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Old 10-04-2012, 09:58 PM   #1
KenK
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Default Which 2.4GHZ transmitter?

While I am not new to RC or Electric RC aircraft I have been away from it for about 5-6 years. Or more time does fly!!!
Now I see there is the 2.4GHZ radios??
I picked up a Flyzone Dr1 RTF with it's own transmitter.
I also got the Anylink adaptor for my JR Sport SX600 transmitter.
So my question is...What is going on here with the new (to me) 2.4GHZ and what should I think of getting for a new transmitter if I want to expand into larger planes again??

If I am in the wrong forum let me know as well.
I have been searching for days and could not find exactly what I need to know.
Thanks;
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:13 PM   #2
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man, this is a loaded question!! i'm new to, but i've been researching transmitters for quite a while now. i really would like to upgrade mine (spektrum dx5e) so i'll give ya the highlights of what i've found during a month or two of searching.

it's best to stick with the top brands, spektrum, futaba, jr, hitec.
if your buying a transmitter, make SURE it's a computer style radio not the cheap no computer (like my dx5e)
always get more transmitter than you think you need. this keeps you from buying twice!
budget will make the decision alot easier-- if your budget is $200 the choices narrow alot, if your budget is $500 there are more options.

once you find a brand you like, a budget you like, then make sure you figure in receiver prices for future planes.

spektrum seems to be the leader in sales (maybe or maybe not in quality), and with the parkzone line of BNF planes this makes the spektrum a decent choice.

the first thing is what's the budget? second is do you want new or used? with this info alot more information could be answered.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:13 PM   #3
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:07 PM   #4
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+1 on Hog's advice. The brands he's listed are all very good. Spektrum seems to be the TX for the masses. I have actually heard some good things about the Frysky 9x as well. It's only about $100.00 and there's a big users community out there. That covers the low end. I'm a Futaba guy but I'm not getting sucked-in to the "which one is best" debate. The best one is the one you choose and stay with.

How much programming functionality to you want or think you will need? They all have Dual rates, multiple channels, timers, switches everywhere, expo, mixes, blah, blah. Some have telemetry which IMO is kind of gimmick. Plan on flying heli's in the future? Make sure then that it's equipped for both palnes and heli's For me, I like as much model memory as I can get. Dial it in , keep it simple. Next ?

If you're looking for the best deal, sometimes you'll see them in the classifieds on RCG or RC Universe or ebay. Sometimes, you might find a steal from someone getting out of the hobby or upgrading to something with more capability.

Good luck on your choice ! I'm sure you'll make the right one.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:08 PM   #5
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If you have a club field nearby, especially if you plan to fly there, hang around and see what people are using. If there is a problem with a certain brand, word will get around pretty quick. You'll also have access to people who can help you sort out any difficulties.

The Anylink is fine for small park flyers but it's only rated to 1000 ft. You'll want a full range radio for anything that's larger, faster, or expensive. I agree that you should get the best radio you can afford - even if it's used.

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Old 10-05-2012, 12:58 AM   #6
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Default Not sure about local clubs!

We have a lot of gas guys around. But I fly pretty much alone. I am done with gas airplanes. I converted my Goldberg Cub a few years ago to electric.

I will want to go up to maybe 3-5' wing span. I do have a 1300' strip where I used to fly my real Clip Wing Cub out of.

I really do not understand the new 2.4 options.
Seems there 2 types.

I wasn't really asking anyone to say one brand over another just what kind og transmitter I should get for the kind of flying I want to do.

Thanks for the hints;
KenK
Originally Posted by pmullen503 View Post
If you have a club field nearby, especially if you plan to fly there, hang around and see what people are using. If there is a problem with a certain brand, word will get around pretty quick. You'll also have access to people who can help you sort out any difficulties.

The Anylink is fine for small park flyers but it's only rated to 1000 ft. You'll want a full range radio for anything that's larger, faster, or expensive. I agree that you should get the best radio you can afford - even if it's used.

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:36 AM   #7
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Default Which way to go?

Lot of stuff out there.
I have a few old vintage Futaba transmitters.
And a Jr Sport SX600 now 72mh. That is how long it has been since I flew.
Later;
kenK

Originally Posted by hoghead5150 View Post
man, this is a loaded question!! i'm new to, but i've been researching transmitters for quite a while now. i really would like to upgrade mine (spektrum dx5e) so i'll give ya the highlights of what i've found during a month or two of searching.

it's best to stick with the top brands, spektrum, futaba, jr, hitec.
if your buying a transmitter, make SURE it's a computer style radio not the cheap no computer (like my dx5e)
always get more transmitter than you think you need. this keeps you from buying twice!
budget will make the decision alot easier-- if your budget is $200 the choices narrow alot, if your budget is $500 there are more options.

once you find a brand you like, a budget you like, then make sure you figure in receiver prices for future planes.

spektrum seems to be the leader in sales (maybe or maybe not in quality), and with the parkzone line of BNF planes this makes the spektrum a decent choice.

the first thing is what's the budget? second is do you want new or used? with this info alot more information could be answered.

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:38 AM   #8
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Default Budget!!!

Originally Posted by hoghead5150 View Post
1
Oh yes...limited budget. I don't want to spend so much on a radio I don't have enough to buy a plane!!!
I am on SS and no other income. Just wanted to have a bit of fun!!
I can fly these micros in my back yard. But I do have a 1300' strip to use if I want to.

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Old 10-05-2012, 02:03 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by KenK View Post

I really do not understand the new 2.4 options.
Seems there 2 types.

I wasn't really asking anyone to say one brand over another just what kind og transmitter I should get for the kind of flying I want to do.

Thanks for the hints;
KenK
There are more than two types, pretty much every brand has a specific protocol, locking you into their receivers. Futaba and Spektrum compatible receivers are available and much cheaper which is important if you end up accumulating several planes (especially if they are smaller, park flyer types) and you don't want to have to swap receivers.

It would help if you described the kind of flying you want to do.

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Old 10-05-2012, 02:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by KenK View Post
Oh yes...limited budget. I don't want to spend so much on a radio I don't have enough to buy a plane!!!
I am on SS and no other income. Just wanted to have a bit of fun!!
I can fly these micros in my back yard. But I do have a 1300' strip to use if I want to.
If you are planning to fly a few different models, Spektrum has something called "Model Match" where the transmitter and the model currently loaded into the transmitter HAS TO match the model airplane.

If you have a Piper Cub programmed into the transmitter, and the model is a Extra, the receiver won't move the servos. That way you can't take off with the wrong model, with perhaps reversed ailerons.

If you can swing it, a Spektrum DX7i is a very good radio. I've had mine for 5 trouble free years. Just upgraded to a DX8 for more features, but that old DX7 is still around as a backup transmitter. For what it's worth, Spektrum has one of the best warranties in the business. My other club members have had very similar results with Horizon Hobby.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65573

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Old 10-14-2012, 01:21 AM   #11
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As long as we're talkin' radios, what's the difference between FHSS, and FASST radio systems, and the advantage/disadvantage of one versus the other?? The stock FMS TX's I have are both FHSS Digital proportional...what's the difference between these, and a "computer" TX besides multi-model programming with the computer rig?

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Old 10-14-2012, 01:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by matiac View Post
As long as we're talkin' radios, what's the difference between FHSS, and FASST radio systems, and the advantage/disadvantage of one versus the other?? The stock FMS TX's I have are both FHSS Digital proportional...what's the difference between these, and a "computer" TX besides multi-model programming with the computer rig?
I've tried looking on the internet, and really can't find any good explaination on just what FASST is, or how it works. Don't know if it's true or not, but several internet sites suggested Futaba FASST and FHSS receivers are not interchangeable with the FASST transmitters.

One guestimation is that FASST is a version of FHSS where FASST is also a frequency hopping type of system with additonal error checking and so on.

One thing that is interesting though, is this Futaba website:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/techsupport/receiver-tips.html

(Modern day integrated circuits will work in temperature ranges that the average person would not fly in. Spektrum put out an ad several years ago where they put one of their receivers inside a enviromental chamber and heated it up til the receiver quit. The receiver finally quit after the environmental chamber melted the receiver's plastic case.)

Spektrum DSSS and DSMX systems are compatible. The Spektrum DSMX is a type of frequency hopping system, with the wide bandwidth of the Spektrum DSSS systems.

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Old 10-14-2012, 02:05 AM   #13
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If your only going to fly one or two planes, I don't feel the need for a computer radio. I've had my dx6I for nearly a year now, and the only beels or whistles I use ocassionally are the timer, and flaperoins. I really don't use either feature anymore, other then to show others the options that it comes with.

I have actually started flying on an old futaba fm 6channel, and don't miss spectrum in the least, nore have I had anymore probems.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:32 AM   #14
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So basically, FHSS/FASST/DSSS/DSMX are all just different ways to change frequency? Kinda like Truncated, or "Trunk" radio, which basically does the same thing. OK, I understand that aspect. From my experience with FM, or even AM, re-binding in the event of signal loss is a LOT quicker than 2.4 GHz. My Helicopter runs on 27.145MHz AM, and it loses signal just about every time I fly it (Double Horse 9104), but when it re-binds, it's like right now, if it was 2.4, the Heli would most likely hit the ground before it re-bound.

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Old 10-14-2012, 03:09 AM   #15
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I think kyleservicetech was referring to the Spektrum 2.4ghz DSM,DSM2 and DSMX band width technology used in all of their DX5e, DX6i, DX7s, DX8, DX10t and DX18 radios and various recievers that are interchangable;
http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/Produc...Receivers.aspx

There are also knock-off recievers like the HK Orange recievers that are compatible with any DSM2 system and considerably less expensive than the original Spektrum, which everyone I know using them have been pleased with.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Sat_Port_.html

Like mentioned above, Spektrum can be purchased many places with reliable warranty and customer service, especially if you deal with Horizon Hobby.

If you get serious and join a club, you'll find that the old FM 72mhz systems are rapidly being phased out.......but if your'e like a few loners here who fly out in the middle of nowhere, by themselves, only own a couple of planes that just require 4ch applications and who are having trouble wrapping their brains around a self contained programable radio.......then an inexpensive crystal FM system will serve your needs well.....

Regardless of the brand, ultimately the 2.4ghz systems will be your best choice......more control options, less frequency conflicts, no club hassles and hundreds of purchase options and upgrades.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by matiac View Post
So basically, FHSS/FASST/DSSS/DSMX are all just different ways to change frequency? Kinda like Truncated, or "Trunk" radio, which basically does the same thing. OK, I understand that aspect. From my experience with FM, or even AM, re-binding in the event of signal loss is a LOT quicker than 2.4 GHz. My Helicopter runs on 27.145MHz AM, and it loses signal just about every time I fly it (Double Horse 9104), but when it re-binds, it's like right now, if it was 2.4, the Heli would most likely hit the ground before it re-bound.
The FHSS (Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum) system actually goes back to World War II. With the current ability of the modern computer chips, its fairly easy to design technology.

The DSSS system uses a very sophisticated algorithm to modulate the 2.4 Ghz signal, and it uses high level mathematics. The DSSS wide band system can be hit right in the middle of its frequency by a narrow band signal, and not really be affected by it. This stuff is not even possible without computer chips. One guy did build up a DSSS (Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum) system using transistors. The project resulted in a circuit board that would not come close to fitting in a giant scale model.

The current production Spektrum radio systems rebind after a receiver battery voltage drop below 3.2 Volts DC in under a second, I've checked it on my AR7000 receivers. On that note, Spektrum does have a monitor that shows signal loss during flight. On many flights, my DX7 and DX8 systems showed zero loss of signal. Not surprising, these 2.4 Ghz radio systems have a range of some 2 or 3 miles. What is critical on any of these 2.4 Ghz receiver systems is a solid battery supply for the receiver. IMHO, much of the reported issues with these 2.4 Ghz receivers is a direct result of using an inadequate receiver power supply.

Trying to figure this DSSS system out is not easy. Take a look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-...pread_spectrum
http://www.sensorsmag.com/networking...sss-radio-1115
And Spektrums DSMX system is quite a bit more complex than the DSSS systems that uses both DSSS and FHSS modulation.

Can't find any similar info on Futaba's FASST system. Suspicions are its a fancier or faster version of the FHSS system.

As you've indicated, all these various radio systems are doing is varying the frequency of the 2.4 Ghz system by the different types of transmitted signal modulation processes. That's either by directly varying the 2.4 Ghz frequency itself with the FHSS system, or by modulation techniques of the transmitted 2.4 Ghz signal, a process that by nature also varies the 2.4 Ghz radio frequency.

As others in this thread have pointed out, if you are flying alone far from anybody else, those 72 Mhz radios work just fine. In fact, some of my club members still are flying them. But, join a local club, and you're likely to find that most of these club members have gone to 2.4 Ghz, and for good reason.

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Old 10-14-2012, 03:46 PM   #17
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I'm in the same boat as OP. I am back in the sport after a long break. I have a DX7 (DSM2) radio, and interested in possibly upgrading to spread spectrum with telemetry. No hurry, but I'm having a good time researching the topic. I found videos by this guy helpful:

He is very opinionated and endearingly curmudgeonly, but he shows the radios and their features and explains some of the technical aspects of the different ways the mfrs have implemented 2.4 GHz communication. Search his channel for reviews of the JR Xg8, Aurora 9, and DX8. Then go to the field or hobby shop and get the different radios in your hands. They FEEL different and you want one that fits your hands and way of holding the controls. Just the thickness of the radio makes a big difference to me.

Read the threads about the "Spektrum Wars" at your own risk. There is endless partisan controversy about whether Spektrum DSM2 (and even DSMX) radios are the cause of lots of crashes or not. The RCModelReviews guy (link above) talks about that a little.

Bottom line. It looks like almost any of the spread spectrum modern radios are going to be fine. It's more a matter of personal taste and what price and features you want.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:07 PM   #18
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What is critical on any of these 2.4 Ghz receiver systems is a solid battery supply for the receiver. IMHO, much of the reported issues with these 2.4 Ghz receivers is a direct result of using an inadequate receiver power supply.
What about dedicated power for JUST the receiver? Would there be a sacrifice in weight/CG doing this? It would seem to be the best bet for that sort of thing NOT happenening...
Edit: disregard the weight question, I'm still half asleep! Find out what the voltage requirements for the receiver are, which can't be much, and go from there. What's the deal with "satellite systems"? A fail-safe?

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Old 10-14-2012, 04:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by matiac View Post
What about dedicated power for JUST the receiver? Would there be a sacrifice in weight/CG doing this? It would seem to be the best bet for that sort of thing NOT happenening...
A dedicated power supply is ok but possibly no more reliable than a good quality BEC. Unless the battery was pretty large you might actually have worse voltage sag issues than a decent BEC. Also you have to remember to charge the separate battery, and with time the battery may get worse at holding it's charge, so there is more scope for operator error.

If you want to really increase reliability then you probably need to look at dual redundant systems, like a BEC powered off the flight battery AND a separate battery pack. But that's probably going too far for most people except on the really big stuff.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:28 PM   #20
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An good article explaining all this radio jargon: http://www.3drcforums.com/content.ph...dio-Technology
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
An good article explaining all this radio jargon: http://www.3drcforums.com/content.ph...dio-Technology

Yup
That is a very good article! Now, just exactly what is Futaba's FASST system

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Old 10-14-2012, 06:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by matiac View Post
What is critical on any of these 2.4 Ghz receiver systems is a solid battery supply for the receiver. IMHO, much of the reported issues with these 2.4 Ghz receivers is a direct result of using an inadequate receiver power supply.
What about dedicated power for JUST the receiver? Would there be a sacrifice in weight/CG doing this? It would seem to be the best bet for that sort of thing NOT happenening...
Edit: disregard the weight question, I'm still half asleep! Find out what the voltage requirements for the receiver are, which can't be much, and go from there. What's the deal with "satellite systems"? A fail-safe?
The important part of all of this is to use a quality DC supply for your receiver that can handle the servo requirements. IMHO, those ESC's that use a linear type BEC should never be used on any model with more than 2 LiPo cells. Escpecially if it uses more than two servos.

Many of the newer ESC's are going to those switching power supply types of BEC's such as the Castle Creations ICE series of ESC's.

As for me, I've been using the Castle Creations 10 Amp uBEC on all of my models for the past five years with complete success. These models range from smaller 400 watt size to three kilowatt size systems.

The giant scale models in my collection of models using the Hacker A60 series motors are using both the Castle Creations 10 Amp uBEC and a two cell A123 battery pack as a dual power backup system.

Take a look:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63779
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63794

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Old 10-14-2012, 10:47 PM   #23
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Www.futaba-RC.com

Arguably the best Spread Spectrum technology available anywhere on the planet. 8FG Super available for $ 315. Nice !

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Old 10-15-2012, 12:03 AM   #24
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LOL......I seem to remember this quote a few posts ago "I'm a Futaba guy but I'm not getting sucked-in to the "which one is best" debate. The best one is the one you choose and stay with." by some guy from Keller, Texas.....lol

"Arguably" the best about face so far.....lol...and we say we aren't biased.....what ever you can afford, fits the application and makes you feel good is the "best" by most opinions!
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:14 AM   #25
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Www.futaba-RC.com

Arguably the best Spread Spectrum technology available anywhere on the planet. 8FG Super available for $ 315. Nice !

Still wonder about this web page from Futaba and their FASST receiver. To the best of my knowledge, no other RC supplier puts requirement for protecting their radios from the hot sunshine.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/techsupport/receiver-tips.html

DennyV
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