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Old 12-01-2012, 10:37 PM   #1
wobbles99
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Default Ultra stick 60 conversion

Hey guys,

Haven't been around here as of late as I've mostly been flying nitro and helis. I'm thinking of putting together a larger electric though and this forum was the first thing that came to my mind.

Here's the story of this ultrastick:

first it was my father in laws. He flew it a couple times with an os 61 fx and the converted it to gas with a zenoah g 20. It flew like crap with that much weight so it was put on a shelf for a few years.

Then last year I had a crash that left me without a plane with less than a week before a big funfly. So long story short we shoe horned a saito 150 up front and I flew the season out with it. It's a beast with that much power! Unlimited vertical at 3/4 throttle. It will actually accelerate at full throttle and full vert. Easily 100 mph top speed.

Now the downside. To get the CG right I had 6.5 oz's on the tail and all up weight is a porky 8.5 pounds. The 16" prop up front trims the grass when it's running. Even with a low smooth idle it creeps forward all the time. I have to come in full crow to slow it down enough.

So now I want to go electric with it. I still want ridiculous power but hopefully it will come out lighter with less stress on the airframe.

So here's what I have on hand: I have a turnigy 100 amp ESC sitting here and a zippy 5s 45c 4400 lipo. I ordered a NTM Propdrive 50-50 580kv for another project that just fell through. It says its rated for 2000 watts but I figure 1000-1500 watts is more realistic. I'm thinking of running either a 14X9 three blade or a 15X8 2 blade. I also have a 14X7-13 on hand to try too.

What do you guys think?

Crash, Burn, Repeat
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:44 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by wobbles99 View Post
Hey guys,

Haven't been around here as of late as I've mostly been flying nitro and helis. I'm thinking of putting together a larger electric though and this forum was the first thing that came to my mind.

Here's the story of this ultrastick:

first it was my father in laws. He flew it a couple times with an os 61 fx and the converted it to gas with a zenoah g 20. It flew like crap with that much weight so it was put on a shelf for a few years.

Then last year I had a crash that left me without a plane with less than a week before a big funfly. So long story short we shoe horned a saito 150 up front and I flew the season out with it. It's a beast with that much power! Unlimited vertical at 3/4 throttle. It will actually accelerate at full throttle and full vert. Easily 100 mph top speed.

Now the downside. To get the CG right I had 6.5 oz's on the tail and all up weight is a porky 8.5 pounds. The 16" prop up front trims the grass when it's running. Even with a low smooth idle it creeps forward all the time. I have to come in full crow to slow it down enough.

So now I want to go electric with it. I still want ridiculous power but hopefully it will come out lighter with less stress on the airframe.

So here's what I have on hand: I have a turnigy 100 amp ESC sitting here and a zippy 5s 45c 4400 lipo. I ordered a NTM Propdrive 50-50 580kv for another project that just fell through. It says its rated for 2000 watts but I figure 1000-1500 watts is more realistic. I'm thinking of running either a 14X9 three blade or a 15X8 2 blade. I also have a 14X7-13 on hand to try too.

What do you guys think?
What's the wingspan and wing area of your Ultrastick? As for ridiculous power, I've got two Hacker A60 motors, one is an A60-16M, the other is an A60-5S. Serious power. But, they run 19 inch diameter 12 inch pitch props. Hackers can actually be run at their rated specifications without issue.

If you have specifications on your NTM motor, one of those computer programs such as www.motocalc.com will come in very handy in predicting model performance. But, motocalc requires accurate motor specs, and some of the cheap imports have rather serious errors in their specifications. Looking at Hobby King, they indicate this motor is rated at 2000 watts. But, most quality motors don't run their rating much over 100 watts per ounce of motor weight. So, at 12 ounces motor weight, that would be around 1200 watts maximum. Once you go far over the effective motor power rating, the motor efficiency drops like a rock, and things get hot. Quick. Hobby King does not provide motor winding resistance. Wish they did, its easy to measure, and its a critical value to know when determining motor quality.

Here is some of the stuff I've done over the years. One of the nicest conversions is my Showtime 50 with a Hacker A50-16S motor, 16X12 APC-E prop, 7S2P A123 battery. That A123 battery is similar to a 6S 4000 Mah LiPo, but about 1/3 more weight. On the other hand, A123's have zero fire hazard, can be charged in 15 minutes, and last a LONG LONG time. Some of mine have over 300 flights, and still have the same performance as when brand new.

Giant Scale electric motors vs Gasoline Engines
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58035

Harbor Freight Gasoline/Alternator Setup
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66066,

Great Planes Giant Big Stick Electric Conversion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65052

Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

Hacker 6S2P A123 powered Models
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686

AEAJR's Site on Electric Power
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18521

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:05 AM   #3
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Just a little update. The motor got here in record time. I was out of town for a few weeks and the post office almost sent it back on me!

I got it mounted up front and paired it with a hk super simple 100 amp esc. Did the first bench tests with a 14X10 zinger, not the most efficient prop but it yields 1100watts of power. I have no way of measuring thrust but holding the plane vertical and throttling up causes the plane to want to pull up out of my hands. Definitely better than 1:1 thrust. Tried a couple two minute full throttle runs and the motor, esc, and batts barely get warmer than room temp.

Removing the 2.5lb engine, throttle servo, and the 6 oz of weight on the tail that I needed to balance the big four stroke out and then adding the ntm motor, esc, and two 2200 5s lipos took the plane from a very hefty and overloaded 8lbs 6 oz to a much lighter 7lbs 2oz so not only will it perform in the air it should float a lot better. I could probably shave a few more oz by running a bec instead of a rx pack but I prefer them for reliability.

I still need to fab up a better mounting plate for the batts and solder in a parallel connector before maiden but hopefully I can get this thing in the air before the new year.

The wing span on this is 66 inches, 927 sq inches of wing area, 17.7oz per sq ft.

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Old 12-24-2012, 03:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by wobbles99 View Post
Just a little update. The motor got here in record time. I was out of town for a few weeks and the post office almost sent it back on me!

I got it mounted up front and paired it with a hk super simple 100 amp esc. Did the first bench tests with a 14X10 zinger, not the most efficient prop but it yields 1100watts of power. I have no way of measuring thrust but holding the plane vertical and throttling up causes the plane to want to pull up out of my hands. Definitely better than 1:1 thrust. Tried a couple two minute full throttle runs and the motor, esc, and batts barely get warmer than room temp.

Removing the 2.5lb engine, throttle servo, and the 6 oz of weight on the tail that I needed to balance the big four stroke out and then adding the ntm motor, esc, and two 2200 5s lipos took the plane from a very hefty and overloaded 8lbs 6 oz to a much lighter 7lbs 2oz so not only will it perform in the air it should float a lot better. I could probably shave a few more oz by running a bec instead of a rx pack but I prefer them for reliability.

I still need to fab up a better mounting plate for the batts and solder in a parallel connector before maiden but hopefully I can get this thing in the air before the new year.

The wing span on this is 66 inches, 927 sq inches of wing area, 17.7oz per sq ft.
If your ESC has a switching type of BEC, it's fairly easy to use both the ESC's BEC and a Castle Creations 10 Amp BEC for dual battery inputs, and in the process save a few ounces of weight.

And, it eliminates the hassle of making certain your receiver battery is fully charged!

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67094

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Old 12-24-2012, 03:33 AM   #5
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I haven't had much luck with castle cremation becs. I lost a heli to one and it cost me big time. If I were to go with a bec I'd probably go western robotic. Just my opinion

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Old 12-24-2012, 03:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by wobbles99 View Post
I haven't had much luck with castle cremation becs. I lost a heli to one and it cost me big time. If I were to go with a bec I'd probably go western robotic. Just my opinion
Strange, I've been using 8 of them for five years, they've been flawless. Guess it's just the luck of the draw.

Another option for the giant scale models is a dual DC supply using the Castle Creations 10 Amp uBEC AND a two cell LiFe or A123 battery as a backup. I've been using this in my two giant scale 3000 watt models with complete success. My onboard battery undervoltage alarm has never gone off after 157 flights with this setup. The on board under voltage alarm goes off if the A123 battery pack has to take over battery supply duties.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63794

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