut the extra balsa off of the fuselage sides and sanded it smooth. It's begining to look like something. . Next was adding the triangle stock in the nose. I already sanded back the bottom right piece to allow for the motor wires.

I strung the pushrod guide tubing through the fuselage and then taped an end. Pulled it tight from the other end and taped it down again. Now it's nice and straight in the middle. I tacked it in several places from the bulkhead behind the wing to the back. This area will be covered up soon. The plans show the servos under the rear part of the wing, but it would be easy to relocate them in the front it I need to. So for now the tubing runs to the front until I can figure out where they need to be for balancing the plane.

Steve


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Old 10-12-2012, 04:29 AM   #44
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A note about what's coming soon:

The inside corners formed by the edges of the doublers, F1, the sheeting and the triangle stock act as guides when sanding the nose to shape. Basically when all the inside corners just disappear, you're done. I've attached a pic of the finished shape. Note the cooling air intake ducts formed by the slots in th enose block on the front face of F1.


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Old 10-13-2012, 04:14 AM   #45
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Thanks for the heads up Don. You're right. There are a couple of spots that don't seem to have much wood...

I first remembered to open up the holes for the dowel rubber band wing hold downs... I'm glad I remembered to do this before gluing the top on. I just hand spun a drill bit to go through the balsa. The ply was already laser cut.

I then cut the 1/4 in nose top piece into two pieces. The larger rearward piece is a hatch and will be removable. The front ends up part of the nose. The only hard part was to get the angle of the front piece correct so that the hatch was nice a square up against it. I've got it pretty close.

The rear top needed to be trimmed down as well. About 2 in was removed so that it ends up right on the 2nd to last former. Everything was glued with thick CA. The front hatch was just tacked with 4 small drops in the corners.

Tomorrow will be a cool day! Trim and shape.... With the front top being 1/4 in thick, there will be a lot to trim and sand.

Steve


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Old 10-13-2012, 11:28 AM   #46
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It might be easer to cut the sheet stock befroe you start glueing things together guy ?
That way you don't have so much trimming to do after you glue it together ?
George
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:08 PM   #47
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George, you are probably correct, but this is how the instructions tell you to build, so that's what I am doing.

I have trimmed the excess sheeting off. Then sanded all sides flat, then rounded the edges. I like what I see! The one thing I noticed in the instructions was that they asked you to temporarily install the motor while the top hatch is still glued on. I did my basic sanding then cut the hatch free. I then installed the motor and drew around my spinner. I now know how much nose shaping I need to do. (A lot!) I think that you just want to remove the balsa and just san down to the firewall. That's my plan anyway.


Now off to make dinner for the family! Scratch built pizza, YUM!

Steve


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Old 10-14-2012, 12:05 AM   #48
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Well I'm getting stuck sanding the nose. Maybe my spinner is just a little small. It's 40 mm if I remember correct. It is just over 1.5 inches. To get the profile I want I'd need to dig into the firewall. I don't think I'm supposed to do that. So I'm done for tonight. Not sure if I'll just fill in the rest or sand deeper.

Steve


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Old 10-14-2012, 01:59 AM   #49
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steve the spinner looks fine and it looks great with the way the nose is beveled to meet it. just a little more fine sanding to round the edges. putty and covering and it'll soar with the eagles.

narrow is the place to land...wide is the space to crash....choose the narrow way!
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:06 AM   #50
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Do Not sand any deeper guy leave the firewall just as it is and fare the fuse as best you can and leave it as good as it will get with out diging into that knose or motor mount !
You will end up loseing the strength were you need it most ,if you want to make it a little better add a block 1/2 way down the front slopes to the motor mount and sand it a little cleaner and let it be from there !
I tryed to do what your thinking about on an RC plane a long time ago and when I put it in the air the motor pulled lose and dissapered into the woods about 100'
or so away and disapeared for ever !
Do not do as I do only do what I say guy !!
George
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