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Old 10-05-2012, 04:10 AM   #1
IdkWhatPlaneToBuy?!?!
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Default 2nd PLane?!?!

So my dad and I recently decided to get into the hobby or RC Planes...We bought a hobbyzone champ and a few extra batteries from horizonhobby.com......we at first crashed a lot but now we are not toooo bad, haha.....i was wondering what a good second rc plane would be? i was looking at the P-51 Mustang Mk II PTS RTF, but i heard that it was actually not a good second plane but a more advanced one....(is that true?)..i have heard a lot of good about the PZ T-28 Trojan........Any and all advice, tips, ect. are greatly appreciated..Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:54 AM   #2
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From a Champ to a P51 is a huge step up. A Champ is a very basic 3 control plane, very light. Any of the warbirds are several steps up from where you are. If you and Dad are learning on your own it may be fun but also a longer journey with added $$.
I would read as much as I can regarding basic trainers with T/R/E/A. I would also seek out a trainer and club if you can. That will be the fastest route to get to the P51.
Are you staying with electric or thinking of wet fuel. Either route will start the $$ flowing for batteries planes chargers motors esc servos etc. Fuel also requires an initial $$ outlay.. A 4S 3300 mah battery is a far cry from a small 1s battery of a Champ. That's just 1 battery and with 2 flying the plane a bare minimum would be 4 batteries a good quality charger to charge 1 while the others are in use.
To stay interested and to have fun take smaller steps.
I'm sure others will give you some good planes to study and consider.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:59 AM   #3
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Hi
The Trojan would make a fine 2nd plane imho
Take care
Yours Hank


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Old 10-05-2012, 05:06 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by IdkWhatPlaneToBuy?!?! View Post
So my dad and I recently decided to get into the hobby or RC Planes...We bought a hobbyzone champ and a few extra batteries from horizonhobby.com......we at first crashed a lot but now we are not toooo bad, haha.....i was wondering what a good second rc plane would be? i was looking at the P-51 Mustang Mk II PTS RTF, but i heard that it was actually not a good second plane but a more advanced one....(is that true?)..i have heard a lot of good about the PZ T-28 Trojan........Any and all advice, tips, ect. are greatly appreciated..Thanks in advance!
I'd be more inclined to go with a model like a Piper Cub with ailerons. The main reason is the major difference between a model with rudder/elevator/throttle and a model with rudder/elevator/aileron/throttle.

If, on a landing approach you give a wrong command with a model with only rudder/elevator, most will happen on a reasonably set up model is landing in the wrong place.

Give a wrong aileron command on a model equipped with them can quickly roll your model upside down. You won't have time to restore proper orientation to save the model.

Some of those aileron equipped models can roll at rates exceeding once per second. And, I've had several that rolled several times per second.

A Piper Cub type of high wing model will usually have a much slower roll rate, and won't fall out of the sky if you fly to slow and so on.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:52 AM   #5
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if your only flight experience is with the champ i would suggest the hobbyzone super cub as a next step. still 3 channel, but bigger, has more power, is a great flier, and can be easily modded to brushless, ailerons, floats, all kinds of things.

if you have a club locally, and can get some flying help, then i would suggest going with a high wing trainer like the eflite apprentice, flyzone sensei or such. these are 4 channel planes, but fly very well.

if you decide to go with a low wing style plane like a warbird, i wish ya good luck, and let us know how it turns out!
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:24 PM   #6
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Starting with a Champ was a good idea.....jumping into a war bird or any low wing with ailerons at this time may be a very frustrating experience....and diminish your confidence and enthusiasm.
I started out with the J3 Piper Cub 4channel after flying heli's.......once I learned how to get it off the ground (Cubs take a quite a bit of practice and finesse), flying and landing after afew hours became confortable.
If I had it to do over, I would have jumped on a Slow Stick........it will provide you with build experience, C/G alignment, can be set up as a 3 or 4ch rudder and elevator, 100's of motor, prop, battery choices and can be modified to fly 3D........and best of all, due to it's size and weight, won't cost an arm and leg to repair after mishaps. It is not as easy to fly as the popular pusher prop gliders which are good (1st, 2nd) planes....and it will prepare you better for a more advanced scale trainer like a T-28 or J3 Cub.

Ya, I'm a biased Stick flyer, but as a first or second 4ch.....you'll be hard pressed to find anything as inexpensive, easy to build, and give you years of relaxing fun as a Slow Stick.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:54 PM   #7
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+1 on the PZ T-28 Trojan. It was my second plane and have had no regrets. Still have her. Have souped her up . Great flying plane and not intimidating at all. Rock solid. Can fly slow or fast with no bad tendencies. Downside is the nose gear on grass fields. I've modded that out also but alot of guys simply hand launch them.

If you've mastered the Champ, it's time to move on to ailerons. Just MHO.

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Old 10-05-2012, 06:21 PM   #8
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Further to my 1st post..I went to a Sensei after a Champ. I was getting lessons from my club trainer. Straight to Aler. with no buddy box. Don't use them at our club. The Sensei is a nice floater. Lots of threads on RCG on it. Big plane. If I was to do it again I'd go with an Apprentice 15 foamie. Trainees here got 15 minutes a flight on a 3700MAH battery. Comes with a small charger. Didn't care much for the elastic bands on the wings though. Caused damage if not careful.. As stated a high wing is more forgiving and still has enough umph to give you some trick flying.
I'm also looking now at a T-28 lots of versions out there, PZ Durafly, Dynam FMS..800mm,1200mm 1400mm..sheesh..
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:11 AM   #9
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touche,

Nicely done. Congrats ! Yes, there are several versions of the T-28 out there. If you want all the bells and whistles like flaps, retracts, lights, sequencing doors, etc. they are there. Only thing to be careful about is that alot of that stuff breaks rather easily and puts quite a load on the bec.

Cheers,

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:52 AM   #10
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Thanks to all of you for your advice.....so a t-28sounds like stood plan?
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:43 AM   #11
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The Champ is not so easy to modify to push it further as I see ... (this is only me commenting ...) :

I used to teach people on trainers and then showed them how to modify that trainer to extend it's envelope .... You'd be amazed what you can get a trainer to do.

One of the best all rounders IMO for any person looking for second plane is any of the 4 - 5ch Cessna style models. They are high wing - so tend to be reasonably stable, they have ailerons that work !, and most like the SKyartec basically will near fly out of the box.
I have a Skyartec and despite it being an intermediate model suitable for graduating trainee ... I love it. It flies nice and easy or I can throw it around crazy and it just laps it up. Mine is well over a year old now ... flown in howling winds, rough fields, ploughed fields, smooth surfaces etc. - it still is in one piece and still looks reasonable.
Flies on any 3S lipo from 1000 - 2100mAh ... battery sits right on the CoG ...

For sheer bang for buck ... it sure has my vote.

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Old 10-06-2012, 12:36 PM   #12
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I also started out with te champ. I would suggest, as a second plane, a 4-channel Nitroplanes Dynam Hawk Sky or Hobby King's Bixler or something similar in a 4-channel plane. This teaches you 4-ch operation with a much larger plane and these kind of planes are great trainers. A third plane might be a large Cessna 182 or a T-28 if you have access to very short grass or a paved landing and take-of strip.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:40 PM   #13
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Just to say that my Cessna 182 hand launches a treat ... so not necessary for paved / smooth surfaces ... OK landings tend to flip over - but she puts up with it !

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Old 10-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #14
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Conventional wisdom is to steer clear of low wing 'warbird' type planes until you have at least a couple of easier planes under your belt.. However I think some of the lightweight foamy warbirds out there changes the rules. Some really are so stable and easy to fly that they could be used as a first aileron model, or even a basic trainer, no problem. The one I have in mind specifically is the PZ Corsair, this model is more stable than many high wing trainers. The only 'issue' with the Corsair is that the undercarriage is a bit weak and even an experienced flyer will probably knock the landing gear off if landing on grass (I did). The Corsair hand launches real easy though.

If the PZ T-28 is anything like the Corsair then you should be ok.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #15
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The problem with this question - 2nd plane ? ... is the bias that will inevitably get into recc'd models. I know I'm biased to what I have and fly.
The T28 - I think is commonly recc'd because so many buy it based on the recc'd ... so it builds up a following.
I would steer clear of most warbirds because they have some nasty habits that can catch those unaware ... A person just of a trainer ... used to slowing right down for landing would likely end up cartwheeling his low wing warbird doing same.
It's part of the reason I used to help modify peoples trainers to graduate on ... a model they were happy with .. but upped in performance / capability by simple work.

The sellers particularly online are no help to novice about suitability of model ... most claim a begginner can fly - when in reality some are a handful for experienced guys !

The next step up allows the novice to approach closer to the type or style of model he aspires to. That indicates that specific recc'ds may not fit the ideal they are looking for.

I mentioned in another similar thread to this that a friend of mine bought a 3D profile model .. it sat on his bench for ages while he flew 450 helis. Then one day with no prior fixed wing flying ... launched and struggled but survived first flight. The model was so forgiving ... I believe because it was so capable if pushed ... but he kept calm and small movements and flew a beauty. He changed battery and put it straight back in the air ..
I stood amazed ... within a few flights he was prop hanging it. He reckons the heli time helped with the delicacy of stick movements ...

But it illustrates that various models can do the biz ...

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Old 10-06-2012, 04:22 PM   #16
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This is what I'm looking at now

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...bnf-PKZ4480#t1

Not making any purchases till closer to Christmas so keep the suggestions comming.....havent been yet, but before I buy anything I will also go to my local flying club...we haven't been yet...we have been flying our champ in about 15 acres of grass with some trees near our house...so I'll certainly see what our local ppl have to say....thanks again everyone
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #17
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+1 on the PZ Corsair too. I've watched 2nd plane beginners fly it at our field and it's similar to the T-28, just looks cooler with the bent wings. The scale blue color can make it a little more difficult to see and the retracts tear up on grass fields. But ?

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:40 PM   #18
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Further to my past comments as well...lol
The Sensei bit the dust one sad day I already had an Alpha 450 Sport and ended up getting my Wings with it. It was a smaller top wing than the Sensei. It is also more active when you adjust the throws. Being older it took me a while to smarten up my dumb thumbs but the Alpha was easy to repair. We had 12 guys training 2 nites a week. I envied the apprentice guys because they got 12-15 minutes of flying each time up whereas I only got 6-7 minutes.
As a note to you. I have 3 WW1 GP planes, SE5a,Spadx111 and Albatros hanging off the ceiling, never been flow yet till I get comfortable flying. I also was pumped to get a WW11 faster than a speeding bullet really cool looking plane. Fight the urge and get the basics under your belts. You'll have more fun down the road when you feel confident in your abilities.
As was stated also..lots of bias and opinions as we are all different and like different things.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
The Champ is not so easy to modify to push it further as I see ... (this is only me commenting ...) :

I used to teach people on trainers and then showed them how to modify that trainer to extend it's envelope .... You'd be amazed what you can get a trainer to do.

One of the best all rounders IMO for any person looking for second plane is any of the 4 - 5ch Cessna style models. They are high wing - so tend to be reasonably stable, they have ailerons that work !, and most like the SKyartec basically will near fly out of the box.
I have a Skyartec and despite it being an intermediate model suitable for graduating trainee ... I love it. It flies nice and easy or I can throw it around crazy and it just laps it up. Mine is well over a year old now ... flown in howling winds, rough fields, ploughed fields, smooth surfaces etc. - it still is in one piece and still looks reasonable.
Flies on any 3S lipo from 1000 - 2100mAh ... battery sits right on the CoG ...

For sheer bang for buck ... it sure has my vote.

Nigel
Hi Nigel
I agree on your assessment of the Cessna 182 I have the Art tech version and mine flies so smoothly and is quite tame but can still pull some aerobatic maneuvers
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank


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Old 10-06-2012, 09:02 PM   #20
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After reading some of your comments.....this looks intriguing

http://www.parkzone.com/Products/Def...ProdID=PKZ4600


Has anyone flown both the pz corsair and t-28 that can compare?.....I'm kind of leaning towards the corsair now because they seem pretty similar and both have good reviews...but I like the look of the corsair better

This is a review from a guy who owns both..he prefers his corsair
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=918867
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:48 PM   #21
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Sorry I cant compare them both but my flying buddy (who is a beginner) has a Corsair and I was amazed at how stable it is. When properly trimmed it will fly all by itself. It's one of the most stable low wing planes I've ever flown and it's more stable than most high wing aileron trainers, no doubt due to it having tons of dihedral.

For my personal taste it's actually too stable, and it has noticeable Dutch Roll (tail wagging) due to it's high lateral stability. But for someone with less experience it would be hard to beat IMHO.

I'd probably take the wheels off and get someone to hand launch it, unless PZ has beefed up the landing gear mount on the newer versions?
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:00 PM   #22
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Thanks....I found a guy locally that either stocks it or could order it....might not got it till Christmas though
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:04 PM   #23
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The new Corsair does have much beefier landing gear. It's hard to imagine doing much damage with even a hard landing. The plane is also heavier, stiffer, less floaty and has a noticeable torque roll to the left that you need to watch when it lifts off. I'd say the T-28 is easier to fly, though I agree that you've got to love the look of the Corsair.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RWK View Post
The new Corsair does have much beefier landing gear. It's hard to imagine doing much damage with even a hard landing. The plane is also heavier, stiffer, less floaty and has a noticeable torque roll to the left that you need to watch when it lifts off. I'd say the T-28 is easier to fly, though I agree that you've got to love the look of the Corsair.
Ahhh.. The one my buddy has is the old version, so my previous comments (and that review) need to be taken with caution as the new type Corsair may be significantly different.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:20 PM   #25
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Okay.....thanks again....imma make sure I talk to the guy at the stor (I hear he's been doin it for over 50 years) and I will make sure I talk to the ppl at a local flyin place
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